First All Grain, OG a Bit Under

Hi,

Earlier today I brewed my first all grain batch. I though that everything was going really well, I hit all my temps, nearly got the perfect amount of runoff from my mash tun. The problem is that my preboil gravity and postboil gravity are too low. Reviewing my notes, I can't figure out why. As I said all my temps and volume measurements were fine. My mash tun was great and stayed at 150 for the full hour. Could it be that the grain crush was too coarse? I got my grains crushed at Austin Homebrew. Here are my notes/recipe. I figure it would be the best way to show you my results:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wjkhnsb256rndlp/-IjTFEbLRD

Thank you!

I really only focus on the OG in the fermenter. For low efficiency, it could be crush. But after a few batches, I bet you will find your system and process' average efficiency and then just use that number to build/adjust your recipes to hit the target OG.

No worries. Like Pappers said, it will take a couple of batches to get your process down and to figure out what your systems efficiency is. It's always a crap shoot with a new system. Once you get an efficiency number that is for your system, you can customize the recipe so that you can get predictable results. Weather your efficiency number is 78% or 65%. Knowing the number and working with that, will make your brew days and brews so much better.

Thank you guys, I think you are right. I feel like my process was OK and I just need to get used to my equipment.

One thing that has confused me is efficiency percentage. BeerSmith has two of those: brewhouse efficiency and effective efficiency. Which is the number people use when they talk about their efficiency? Also I am a little confused about calculating the efficiency I got on my last brew. Will BeerSmith do that for me?

Finally, I was hoping I could get at least a 75% efficiency. What are some things I could do to raise that number?

A couple things:

Did you vorlauf when you sparged? That made a huge difference to my efficiency. I went from mid to high sixties to high seventies.

When you're sparging how are you draining the wort from the mash run? You should only open the spigot to a generous trickle, don't open it full blast or you will get channeling in the mash and leave a lot of your sugar behind.

If you do those two things next time I bet you beat Beersmiths efficiency estimate. It has been working for me.

Good luck!

MrMista said:

Thank you guys, I think you are right. I feel like my process was OK and I just need to get used to my equipment.

One thing that has confused me is efficiency percentage. BeerSmith has two of those: brewhouse efficiency and effective efficiency. Which is the number people use when they talk about their efficiency? Also I am a little confused about calculating the efficiency I got on my last brew. Will BeerSmith do that for me?

Finally, I was hoping I could get at least a 75% efficiency. What are some things I could do to raise that number?

Click to expand...

Shoot for 70% and fuhgettaboutit

douggefreshvt said:

A couple things:

Did you vorlauf when you sparged? That made a huge difference to my efficiency. I went from mid to high sixties to high seventies.

When you're sparging how are you draining the wort from the mash run? You should only open the spigot to a generous trickle, don't open it full blast or you will get channeling in the mash and leave a lot of your sugar behind.

If you do those two things next time I bet you beat Beersmiths efficiency estimate. It has been working for me.

Good luck!

Click to expand...

I did vorlauf 2 gallons this time. I did sparge with the valve opened all the way, I think I read somewhere that it doesn't matter how fast you sparge when batch sparging. It does make sense to do it slower, and I will try that next time. Thank you!

Brulosopher said:

Shoot for 70% and fuhgettaboutit

Click to expand...

Yea I'll be shooting for 70% next time. How can I calculate my efficiency?

Also now that I think about it I'm not certain I did my sparges correctly. For my first sparge I simply let the mash finish (60 mins) then added the 1.18 gallons of sparge water to the mash before ever doing a run off. I stirred up after adding the water, let sit 10 minutes, then had my first runnings. Is that correct technique for batch sparging?

MrMista said:

Yea I'll be shooting for 70% next time. How can I calculate my efficiency?

Also now that I think about it I'm not certain I did my sparges correctly. For my first sparge I simply let the mash finish (60 mins) then added the 1.18 gallons of sparge water to the mash before ever doing a run off. I stirred up after adding the water, let sit 10 minutes, then had my first runnings. Is that correct technique for batch sparging?

Click to expand...

I use BeerSmith... it calculates all good and ****

Yea my efficiency was around 59%. Could it have been that I ranoff too quickly and that is why it is low?

To calculate efficiency go into your recipe in beersmith and lower the brewhouse efficiency until it the estimated gravity matches what you measured. That's your efficiency. Mash efficiency is calculated and brewhouse efficiency is the number you can adjust based on your equipments efficiency. This number takes everything into consideration including losses in the mash tun, kettle, fermenter, etc....

For example I like to leave a gallon in my kettle after the boil so I don't get a lot of trub and hops in my fermenter, so my brewhouse efficiency is 62% even though my mash efficiency is about 75%. Anyway, for your next brew you can lower your brewhouse efficiency and then just adjust your recipes to match the OG and IBU of the original recipes. It takes several batches to get your efficiencies dialed in to where you consistently hit your numbers. Consistency in your process is key, so you need to get your batch sparge nailed down.

Runoff rate is not the key to batch sparging efficiency, hitting your mash temp and stirring is the key. Stir the mash a ton at every step of the mash and sparge. After the 60 minute mash start your vorlouf until the wort runs clear then empty the mash ton into your kettle. You should do a double batch sparge so now add half of your sparge water and stir until you can't feel your arm anymore. Vorlouf again and runoff as fast as you want. Add the last of the water and repeat. If you've done good your last runnings will be much lighter than your first runnings. Stir it all together in the kettle really well and then take a sample for BG. If your BG is way off at this point you can always note it for next batch and add a little DME if you have some to bump the gravity.

Don't be afraid to lower your efficiency in beersmith. The only downside to doing so is that you will need to buy more grain to hit your gravities, and grain is pretty cheap in the grand scheme of things.

I run 70% brewhouse efficiency for 10 gallon batches and 62% for 5 gallon batches. These are the numbers that work for me and my process.

Find your own numbers through trial and error....good luck.

MrMista said:

Yea I'll be shooting for 70% next time. How can I calculate my efficiency?

Also now that I think about it I'm not certain I did my sparges correctly. For my first sparge I simply let the mash finish (60 mins) then added the 1.18 gallons of sparge water to the mash before ever doing a run off. I stirred up after adding the water, let sit 10 minutes, then had my first runnings. Is that correct technique for batch sparging?

Click to expand...

To your response on vorlauf, when I vorlauf I only do about two pitchers worth until I can see clear wort in the tubing. You may not need to do two gallons but it's preference.

To your post above: You should drain the mash before adding sparge water. I like to capture gravity of each running to see how my extraction went. So drain that and take a reading if you like.

Then add sparge water, stir with a paddle and wait 10 as you said then drain that off. I have to disagree with whomever wrote the thing you read saying drain speed doesnt matter. IMHO if you drain too quickly you create channels in the grain that allow the wort to easily flow through. The wort will take the path of least resistance which in my opinion will result in leaving a lot of sugar behind.

As I think I mentioned previously, my efficiency and gravity targets have been hit or beaten since I added vorlauf and slowed my drain speed. I used to always hit my temps and miss my gravity until I started slowing the flow down. I only learned that after a friend brewed with me and pointed it out. Maybe worth a try!

Channeling doesn't matter with batch sparge since you are stirring up the grain bed anyway. Maybe if you're not stirring much draining off should be slower, but if you are stirring like crazy then you get the sugars suspended in the water and you want to get that out of the mash ton before they start sticking to the grains again. These are my opinions and I've tried it both ways too. If you're going to drain off super slow you might as well be fly sparging and get even better efficiency. The purpose of batch sparge is to save time at the expense of efficiency.

Thank you guys. From your posts I realized where I made one critical error.

BeerSmith told me to mash with 1.5 qt of water and to batch sparge in two steps of 1.18 gal and 3.11 gal.

I thought that the proper way to do it was to mash, wait 60 minutes, add the 1.18 gal of water, wait 10 minutes then drain.

Next time I will mash, wait 60 minutes, drain, add my 1.18 to my mash tun, wait 10 minutes then drain again (repeat for the 3.11 gal). When I did it the other day I figured you had to add your first sparge water to the mash water because it seems to me like 1.18 gallons will be too little to really stir for my first sparge (after draining the mash). Now I know!

I always set beersmith to split sparge water equally. I always just take whatever sparge water i have left and split in two.

I got close to 80% this past weekend. I changed a few things.

One, I stirred like a mad man, twice throughout the mash process. I extended my mash from 60, to 75 minutes.

Two, when I drained and vorlauf'd, I did it very, very slow. Took close to 1 gallon out, twice what I normally would.. Once I drained it, or close to it. I added 1 gallon of sparge water, and stirred like crazy. I vorlauf'd again, drained it roughly all the way out, closed the valved, and added my other 4 gallons of water. Stirred like hell again, and vorlauf'd and drained.

I slowed my process down. Didn't bang the valve open, and let the process take atleast 30 minutes from 1st to last runnings.

I had roughly 1 quart left in the tun when I tipped it and drained the rest out of it, and it was 1.032 for my last runnings, with 1.080 being my first.

I was spot on for all my numbers, and really attribute it to going slow, and stirring a fair bit during the process. Be sure you don't over sparge, as it's diluting your wort a bit. Drain, and calculate what you need if you don't have Beersmith set up to assist with that. Once I got it dialed in, I was able to dial my process and simple enough I gained a fair bit in the whole process.

MrMista said:

Thank you guys. From your posts I realized where I made one critical error.

BeerSmith told me to mash with 1.5 qt of water and to batch sparge in two steps of 1.18 gal and 3.11 gal.

I thought that the proper way to do it was to mash, wait 60 minutes, add the 1.18 gal of water, wait 10 minutes then drain.

Next time I will mash, wait 60 minutes, drain, add my 1.18 to my mash tun, wait 10 minutes then drain again (repeat for the 3.11 gal). When I did it the other day I figured you had to add your first sparge water to the mash water because it seems to me like 1.18 gallons will be too little to really stir for my first sparge (after draining the mash). Now I know!

Click to expand...

I am fairly new to all grain myself so anyone who can correct me, please do.

But I think Beersmith was telling you to add the 1.18 gal before draining the first time as a mash out and not a sparge. The point being that it raises the temp. to stop conversion and makes the sugar slightly more fluid to aid in draining. THEN sparge with the 3.11 gal.

My understanding is you could do it that way or do away with the mash out to save time and combine the 1.18 gal with the 3.11 gal in one batch sparge.

I can't speak to rate of draining, I plan on playing with that myself.

Ok here,'s my process. I like to keep it simple. First thing is your grain crush is everything! My mill is set to. 032. Next I bring 4 gals of water to whatever temp example 163 for a 152 temp. Stir 30 seconds to 3 mins to get desired temp, Let set for 40mins, stir for about 30 seconds, let grain set for 20 mins. Vorlauf off 2 cups with the valve open a quarter of the way. Clear wort after 2 cups. Next, 4 gals for 10-12 mins, stir only in the when water is poured in. Vorlauf 2 cups quarter turn. Proceed to boil. 91 percent efficient everytime, with cream ales. 71 percent with stouts. This is the process I use, keeps it simple for me. Using a 10 gal home depot round drinking cooler. Don't know if this helps or not.

chumpsteak said:

The purpose of batch sparge is to save time at the expense of efficiency.

Click to expand...

while this may be generally true, my last batch I got about 80% efficiency, and I only batch sparge

Wow, sounds like everyone really just does it in their own way. I'll just have to play with my equipment a bit more and experiment. Thanks for the help!

shadows69, its impressive that you get such high efficiency with a batch sparge! I need to look into getting a mill, what do you use?

You got better efficiency because of your stirring. The rate of draining makes no difference if your batch sparging.

Corna grinder is what I have

I have the same problem, only hot 50% on my last batch. It happened to be a blonde ale so I added a bit of honey to get it to a reasonable og.

I use a corona mill, cooler mlt and just recently started caring about my readings. (shame shame I know....)

But improving my process is why I love brewing!