Copper Manifold / SS Braid.

Does any one have real experience as to which is best for a Cooler Mash tun

I know those who have Braid will likely say Braid and theose with a manifold will say manifold. But can any one qualify by experience rather than just opinion.

I'm going to build a couple of new mash tuns and am trying to decide weather to stick with a 25mm copper manifold.

orfy said:

Does any one have real experience as to which is best for a Cooler Mash tun

I know those who have Braid will likely say Braid and theose with a manifold will say manifold. But can any one qualify by experience rather than just opinion.

I'm going to build a couple of new mash tuns and am trying to decide weather to stick with a 25mm copper manifold.

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I've only used copper, and from what I understand, it's the reason that I'm able to do heavy grain bills. And I'm so friggin stoked about my 83% efficiency over the weekend that I'm no longer concerned about it's effectiveness.

I'm open to advice but I think a manifold is best.
Hence that's what I've used.

My last Brew it around 90% on a batch sparge with a copper manifold.

I just used copper because it's what I had on hand. I'd prolly go with 1 inch instead of 25mm though.





J/K

I started with a stainless braid and then switched to a copper manifold. The main reason I switched was that I kept deforming the braid when I hit it with my mash paddle and I got tired of replacing it.

In terms of how well one or the other works, I was able to drain the tun much faster when batch sparging with the braid - but it left a ton of liquid behind in the tun since it has no syphon. With my drilled copper manifold I leave less than a litre of liquid in the tun (before the liquid soaked into the grain starts separating).

I used copper in my old rectangular cooler. I made a braid for my new round cooler, but never used it...it seems so flimsy (and there are a number of posts here about what people have done to address this) that I didn't feel like investing the extra time...I ended up modifying the dip tube on my SS false bottom to make it fit my new cooler, and abandoned the braid.

If you're comfortable working with copper and don't mind investing a little extra time and $$ up front (sounds like you've built one before, so you know what you're up against); I vote for the manifold.

Actually, I guess my actions vote for the SS false bottom

I've never heard of a stuck mash with a copper manifold. I have with a false bottom and braid.

Here's one I made earlier.

Shouldn't the slots point down so the grain doesn't plug the holes?

The grain husks act as a filter but don't block the holes. Never had a stuck sparge with it and have hit upto 90% with it.

There are some slots at the bottom as well running length ways.

You're right about the bias. I have a braid and havn't had reason to try the manifold. I think it's a close tie between the two if you don't want to pay for a false bottom (which I think has a slight edge).

Fingers said:

Shouldn't the slots point down so the grain doesn't plug the holes?

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And also, so you don't leave as much wort in the cooler...siphon will continue until the liquid falls below the highest hole in the manifold. But if you're getting 90+%, not a concern, and I should just shut up.

Curious, orfy...did your cooler come with the hole in that location (looks like it's way offset to one end on the long side of the cooler?), or did you custom drill it there. And if so, why?

Never had a problem with mine. I'm doing 22-26lb grain bills in a 10-gallon Rubbermaid.

How do you live with yourself with that manifold off center? Heh ;-)

BierMuncher said:

Never had a problem with mine. I'm doing 22-26lb grain bills in a 10-gallon Rubbermaid.

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Are those joints soldered or just pressed together? I would think you wouldn't get any siphoning unless the joints are water tight. They look too clean to be soldered.

I built a copper manifold, sweated together, with slots only on top. I've found that this slows the runoff considerably and I'm normally in the high 80's to low 90's with it. I've heard runnoff rate is only a concern for fly sparging, but my experience with this setup has been positive and I can't help but think that the runoff rate might have something to do with it.

I've had one or two stuck sparges over several dozen mashes, and simply blowing into the siphon hose cleared it, though I did have to vorlauf again.

It seems that the biggest disadvantage of the SS braid is its durability (although I have had no problem with mine). However, apparently the SS braid is better at filtering the mash, and hence, facilitates a faster vorlauf.

Why not get the best of both worlds by covering a generously slotted copper pipe/manifold with SS braid?

Why not get the best of both worlds by covering a generously slotted copper pipe/manifold with SS braid?

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Maybe because the braid could cover the slots in the copper and this should lead to filtration loss. No ?

Mais be a braid covering a copper manifold with bigger slots ?

I use a large stainless braid. It is very stiff and I have never had it collapse. Only stuck sparge was with a high wheat content.

Bobby_M said:

How do you live with yourself with that manifold off center? Heh ;-)

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Are you kidding?

That's the best looking piece of equipment I've got... LOL

It certainly puts things in perspective. Carry on. ;-)

That chiller is very reminiscent of mine. I didn't have anything with the proper diameter to make nice coils so I used my brake line bender. It's kinda square shaped with a lot of strange curves from the original copper coil. Works though!

I'm having a hard time understanding why one method would be better than the other. When you batch sparge you completely drain the mashtun.

Why would it make any difference what type of filter method you use? I can understand with fly sparging because of channeling concerns.

Has anyone actually used both and found a difference in efficiency?

Todd said:

I'm having a hard time understanding why one method would be better than the other. When you batch sparge you completely drain the mashtun.

Why would it make any difference what type of filter method you use? I can understand with fly sparging because of channeling concerns.

Has anyone actually used both and found a difference in efficiency?

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That is what I have been thinking too. I can't see where a manifold or false bottom would have an effect on efficiency when batch sparging.

BierMuncher said:

Are you kidding?

That's the best looking piece of equipment I've got... LOL
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Freakin' hilarious!

I hit 83% with my 36 qt. ghetto masher with the braid filter 3 weeks ago. Not bad for my 9th AG batch. The efficiencies have gotten better every time, except for Saturday's brew session when I only got 149 degrees in the tun and was too busy multitasking to correct the problem. Ended up with 74%. This week when I was building my new 70 qt X-treme mash tun for 10 gallon batches, I decided to make my manifold out of CPVC. Why? I had most of the fittings, and some day I may want to fly sparge, which I understand the manifold is better for. This is only temporary. I just got a keggle for boiling. I should get another in a couple months for a HLT, then another this fall for a mash tun.

If you are batch sparging, do what YOU think is best. In either case, figure out a way to affix you braid/manifold to the bottom of the cooler.

Wables said:

If you are batch sparging, do what YOU think is best. In either case, figure out a way to affix you braid/manifold to the bottom of the cooler.

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I didn't find a whole lot of difference to be honest, they both have pros and cons. The SS braid would let you run off faster and I only had to vorlauf maybe 2L before I ran off. With my manifold it drains a little bit slower and I have to vorlauf maybe 4-5L but the trade off is it drains the tun almost completely whereas the SS braid leaves a lot of wort behind (in my own experience anyway).

Never tried copper tubing. Have used screens and braids. The screens definetely work better because the holes are uniform. Braids are really tight, and where the folds are, have a larger hole.
With the screen ( I made my own and it's super tight ), after I get about half way through my total runoff, I can open my 1/2" full port valve wide open. Can never do that with the braid. Would always cloud up.

I use a rectangular cooler MLT and the bottom of the cooler slopes toward the spigot with a little depression right at the end. I attached some 3/8" soft copper to the inside of the spigot and curved it down as a dip tube before clamping my braid on. This allows me to drain all but a cup or less. If your spigot sits an inch or more above the cooler bottom, you really have to construct a dip tube for inside the braid to get within 1/8" or so of the bottom.

Brewer3401 said:

With the screen ( I made my own and it's super tight ), after I get about half way through my total runoff, I can open my 1/2" full port valve wide open. Can never do that with the braid. Would always cloud up.

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I can do it with my SS braid. In fact, I don't even have to wait until the tun is half drained. I vorlauf about 2 L until everything is running clear, and then I just crank it wide open and drain the whole thing. No problem.

BierMuncher said:

Are you kidding?

That's the best looking piece of equipment I've got... LOL
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Munch, does that chiller really still have the barcode label on it ?? Aren't you worried about getting chloropolyphenyllwhosits in your beer?

Bike N Brew said:

Munch, does that chiller really still have the barcode label on it ?? Aren't you worried about getting chloropolyphenyllwhosits in your beer?

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LOL.

Not so worried as I am about the soldering flux...heh heh...

Actually, I shoulda been more clear. That beauty is my pre-chiller. Never touches the beer.

Now HERE is my actual immersion chiller.

Another fine example of meticulous design and execution.

Your wort chiller and mine should party. They look very similar.

Since everyone else is posting their chillers....



Pay particular attention to the meticulous bindings



I wrap my chiller in a straining bag and the posts work great as attachment points.

D2T said:

Since everyone else is posting their chillers....

Pay particular attention to the meticulous bindings

I wrap my chiller in a straining bag and the posts work great as attachment points.

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That is SWEET. My compliments to the engineer behind that swell design.

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