Peroni Clone

While at my local homebrew shop the other day I was happy to see, for the first time, a LME called "European Lager" and the picutre on the can appeared to be a picture of the top of a Peroni bottle.

I love Peroni, I tried it while I was over in London last year, and since then I haven always tried to order it when available, however it's usually not and when it is it's about $6 or $7 a bottle or $12-$13 for a 6 pack.

Does anyone have any Peroni clones? It'd be greatly appreciated for a nice late summer lager.

Nothing? Not even a view? lol..

I really really like Peroni's Nastro Azzuro. I'd LOVE to have a clone of that (too) and have had no success in many research attempts. I'll be watching this thread for one...

Is it really worth cloning? Try finding a heineken or Stella clone, should be close enough. And make sure to bottle w/ green bottles to get that skunky flavor.

Nah, not true. Nastro has a sweet lager flavor that is exellent (and not skunky in my experience).

Yeah, Heniken and Stella are good, but not nearly as good as Peroni.

Peroni is very smooth, with a nice flavor. Not skunky like Heinikin, but a little more of a kick then Stella. Plus it's about 7% ABV compared to Heini and Stella. Overall one of my absolute favorite beers, but unfortunately not very available.

Peroni Nastro Azzurro: "premium beer is 5.1% alcohol by volume and expertly brewed using only the finest quality and variety of spring barley, maize, malts and hops"

http://www.sabmiller.in/brands_peroni.html

Not sure about recipe, but here are thoughts for Peroni Clone:

85% Pilsner malt
10% flaked maize
5% C10

"Clean Lager Yeast"
Hops: Saaz ?

Anybody have idea what Hop schedule would be for Peroni ?

mezak1gd said:

Is it really worth cloning? Try finding a heineken or Stella clone, should be close enough. And make sure to bottle w/ green bottles to get that skunky flavor.

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So I take it you've never had Peroni.

Came across this Peroni Clone recipe:

Peroni Birra:
23 litres = 6 gallons
Original gravity 1044

3250g Crushed lager malt = 7 lbs
125g Crushed crystal malt = 0.27 lbs
750g Flaked rice = 1.6 lbs (? flaked maize instead?)
15ltrs water for 'lager' brewing
5ml Irish moss
60+30g Saaz hops = 1 oz
15g Gelatine
60g lager yeast


http://www.jimsbeerkit.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23286#p259384

Hey.

I have just got this book, and plan to make this recipe. As I really like this beer.
One question - 60grams of yeast seems quite a lot. Is this a mistake by any chance? Any of the packets of yeast I have seen are approx 12 grams and recommended for the same size of batch referenced in this recipe.
Would too much yeast ruin the batch?

I just made this light lager, nothing special in mind when I did it other than something refreshing that my wife might like.

9lbs Briess Pilsen
.5lbs Cara-pils
1 oz. Saaz each at 60, 30, and 15 minutes
Wyeast Danish Lager yeast

2L starter, then fermented for a couple weeks in the upper 40°s, maybe low 50°s. After being in the keg for about 4 weeks now it's still a bit hazy, but it's going to be in the neighborhood of Peroni flavor-wise. The best thing is, when you buy the Pilsen by the 50lbs bag the batch is pretty inexpensive...

For what it's worth, I found the following on the Peroni website:



I wonder what "spring-planted barley" means for the malt?

Peroni is the only beer my wife seems to enjoy, so I'm taking a crack at a clone recipe. Comments & suggestions welcome, especially on the hop schedule (I usually make malty styles with only bittering hops). Based heavily on what I found on the Peroni website:

Percloni

OG 1.051
FG 1.012 (est)
5.1% ABV
22 IBU

By weight:

• Pilsner 75%
• Quick Grits 25% (supposedly a lighter flavor than flaked corn)
• Maybe some rice hulls for good measure

Will mash at 150 for 90 minutes (to get all the grits converted)

Boil for 90 minutes

Hop schedule:

• Magnum, 11.7%, 2.6 g/finished gal, 60 min, 21 IBU
• Saaz, 3.2%, 0.86 g/finished gal, 15 min, 1 IBU
• Saaz, 3.2%, 0.86 g/finished gal, 0 mins

Yeast: WLP800 Pilsner Lager or 830 German Lager, est AA 75%

Probably be a few weeks before I get to this.

diesel_88 said:

Percloni

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Brilliant!

Subscribed to this thread to see if anybody reports a success or near hit.

Welp, tried the recipe above; missed by quite a margin.

I don't think the grits converted fully, even though I mashed a long time--missed my efficiency target and had to make less beer. Could have been the proportions (2-row malt with 25% adjunct), or maybe the "quick" grits are not gelatinized enough.

Color was darker than it should have been, too. I'm guessing the long boil in a thin-bottomed pot was partially to blame, though this could also be a sign of under-converted adjunct.

Hop bill needs adjusting, too. Need more bitterness and flavor.

Will try this again. Sometime.

Thanks for posting results, even if not ideal. I bought the ingredients and am about to try it, perhaps with slight modifications. I've read many threads on the conversion issue with quick grits, many report success in the mash, but others boil them first. Whatever i try, I'll report my attempt in the coming months.

Okay, time to try this sucker again! Going to cook the grits first this time, cut the boil time in half, and change the hop schedule. Adjusted recipe:


Percloni rev 01

OG 1.055
FG 1.012 (est)
5.1% ABV
22 IBU

By weight:

• Pilsner 75% (1.39 lbs/finished gal)
• Quick Grits 25%, cooked (0.46 lb/finished gal)

Mash at 150-whatever for an insanely long time (150 minutes?)

Boil for 60 minutes

Hop schedule:

• Magnum, 13%, 2.3 g/finished gal, 60 min
• Saaz, 3.2%, 1.9 g/finished gal, 15 min
• Saaz, 3.2%, 1.9 g/finished gal, 0 min

Yeast: WLP800 Pilsner Lager est. AA 75%


Not quite sure how to handle the extra water from the cooked grits; grits are goopy and take up a lot of water (4:1 by volume, according to the package!). Probably will assume it contributes to the strike water volume.

Very interested in how this turns out, keep us posted

Love Peroni, would like to try this clone if successful.

Transferred to secondary today and tasted the hydrometer flask. Promising! Nice extra-pale straw color. Hop flavor was maybe too pronounced, but we'll see after a few weeks of lagering and carbonation.

But the primary fermenter was like Sediment Gone Wild. Holy cow, I've never seen so much. Out of 3.8 gallons, I left behind a full gallon of sediment! It must be from cooking the grits ahead of time--1.6 pounds of dry grits turned into almost a gallon when cooked, and that stuff is sticky and gloppy. Extraction was much improved (better efficiency than expected), and I assumed mashing would dissolve most of the glop, but apparently it didn't.

Final verdict: quite tasty and getting closer to the goal! Needs another iteration or two.

- Color is very pale and appealing
- Didn't finish quite dry enough, and the mouthfeel is a bit thick. I think I will try a reduced mash temperature next time, but holy cow that will take a long time.
- Extraction and ABV were a little high, but in the ballpark. Will compensate next time.
- Bitterness seems about good
- Hop flavor/aroma seem good to me, but I'm not the best at teasing those aspects out. I would welcome hop-schedule advice from anyone.
- Might change up the yeast to WLP802 next time, just for giggles.
- Do NOT recommend cooking the quick grits. Will try an overnight soak next time.

Finally finished the head-to-head comparison after 6-ish weeks of lagering in the bottle. I call it 80% identical to Peroni; quite pleased with the results of this second iteration!

Percloni on the left, commercial product on the right.

• Color is almost spot-on, though my brew didn't clear as much as I wanted (gelatin-measuring derp). This makes it look significantly lighter in the first photo. Will hit gelatin a little harder and use Irish Moss next time.
• Not quite dry enough. Peroni itself is very slightly off-dry; Percloni is just a bit sweeter than that. Still very pleasant, though. Will try a Bohemian pilsner yeast next time, maybe WLP802.
• Needs significantly more hop aroma, and slightly more hop flavor. Will increase the Saaz next time.
• Retains slightly more head than the commercial product, but neither one keeps a significant head.
• Slightly thicker mouthfeel than the target. I will try a lower mash temp for *gulp* even longer next time.
• Needs a bit more fizz; shot for 2.7 volumes using this calculator. Will go for 2.9 next time.

My non-beer-appreciating wife (in whose honor I conducted this experiment because Peroni is the only beer she'll drink) could only tell the difference because of the lower carbonation. I call that success!

What are you thinking for the Saaz addition? 1oz Saaz additions or dry hoping with1oz Saaz?

I was thinking I'd bump the flavor addition up 10%-ish and at least 50% more aroma hops at flameout.

My palate is not very calibrated, though; most of my brews are malty styles with little to no flavor/aroma hops.

I like your hop selection and schedule. Most Peroni clone recipes I've seen have omitted Magnum. I'll take your advice and bump up the Saaz just a bit maybe to get around 25 IBUs.

However, based on what I read on their website, I'm just gonna adjust the ingredients just a bit with 25% Flaked Corn instead of the Grits. I'll fill in the rest with 35% Pale Malt and 35% German Pilsner.

Since you said the Peroni was a littler drier than yours, I'll try lowering the mash a degree and see how that turns out. Did you mash at 150?

Thanks for the update.

I mashed at 150-something. Mash temperature control is on my need-to-get-better-at list. Thinking about it some more, I might even consider dry-hopping with Saaz, though I have no experience doing that.

Let us know how your batch turns out!

Brewing this on Saturday (this weekend), any final advice - I'm using your hop Schedule - rounding up to the oz, I'll try 802 or bohemian Pilsner and mash at 150 or less (my least precise measure).

If your have any additions or changes post them, the starter will get bought and pitched by Wednesday!

Thanks for all of your hard work.

What are the fermentation temperatures you used? I'm making a 4L starter that I'll decanted down. What were your Lager temperatures?

Hopefully the rain let's up and I can brew tomorrow...

I mashed at 150. I just transferred to lagering today so we'll see in a few weeks how it turns out and if it's dry enough. I couldn't really tell much from the sip of flat wort from the hydrometer tube, but didn't taste bad. .

Just pitched my yeast today! Had to slightly modify the recipe based on available ingredient (only 1.5 of grits and needed to use 2 lbs of 2 row with the other 7 lbs Pilsner), I was good on hops and I'm using 2007 for yeast.

Spaced on taking a OG, but we'll see where she lands.

Just kegged it yesterday and tapped it today. I don't have a bottle of Peroni here to compare it to but I can say it turned out to be a great lager. The color was a bit darker than the original IMO, but it was a smooth and balanced recipe. Great drinking lager. I'll definitely brew again and continue to try to tweak the recipe.

Tried this earlier this week - taste a lot like Peroni. Great color, same taste and Peroni aftertaste - definitely our summer brew!


Thanks for the great recipe.

Glad y'all enjoy the recipe; it's the first one I've tried to reverse-engineer.

This info is clearly OBE, but I lagered at 35 for about 3 weeks. (Sorry for the long absence.)

I love this beer as well and wanted to create it myself. I am glad I found this thread! I can add that from my research (I can read/speak Italian) Your hops schedule may be slightly off. It should be a combo of saaz, tettnang and willamette.

Have you tried/tweaked the recipe any further? I want to follow the trail you have already created.

Cheers!

Tony

forgot to add that most likely the yeast is a Vienna/Austrian based yeast since they were the ones some 150 years ago in Italy helping to create breweries. Of course, if your close and are happy, there isn't much more to say eh?

Hi guys, I'm jumping in to try this Peroni clone. I thought I'd see if you guys had any suggestions before I did.

This will be my first AG brew, in at the deep end, with the mission to clone Peroni as closely as possible

Restarting this a bit, what was the final recipe?

Also, anybody have info on original Peroni (red label but not Peroni Rossa). Can't get that in my state anymore, but only Peroni you can find in Italy. As I recall, a bit rougher-more hop spiciness.

I was similarly going to prime up a recipe. My summary from this thread is to start with Deisel88’s 80% close recipe, but employ 25% flaked maize instead of grits and shuffle up the hops schedule a bit based on his notes.

OK, guess I'll run with that. From the wikipedia entry I'm showing 5.1% ABV ( Peroni Brewery - Wikipedia ), so I'll shoot for an OG of about 1.046-1.048 as my yeast is hitting about 1.008-1.010 FG consistently. I'm using Fermentis S-189, and highly recommend it. Curious about the color issue though, carapils won't get it there I don't think.

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mengtx said:

OK, guess I'll run with that. From the wikipedia entry I'm showing 5.1% ABV ( Peroni Brewery - Wikipedia ), so I'll shoot for an OG of about 1.046-1.048 as my yeast is hitting about 1.008-1.010 FG consistently. I'm using Fermentis S-189, and highly recommend it. Curious about the color issue though, carapils won't get it there I don't think.

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Report back your results for sure, as I’m stocked, so likely will be a month or so before I have space to brew this.

The carapils was not in the Diesel version (75% Pilsner, 25% grits), and he noted color was right on, just didn’t drop clear, so would employ Irish moss or other finings next time.

Perhaps the other comment worth mentioning is water treatment to employ soft water with low carbonates (per Peroni web), as I didn’t note any conversation above on it (and key for honing delicate flavor clone). I’ll likely go with a Yellow Dry profile for first iteration.