WLP099 High Gravity Yeast Technique?

Hi everyone,

I was hoping to get some insight on using White Labs Super High Gravity Yeast, WLP099. I am going to be making an all grain, barleywine style beer, and for theory's sake, I want to see just how high the alcohol content can get using this yeast. So according to White Labs, here are the special instructions for the yeast:

http://www.whitelabs.com/gravity.html

I have several questions regarding this.

1. It says to pitch 3-4 times the normal amount of yeast. Is a 2 pint starter enough, or should I make multiple starters and grow the yeast? For instance, I can make a 1 pint starter with the yeast, then after 2 days add in another pint of wort, then after 2 days add another pint of wort.. and so on. Is a multiple starter approach necessary, and if so, is this technique the way to go about it? Are there consequences to doing this? Will my yeast get exhausted?

2. White Labs says to aerate the beer periodically for the first 5 days of fermentation. I have always been under the impression that once yeast is in your beer, minimize aeration. Aerate the hell out of it before the yeast goes in, but take it easy afterwards. Am I going to increase chances of oxidation if I shake the bucket for like 20 minutes every day for the first few days of fermentation?

3. It also says not to pitch all of the wort sugar at once. I feel like this can get pretty complicated. Let's say I make 5 gallons of wort with an OG of 1.100. Should I start with like three gallons and let the yeast go at it, and maybe in like 3 days add the remainder 2 gallons to the carboy? Once santized of course! What other techniques could be used? Also, will this have any effect on my hydrometer reading for FG? I'm going to assume that if my cooled, mixed wort has an OG of 1.100, then I can start with 3 gallons and add in the other 2 gallons later, that I shouldn't have any bizarre FG readings.


Lots of questions, I know. Damn engineering mind that forces me to read into everything! Would appreciate your thoughts on this!

Thanks,
Alex

1. I would make a huge starter. At least a half gallon, then decant the liquid and pitch the cake.

2. I have heard to aerate the fermenting wort for super high gravity beers, but it seems to me like that wouldnt be the best idea too. At any rate aerate the bejeezus out of it before you pitch. Maybe someone else willl chime in on this point.

3. I think that what they mean is this:

Say you want 5 gal at 1.100 => 5 * 100 = 500 GU
First addition would be something like 3 gal at 1.070 (210 GU)

After the yeast has a good headstart on that add 1 gal at 1.145 (145 GU)
Then a few days afterwards, add another 1 gal at 1.145 (145 GU)

The point of that is to not shock the yeast too much. They do not deal well with too high of an OG.

Hopefully someone else has some insight on this.

- magno

magno said:

2. I have heard to aerate the fermenting wort for super high gravity beers, but it seems to me like that wouldnt be the best idea too. At any rate aerate the bejeezus out of it before you pitch. Maybe someone else willl chime in on this point.

Click to expand...

I don't know a lot about it, but with a barleywine, perhaps aeration/oxidation isn't as much of a concern. Isn't there supposed to be some sort of port wine/sherry flavor to aged barleywine anyway? I could be COMPLETELY wrong.

Super high gravity does require a different approach and multiple yeast adds, multiple sugar adds and re-aeration are three of them. If this is a partial mash, I'd target 3 gallons for the first fermentation. Batch sparge another two gallons of hot water and save it for later. Make a starter and pitch it, but hold back about 1/4 cup for the second starter (using some of the last running). Add the second starter, 1/2 the extract with 1/2 the last running, aerate after two days. Repeat at four days.

If you are pushing for 20% or more, plan on three adds.

Oh, get a big bucket. like 10 gallons for a 5 gallon batch.

What would you say is the highest ABV you could hit with just a single pitching/fermentation? 10-12%?

1. Needs heavy aeration.
a. Aerate very heavily, 4 times as much as with a normal gravity beer. Less oxygen dissolves into solution at high gravity. Aerate intermittently during first 5 days of fermentation (30sec-1min).
2. Needs nutrients
3. To obtain higher ABVs (16% +)
a. Pitch 3-4 times as much yeast.
b. Add 2 times the normal nutrient level
c. Begin Fermentation with wort that would produce a lower alcohol beer (6-8%) and then add wort each day for the first 5 days (wort can be concentrated at this point).


This is info from the White Labs websight:
http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/strains_wlp099.html

pezcraig said:

1. Needs heavy aeration.
a. Aerate very heavily, 4 times as much as with a normal gravity beer. Less oxygen dissolves into solution at high gravity. Aerate intermittently during first 5 days of fermentation (30sec-1min).
2. Needs nutrients
3. To obtain higher ABVs (16% +)
a. Pitch 3-4 times as much yeast.
b. Add 2 times the normal nutrient level
c. Begin Fermentation with wort that would produce a lower alcohol beer (6-8%) and then add wort each day for the first 5 days (wort can be concentrated at this point).


This is info from the White Labs websight:
http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/strains_wlp099.html

Click to expand...

This is interesting since the info is different than in Chris White's book on yeast. In it he says for high gravity batches to aerate a second time after 12 hours of fermentation (so the yeast have a chance to split at least once), but doesn't mention any further aeration after that point. He also mentioned the importance of yeast nutrient, but didn't say anything about stepping up the batch size. Weird.

stageseven said:

This is interesting since the info is different than in Chris White's book on yeast. In it he says for high gravity batches to aerate a second time after 12 hours of fermentation (so the yeast have a chance to split at least once), but doesn't mention any further aeration after that point. He also mentioned the importance of yeast nutrient, but didn't say anything about stepping up the batch size. Weird.

Click to expand...

I did this. I also repitch more yeast when I aerated with oxygen at the 12hr.

Og 1.126
Fg 1.019

Mustangj said:

I did this. I also repitch more yeast when I aerated with oxygen at the 12hr.

Og 1.126
Fg 1.019

Click to expand...

What was your pitch rate for each addition? Did you make one starter then divide into two or did you make two starters? I'd be really interested in your approach since it apparently worked.

I would say that even though the book just released only mentions aeration at the 12-18hr mark I would advise aeration after that. I have a RIS that started at 1.130 that I then added another 3lbs of dark jaggery. The beer is currently stalled at about 1.050. So monday I'm making a lower gravity stout with wlp099 so I can throw my stalled batch on the yeast cake. I will then aerate it again since it still has a beer's worth of sugar to ferment.

sjbeerman said:

What was your pitch rate for each addition? Did you make one starter then divide into two or did you make two starters? I'd be really interested in your approach since it apparently worked.

Click to expand...

I made a huge starter and then put half in after brewing hit it with some pure oxygen. I started to see activity after about 4 hours, waited another 12 and then pitch the rest of the yeast. The starter was over a gallon, it filled a mason jar half way.

Next time I make a huge beer i'm going to, make a lighter beer somthing like 1.050 wash the yeast from that beer and pitch half and the other half after 12 hours in the big beer.

Mustangj said:

I did this. I also repitch more yeast when I aerated with oxygen at the 12hr.

Og 1.126
Fg 1.019

Click to expand...

And it did that less then a week!

I didn't have to use WLP099 either.

I just read an interesting article about a high gravity homebrew and WLP099. I think it addresses your concerns about aeration.
http://byo.com/stories/issue/article/issues/241-december-2006/51-21-alcohol-all-grain-beer

My idea has been to start a high gravity barleywine of 1.120+ on a fresh yeast cake of WLP001 of a 1.060 gravity IPA.

And then later adding another starter of WLP099 to to the fermenting wort. Complete with additional aeration.

Any thoughts on that idea?

That's along the lines of my plans next time I do a huge beer. Everytime I tried following the guidelines on whitelabs my beer still ends up pooping out early. This last time I brewed up a stout and added the yeast from that to my RIS that stalled out.