Exctract v All Grain ? and ? on that "hombrewy" flavor

Williams 728
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Temperature and overall control of your fermentation is closely related to how well you know your yeast - the level of experience you have with that particular strain. It has been a great enhancement for my brewing since I began using the Edinburgh strain (WLP028) for most of my brewing, because I now have many batches of experience with it and have my process dialed in with it.

For example, with this yeast, I find that I get excellent results when i ferment near or at 60 for at least the first two weeks, then let it rise up to 65-68, which is the ambient temperature in my basement/brewery-headquarters.

FWIW, I put the carboy in a rubbermaid-like bin with water and frozen bottles for the first two weeks of fermentation. For me, I enjoy the low-tech, handmade approach. But I also like grinding grain by hand, so take it for what's its worth.
 
Wheatmeister said:
Great tip Bob. That being the case do you suggest I go with Spring water? As far as temps are concerned, should i just shoot for whatever the White Labs vial recommends?
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Spring water works fine for me. Not all waters are the same, though. Some have more dissolved minerals, some don't.

Optimum temperatures are generally specified by the yeast manufacturers as a range for each strain of yeast. You should pay careful attention to the manufacturer's specifications.* I usually advise fermenting toward the low end of the range. The inside of the fermenter will be a different temperature than the ambient temperature of the room/fridge/swamp-cooler where the fermenter resides, usually several degrees warmer. For example, if your fermenting room is 70F, the inside of your fermenter could be 74 or even 76F, depending on what stage of the ferment is ongoing.

In my limited experience, my extract brews got a lot better when I went to full boil and got an immersion chiller. I lost the weird flavor there. Do you do full boils? how do you chill to pitching temps?
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A very good point, one I thought about addressing earlier. Those are questions which need answering.

Cheers,

Bob


* Except when you shouldn't. :D There are some situations where you can diverge from the recommendations and brewing wisdom. But for the nonce, stick with the recommended temps.
 
Legin said:
Thank you for finally mentioning this! Before I learned water chem all my all-grains had a mild, similar taste to them I could not pinpoint. Considering water is 90% + of beer, it plays a huge role in flavor.

To move on to all-grains you want to be sure that you can produce extract beers with confidence. Because if you do an all-grain and it turns out bad, you'll have too many probable causes. Problems that can most likely be scratched off with extract brewing experience: fermentation temp, sanitization issue, the yeast, aerating the wort, old hops, old adjuncts, oxidation, etc. And of course there is no guarantees these won't occur in your all-grains. It's just best to get these out the way and possibly familiarize yourself with them before you add on a hundred other probable causes that come with doing all-grains.

As far as temp goes, depends on the beer. Usually the lower of the suggested, which will most often be 68. For Belgians I like to keep them around 72 to add to their funkiness.
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Uh, I mentioned trying spring water in the beginning of all this. BTW a cube cooler works great for bringing a keg to a party. Keeps the ice way longer. So this one $30 piece acts as a crash cooler, swamp cooler, and keg tub all in one.
 
As for water, I have an RO filter and use that. I know there has been tons of controversy over the best water to use, but I am happy with the results that I am getting with RO. It takes out the nasties, but doesn't completely strip it like DI or distilled does.

On a tour that the Anheuser-Busch brewery in St. Louis, I was told that they use RO water for their beers. That way they can make beer in different geographical locations and still come up with a pretty consistent flavor profile.
 
jerryalan said:
How much does the temp of the fermenting beer typically raise? I'm asking because I've been reading the ebay aquarium temp controller thread and am in the process of acquiring parts. When it's finished I'm wondering if I need to set the controller to a couple degrees cooler than my desired temp since the probe will not be in the beer.
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In my experience, an average of 4-6 degrees F during active fermentation (I have heard tell of as much as 10F). It really does depend on the yeast strain, original gravity, ambient temp, duration of primary fermentation, etc, etc, etc (many, many variables). The best way to know is by gaining experience through measuring the temp of your fermenting wort during each batch you brew.
 
ThickHead said:
In my experience, an average of 4-6 degrees F during active fermentation (I have heard tell of as much as 10F). It really does depend on the yeast strain, original gravity, ambient temp, duration of primary fermentation, etc, etc, etc (many, many variables). The best way to know is by gaining experience through measuring the temp of your fermenting wort during each batch you brew.
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According to my strip thermometer, it raises just 2C or 3.6F, never went more than that.
 
Bob said:
Spring water works fine for me. Not all waters are the same, though. Some have more dissolved minerals, some don't.

Optimum temperatures are generally specified by the yeast manufacturers as a range for each strain of yeast. You should pay careful attention to the manufacturer's specifications.* I usually advise fermenting toward the low end of the range. The inside of the fermenter will be a different temperature than the ambient temperature of the room/fridge/swamp-cooler where the fermenter resides, usually several degrees warmer. For example, if your fermenting room is 70F, the inside of your fermenter could be 74 or even 76F, depending on what stage of the ferment is ongoing.



A very good point, one I thought about addressing earlier. Those are questions which need answering.

Cheers,

Bob


* Except when you shouldn't. :D There are some situations where you can diverge from the recommendations and brewing wisdom. But for the nonce, stick with the recommended temps.
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I do not do full boils, I boil 3.5 gal and top off as my pot is only a 5 gal. No wort chiller yet either, chill in the sink with ice/cold water and the ol stir method. I will fix this with my next batch.

Based on what I've learned from this thread, here's how i would prioritize my changes for my next batch with the current budget i'm workin with:

To purchase:

wort chiller, temp regulator for fridge, spring water

Processes to do differently:

Boil as much as possible, about 4 gal.

Use late extract method for the last 10-15 mins

Chill wort much faster to much cooler temps before pitching

research yeast i'm using and try to get my pitch rate more accurate via MrMalty

Get my ferment temp consistent and at the lowest end of what's recommended by White Labs

Hopefully this will lead to my best batch of extract yet, any other suggestions I'm forgetting or blind to from the guru's at large?
 
Indyking said:
According to my strip thermometer, it raises just 2C or 3.6F, never went more than that.
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Which is why I began my statement with, "in my experience." Additionally, an adhesive strip thermometer on the outside of your fermentation vessel (as many of us use) is not the most accurate of instruments to measure the temp of the fermenting wort inside your fermenting vessel.
 
ThickHead said:
Which is why I began my statement with, "in my experience." Additionally, an adhesive strip thermometer on the outside of your fermentation vessel (as many of us use) is not the most accurate of instruments to measure the temp of the fermenting wort inside your fermenting vessel.
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Suffice it to say that I actually have confirmed by sampling my wort and taking the temperature. People always say strip thermometers are not accurate, so I tested it and concluded that, at least the one I have on my fermenter is pretty darn accurate, so that's another misconception people like to carry on... My fermenter has a spigot, so very easy to sample anytime without risking anything. Even my current stout (OG: 1.076) did not rise beyond 4F during the peak of fermentation, when I could hear bubbling upstairs (I ferment in the basement). 10F? I don’t think so…
 
Indyking said:
Suffice it to say that I actually have confirmed by sampling my wort and taking the temperature. People always say strip thermometers are not accurate, so I tested it and concluded that, at least the one I have on my fermenter is pretty darn accurate, so that's another misconception people like to carry on... My fermenter has a spigot, so very easy to sample anytime without risking anything. Even my current stout (OG: 1.076) did not rise beyond 4F during the peak of fermentation, when I could hear bubbling upstairs (I ferment in the basement). 10F? I don’t think so…
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I didn't say that strip thermometers weren't accurate. I said they are not the most accurate. I have found a temperature probe inside a conical to be more reliably accurate. I have expressed my personal experience accurately (4-6F). I have also expressed that I have heard tell (from a friend, it's hearsay) of 10F (this was in a huge barley wine). I added this bit of hearsay to express the principle point that fermentation temperature is typically higher than ambient temperature of a fermenting chamber (and can be unpredictable). The only way to truly know is to measure. If your experience is different than mine, I am sure the OP will be happy for your input.
 
Wheatmeister said:
I do not do full boils, I boil 3.5 gal and top off as my pot is only a 5 gal. No wort chiller yet either, chill in the sink with ice/cold water and the ol stir method. I will fix this with my next batch.

Based on what I've learned from this thread, here's how i would prioritize my changes for my next batch with the current budget i'm workin with:

To purchase:

wort chiller, temp regulator for fridge, spring water

Processes to do differently:

Boil as much as possible, about 4 gal.

Use late extract method for the last 10-15 mins

Chill wort much faster to much cooler temps before pitching

research yeast i'm using and try to get my pitch rate more accurate via MrMalty

Get my ferment temp consistent and at the lowest end of what's recommended by White Labs

Hopefully this will lead to my best batch of extract yet, any other suggestions I'm forgetting or blind to from the guru's at large?
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Excellent comprehension of the sound advice given. I have personally never tried the "late extract method" but I certainly concur with the rest. Good luck! And let us know how it turns out. Also...one thing you might do as well is add a method of oxygenating your wort prior to pitching your yeast.
 
ThickHead said:
I didn't say that strip thermometers weren't accurate. I said they are not the most accurate. I have found a temperature probe inside a conical to be more reliably accurate. I have expressed my personal experience accurately (4-6F). I have also expressed that I have heard tell (from a friend, it's hearsay) of 10F (this was in a huge barley wine). I added this bit of hearsay to express the principle point that fermentation temperature is typically higher than ambient temperature of a fermenting chamber (and can be unpredictable). The only way to truly know is to measure. If your experience is different than mine, I am sure the OP will be happy for your input.
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Wow, sorry men, don't be such a thick head :D. Well, I suppose your picture avatar should be telling me I should be gentler with you? Anyway, I did not mean to cause any discomfort. Whatever you say… I’m fine with it.

But this is just for the OP, so please do ignore it, 4F maximum is probably what you can count on, trust me!
 
Wheatmeister said:
I do not do full boils, I boil 3.5 gal and top off as my pot is only a 5 gal. No wort chiller yet either, chill in the sink with ice/cold water and the ol stir method. I will fix this with my next batch.

Based on what I've learned from this thread, here's how i would prioritize my changes for my next batch with the current budget i'm workin with:

To purchase:

wort chiller, temp regulator for fridge, spring water
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Good idea.

Processes to do differently:

Boil as much as possible, about 4 gal.
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I think you're all right with 3.5 gallons. If you feel you can safely boil 4 gallons, and your burner can handle it, go for it!

Use late extract method for the last 10-15 mins
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Sound.

Chill wort much faster to much cooler temps before pitching
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Hell, yeah.

research yeast i'm using and try to get my pitch rate more accurate via MrMalty
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Good. If you're using dry yeast, and you're brewing something below, say, 1.070, one 11-gram packet will usually suffice. The pitching calculator becomes really handy when you're using liquid yeast (White Labs or Wyeast).

Get my ferment temp consistent and at the lowest end of what's recommended by White Labs
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For most strains that'll work fine. Check with HBT before brewing your next batch; if you let us know which strain you're using you can get lots of practical experience as to good ferment temps.

Hopefully this will lead to my best batch of extract yet, any other suggestions I'm forgetting or blind to from the guru's at large?
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I think we've covered about 7,395 bases here, so I'll call it "covered".

Like damn near every activity, the way to get better - and indeed excel - is baby steps. You don't jump from n00b to black belt in 4 karate lessons. ;)

Cheers!

Bob
 
I am not an expert brewer. All I can do is relate my experience.

I began with liquid extract and had a "twang" taste in my beer. I bought the extract at a LHBS that sells a huge amount of the stuff so I assume it was fresh.

I had an old fridge so I bought a temp controller and made a fermentation chamber for my next batch, which ended up having a "twang."

I made a immersion chiller to get my wort down to pitching temps in under 15 min., and the beer still had a "twang."

I made sure I sanitized the he** out of everything - "twang."

I used bottled water - "twang."

I filled sanitized jugs with the same water a local brewpub uses (a friend) - "twang."

I brewed my first all grain, did all sorts of things wrong this first time - great beer, no "twang."

I know people brew great extract beers, but that was my experience.
 
This question was asked a few pages back but I dont think really got asked. How important is proper temperature control after a week or two - that is, after you beer has reached its FG.

Like many, I do not have the space for ANOTHER fridge in my tiny, 2 other roommate apartment. I already have the kegerator. So what I use is a swamp chiller. I fill a bathtub up with a few inches of water and wrap a towel around the fermenter and then put a fan on it. I then let that run for a while. It forms a nice buffer to even out the temperature changes of the day and I usually maintain +/- 2 degrees. However, after a week or so primary fermentation seems done. Can I then keep it in the room where temps range 65-80? I know 80 may be on the upper limit.

One day I may be able to get a fermentation controller. Incidentally, my "homebrew" taste when away when I went force carb in the keg system vs bottle with priming sugar. Who knew?
 
As I understand it, he main reason for keeping temps down during the initial fermentation is to minimize off flavors that the yeast produce while they are active. When fermentation is no longer happening, the yeast won't be producing those compounds, so temp control isn't as important. Obviously, you don't want to store your beer too hot or too cold, but holding it at, say, 75F after fermentation is not going to create off-flavors (but fermenting at 75 probably will). That said, I am by no means an expert on this...

I usually swamp-cool my beers to about 65F during the first 3-4 days of fermentation (going from the first signs of a krausen forming, not from the time I pitch yeast), and put the carboy in my basement (which stays around 68F most of the time) to finish up. Temp swings in the basement really don't seem to have any affect on the beer. But I'm sure keeping the beer at a constant temp throughout the process would be the best way to go.
 
Indyking said:
Whatever you say… I’m fine with it.
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Uhuh...

Indyking said:
But this is just for the OP, so please do ignore it, 4F maximum is probably what you can count on...
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And the quote below from John Palmer (How to Brew) is for both you and the OP (pay close attention to the bit in bold letters):

John Palmer said:
Chapter 8.1.3 - Temperature Factors

The third factor for a good fermentation is temperature. Yeast are greatly affected by temperature; too cold and they go dormant, too hot (more than 10°F above the nominal range) and they indulge in an orgy of fermentation that often cannot be cleaned up by conditioning. High temperatures encourage the production of fusel alcohols - heavier alcohols that can have harsh solvent-like flavors. Many of these fusels esterify during secondary fermentation, but in large amounts these esters can dominate the beer's flavor. Excessively banana-tasting beers are one example of high esters due to high temperature fermentation.

High temperatures can also lead to excessive levels of diacetyl. A common mistake that homebrewers make is pitching the yeast when the wort has not been chilled enough, and is still relatively warm. If the wort is, e.g. 90¡F, when the yeast is pitched and slowly cools to room temperature during primary fermentation, more diacetyl will be produced in the early stages than the yeast can reabsorb during the secondary stage. Furthermore, primary fermentation is an exothermic process. The internal temperature of the fermentor can be as much as 10F above ambient conditions, just due to yeast activity. This is one good reason to keep the fermentor in the proper temperature range; so that with a normal vigorous fermentation, the beer turns out as intended, even if it was warmer than the surroundings.

Brewing in the summertime is a definite problem if you don't have a way to keep the fermentor cool. My friend Scott showed me a neat trick though, he would immerse (not completely) his fermentors in a spare bathtup during the summer. The water in the tub was slow to warm during the day even though temperatures would be in the 90's, and at night the water would be slow to cool, even when the temperature dropped to 45 F. In this way he was able to moderate his fermentation temperature between 60-70 F, and the beer turned out great. I have used this method myself with wash tubs and had great success.
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Indyking said:
trust me!
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Or trust John Palmer.
 
Thickhead, I was fermenting a Two Hearted clone. The ambient temp. was 70 and the strip thermometer was reading 78 before I got it into a swamp cooler. If the thermometer was correct that is pretty damn close to 10 degrees F. :mug:
 
Fishing73 said:
Thickhead, I was fermenting a Two Hearted clone. The ambient temp. was 70 and the strip thermometer was reading 78 before I got it into a swamp cooler. If the thermometer was correct that is pretty damn close to 10 degrees F. :mug:
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If you were using eschatz recipe (which is a good one), and using the S-04 he recommends, I hope you were able to get your temps back down quickly enough. I believe the high end of the recommended fermentation temp range for S-04 is about 75F (24C). Thanks for your input, and I am sure the OP appreciates it. I have had a couple batches go up almost 8F myself, at the height of fermentation activity.
 
If money for all that equipment is an issue, definitely make your own wort chiller. My lhbs sells them for $85 (which is certainly on the high side), but I just picked up 20' of 3/4" copper tubing the other day off craigslist for $20. Guy had replaced a water main during a house rehab and had it left over. It was already in a coil so it was easy enough to bend into a tighter coil around a bottling bucket. A few dollars in fittings and instant wort chiller. And the surface area compared to the standard 30' x 3/8" wort chiller carried at most hbs is actually about 15% more.
 
I'd look at either the way you ferment you beer (pitching rates and temperature specifically), or suspect the bottling process and oxidation. My beers are indistinguishable from commercial beers.
 
ThickHead said:
If you were using eschatz recipe (which is a good one), and using the S-04 he recommends, I hope you were able to get your temps back down quickly enough. I believe the high end of the recommended fermentation temp range for S-04 is about 75F (24C). Thanks for your input, and I am sure the OP appreciates it. I have had a couple batches go up almost 8F myself, at the height of fermentation activity.
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I was using a kit from NB. I got it down about 24 hours later. I had to go buy a plastic tub. I hope I didn't screw it up to bad.:eek:
 
ThickHead said:
Uhuh...



And the quote below from John Palmer (How to Brew) is for both you and the OP (pay close attention to the bit in bold letters):





Or trust John Palmer.
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Men, let it go... 10F mentioned in the book, fine, probably taken from some bizarre circumstances, those that are useful just to make a point in a book (ring a bell?), but it does not really happen in real life very often. Oh my...
 
Indyking said:
let it go...
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Let what go? The truth? Not likely.

If you wish to disregard the experience of others (particularly noted and published subject matter experts) which is outside of that of your own, that is perfectly within your right. However, advising beginners to dismiss it and trust no other but yourself is both arrogant and irresponsible.

Everyone in this thread is sharing personal knowledge (experience) to assist the OP because that is what was requested by the OP. You are the only person suggesting that your advice need be the only worth absorbing. It is unfortunate that you feel it necessary to do so.
 
JonK331 said:
Uh, I mentioned trying spring water in the beginning of all this. BTW a cube cooler works great for bringing a keg to a party. Keeps the ice way longer. So this one $30 piece acts as a crash cooler, swamp cooler, and keg tub all in one.
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I'm convinced the cube cooler is the greatest piece of equipment I own. I got two for $24 each at the Coleman Outlet and they absolutely rock. I can keep a 5 gallon Ale Pail fermenter between 48F and 58F with one 3-5lb daily ice addition. I can keep temps under 55F with two daily ice additions. It's no temp-controlled fridge, but at least I can properly ferment most lager yeast strains. In addition to your above uses, one of my two coolers is also an MLT. (I keep the braided hose from getting smashed by putting enough ice water in to float the fermenter a little.)

Back to the original question, I have to agree with the sea of advice here that problems you have when extract brewing won't magically go away by going to all-grain. However, all-grain isn't the boogeyman we make it out to be. It's not that hard. We just have a tendency to make it hard. If you want to give it a go, then by all means do so. Don't worry about not being ready. It's not magic or anything. It's just an extra step you do in exchange for a little more control over the beer-making process. If you are interested, I'd advise a partial mash using the DeathBrewer method or something similar at first. That way you don't have to sink much into equipment up front. If you're not interested in going to all-grain, then pursue whatever interests you in brewing.
 
ThickHead said:
Let what go? The truth? Not likely.

If you wish to disregard the experience of others (particularly noted and published subject matter experts) which is outside of that of your own, that is perfectly within your right. However, advising beginners to dismiss it and trust no other but yourself is both arrogant and irresponsible.

Everyone in this thread is sharing personal knowledge (experience) to assist the OP because that is what was requested by the OP. You are the only person suggesting that your advice need be the only worth absorbing. It is unfortunate that you feel it necessary to do so.
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OK thickhead, I'm not disregarding anything and please do show me where I suggested my advice is the only one worth absorbing. You are making incorrect assumptions, pure speculation to feed turmoil, nothing else, really sorry to say. It's up to readers to decide who they should listen to, but if anyone decides to maliciously judge instead of just accepting or rejecting an opinion, that's not my problem.

Since you want to insist in this subject, do you want do something far more useful for the OP?

I have had 7 beer batches so far, OG from 1.042 to 1.076 (I’m a beginner). I measured the wort temp with a thermometer on all them because I was checking the accuracy of the strip. The higher temperature increase I got during peak of fermentation to date was 3F... I will keep measuring every single one of them for now on and reporting here. You could do the same if you really want to help and make a useful point. Of course, other readers are welcome to do the same too, so let's all see how long any of us will take to break the 10F mark. Let’s just stop with the BS talk.
 
Indyking said:
I measured the wort temp with a thermometer on all them because I was checking the accuracy of the strip. The higher temperature increase I got during peak of fermentation to date was 3F... I will keep measuring every single one of them for now on and reporting here.
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I have done this (although not for quite a while) for the same reason you did - I wanted to see the difference between the reading on the strip thermometer and the actual temperature of the wort/beer. I did this on day 2 of active fermentation, when I thought fermentation activity was at a peak, and saw that the actual temp was 2 degrees higher than the reading on the strip thermometer. At the time, the reading on the strip thermometer was about 4 degrees higher than the ambient air temperature in the room.

Also, at this point I have a lot of experience with the yeast I use for most of my ales (Edinburgh). I aim for a fermentation temperature (as indicated by the strip thermometer) of 58 - 63, knowing that it will likely stay below 65. At those temps, Edinburgh works well, slowly but steadily and cleanly.

:off:Indyking and Thickhead, you might consider not responding to each other for a while, there is little to be gained from further antagonism.
 
To the OP - I have had the same exact issue as you on the 2 extract kits I've brewed. My fermentation temps seemed to hover right around 68-70 F. I've done a lot of reading and a lot of the info I've gotten points to adding the extract later in the boil to resolve it. That is something I will try next time. It wouldnt hurt me to try to ferment cooler though. Ive given the beer a lot of time to condition/age and the taste seems to have faded a lot, although it still is noticeable. I am curious to try AG just to see if the taste will remain, because I had a feeling that it wouldnt be there still.
 
Wheatmeister said:
Use late extract method for the last 10-15 mins
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I add extract at flameout. Ever since I started adding about 80% of my extract at flameout, i've noticed NO extracty-twang that I used to always have. I'm convinced that carmelization is a huge factor.

One thing I don't think others have pointed out yet is that you've taken on some rather difficult recipes to start out with. Personally, I think it is better to pick a fairly simple style and brew several batches of it until you feel you are substantially improving. A simple style like American Pale Ale has very clean flavors and few ingredients, so you could taste off flavors and eliminate them by improving your process.

Taking on complicated recipes like a pumpkin ale and xmas ale is impressive, but not something I would recommend for the beginning brewer.

Try to make 3-4 batches of Pale Ales and see if you are able to improve things.
 
@alexdagrate - Are you using LME or DME? If DME do you not worry about infection by adding extract at flameout? Would it make more sense to add DME 5-10 minutes before flameout to make sure you kill anything?
 
Strangebird said:
@alexdagrate - Are you using LME or DME? If DME do you not worry about infection by adding extract at flameout? Would it make more sense to add DME 5-10 minutes before flameout to make sure you kill anything?
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I should've mentioned that I only use LME (it's cheap at my LHBS).

Other posters and I believe that the heat at flameout is sufficient to kill any nasties. I want to minimize carmelization as much as possible and therefore don't even boil the majority of LME at all anymore. It's worked well for the last six or so batches I've made.
 
For LME you should be safe anyway since it should be pasteurized (or the LME equivalent) before being sealed in the can. So I imagine unless you're careless you shouldn't ever have any issues.

Since for DME I had to weigh it on a scale, unless I sanitize the scale it would be much easier to get some nasty in there.

I still find it interesting that the idea of caramelization could be the cause of bad flavors in extract brewing. I would like to go AG in the next few batches, but in the mean time I might try this method of adding most of the extract at the end.
 
Last night I drank some of my first batch that used all DME rather than all LME. The "homebrewy" taste is gone. Looks like I may be done with LME. Unfortunately, DME is a lot more expensive.

I'm now on the hunt for a small upright freezer to turn into a fermentation closet. After that project is completed, it's about time to go all grain.
 
OK, one question at a time.

Wheatmeister said:
Im about to get set up to brew All grain, based on what i've read this will give me much more control over the grains and other variables. Will I be able to achieve my desired color with All grain easier than exctract brewing?
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Yes and yes, especially in regards to light-colored beers.

Wheatmeister said:
Also, do you believe the final product is noticably better Allgrain v extract brewing?
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Yes but a well-made extract will be better than a poorly-made all-grain. Technique is as important as methodology.


Wheatmeister said:
My brews so far have all had a similar "hombrewy" flavor that's hard to describe, wierd thing is it's similar in all my batches whicha have been drastically different. I've done a Honey wheat, a Pumking clone, a Xmas ale, and now Valencia wheat.....and somehow they all have a common characteristic i can only describe as a homebrewy flavor...it's really not a great flavor either honestly, one i'd like to eliminate. It's almost a caramilzed flavor that leads me to beleive the extract has been carmalizing with my extract brewing
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The carmelized "homebrewy" flavor you describe is likely due to a partial boil technique combined with malt extract and yes it is carmelization due to the concentration of sugars and the fact that those sugars in the extract have already been subjected to heat during their manufacturing. Extract beers brewed with a full-boil technique are much less likely to exhibit that characteristic and as an intermediate step to all-grain brewing can dramatically improve your beers.

Wheatmeister said:
or it could be i always use white labs yeast....possibly???
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It's not the yeast.

Wheatmeister said:
Thanks for any suggestions/help...
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Pretty much the same things that have already been mentioned. The other problems or lack of proper technique that typically result in that "homebrewy" flavor are lack of proper cleaning & sanitizing, poor fermentation temperature control and underpitching of yeast. It's a myth that homebrew has to taste like "homebrew". Clean and sanitize scrupulously, make sure the fermentation is done within the recommended temperature range of the yeast (ambient room temperature is not the fermentation temperature) and seriously consider making yeast starters for liquid yeast. For yeast if you want to keep it simple try going back to dry yeast. Fresh, quality dry yeast can make a very good beer and you can just dump one pack into a five gallon batch and not have to worry about it. Make sure you are using fresh, quality extract (dry probably has less carmelization problems) and consider using the "late extract addition" method or taking the step to a full boil volume on the way to going all-grain. :mug:
 
Pappers said:
:off:Indyking and Thickhead, you might consider not responding to each other for a while, there is little to be gained from further antagonism.
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Thanks Pappers! I think we have managed to get ourselves under control and act like adults. :mug:
 

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