carbonation problems

Hi everyone, thanks for taking the time to read this. I'm having an ongoing issue with carbonation and stubbornly haven't sought much help sooner. In a nutshell, my 5th batch of extract brew is in the secondary now. My first batch was one of the best beers I've had and the next 3, well they weren't even close, even tho one was the same kit as the first. I believe the one in the secondary isn't going to be any better. The flavor has been good on the following batches but a nearly straight down the middle pour yields about 1/4" of head.
The known differences btwn batch 1 and the following 4 are:
1. First batch of wort boiled ended up 2 gals so I put 3 gals of reverse osmosis water, straight from bottle, from a local water bottler. Perhaps it was better oxyginated as a result?
2. Used different sanitizer and rinsed it as well. First batch used carlson(?) And I rinsed it off. Following batches I used starsan and didn't rinse.
3. In my first batch I made another beginner mistake and put the priming sugar
in the secondary. Realized my mistake and left it in the secondary an extra week to release excess carbonation so the bottles didn't explode.
4. First batch was made entirely with bottled water and following batches all used at least partially (I know) softened tap water.Basically in the first batch I made a ton of mistakes that I didn't make for the followiing batches and still came out with better beer.
My local brew shop leaned toward my problems being from either lack of oxygen(which I don't believe for batches 3-5) or the softened water.
Any thoughts would be appreciated!

As long as you add around 4 oz of corn sugar at bottling and wait 3-4 weeks, you should be carbed (unless you are brewing high-gravity beers). What are the styles you are having problems with? What have their OG's been?

What specialty malts are you using in your brews? Things like caramel malts and wheat can aid in head retention and formation.

I used 3/4 cup of priming sugar in each batch. The brews have been: pale ale, wheat ale, pale ale, mild ale, and in the secondary right now rye ipa. Another thing about the OG, I never got with in .008 of the OG the kit said it would reach. Not sure what the speciality grains were since they were lumped together in the kit.

But how high are the gravities? Have they been above or below 1.070?

No, the highest of the thee batches iv tasted (after 3+ weeks in bottles) was 1.052

If we are talking bottle carbonation, do you get the hiss when you open a bottle, or is it absolutely flat?

What temperature are you storing the bottles at, and for how long, before you open them?

If the issue isn't carbonation, but head retention, it's time to look at recipe and glassware issues.

Edit - secondary has zero - repeat, ZERO - to do with carbonation. There is no way for you to consider a batch in secondary and have any idea if you will have a carb problem from it.

The primary and seconday are held at appx 72 degrees in my 62-63 degree basement with a brew belt. The bottles are also stored in the basement at 63 degrees for no less than 3 weeks. Some bottles are still unrefrigerated and have been held at 63 for 3+months. There is a hiss and a slight carbonation taste in all batches. But not nearly enough. Often after pouring and sitting for a minute or 2 there seems to be slightly foamed formations on top. My LHBS suggested they were protiens. The reciepe (I would think) should be good since it is a kit that has turned out well in the past. Thanks for the help!

Also, I think I'm ok on glassware, using english pint glasses and pilsner glases.

grey487 said:

The primary and seconday are held at appx 72 degrees in my 62-63 degree basement with a brew belt. The bottles are also stored in the basement at 63 degrees for no less than 3 weeks. Some bottles are still unrefrigerated and have been held at 63 for 3+months. There is a hiss and a slight carbonation taste in all batches. But not nearly enough. Often after pouring and sitting for a minute or 2 there seems to be slightly foamed formations on top. My LHBS suggested they were protiens. The reciepe (I would think) should be good since it is a kit that has turned out well in the past. Thanks for the help!

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Three weeks at 70 degrees is the baseline for normal gravity beers. Higher gravity or lower temps can make the process longer.

As for foam... do you use dish detergent on your glasses? This can kill foam.

grey487 said:

Also, I think I'm ok on glassware, using english pint glasses and pilsner glases.

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Not the type of glassware, the way you clean the glassware......

Usually washed by hand with dish soap. But that doesn't affect beers from first batch.

grey487 said:

Usually washed by hand with dish soap. But that doesn't affect beers from first batch.

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We have a winner. Standard dish soap will destroy the head on your beer, can make it not form or melt away almost instantly.

Your first batch was a magical creature?

Dish soap is a known killer of foam. I would expect your beer to carb slower since you keep it at cooler than optimal temps, but it should carb. You are getting the hiss when you open, which indicates CO2. I'm betting the soap is your culprit.

Not your carb problem, but softened water has a lot of sodium and may not be suitable for brewing.

I will give it a shot minus the dish soap. That may make it improve, I don't know. But my LHBS poured it into disposable plastic cups to try it and had the same prob. Also I drank one of the first batch beers a week ago and didn't have the issue then.

One other variable I just remembered. The first batch was stored upstairs at appx 67-68 degres once in the bottle. Left it there for a couple weeks before moving it down to the basement. Could that have played a role? The others have never been out of the basement even tho some have been in the bottle down there since February?

If it's truly carbonation problems and not just had retention problems you are experiencing, then yes, that is exactly why your first batch carbed so quickly. Your basement is too cold to bottle condition in a few weeks.

grey487 said:

One other variable I just remembered. The first batch was stored upstairs at appx 67-68 degres once in the bottle. Left it there for a couple weeks before moving it down to the basement. Could that have played a role? The others have never been out of the basement even tho some have been in the bottle down there since February?

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Perhaps the basement is cooler than you think it is. If you are dropping below the yeast's temp range they could be going to sleep, resulting in very slow to no carb.

Do you guys think if i moved the remaining old brews upstairs they would eventually carb at the higher temps? Like I said 1 batch has been at 62-63 for 3 months. And yes it is possible the temp may even drop to 60 or so.

grey487 said:

Do you guys think if i moved the remaining old brews upstairs they would eventually carb at the higher temps? Like I said 1 batch has been at 62-63 for 3 months. And yes it is possible the temp may even drop to 60 or so.

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Move them upstairs and see what happens. 3 months is not that long. I recently bottled an imperial nut brown ale that spent four weeks in primary and better than four months in secondary.

Thanks so much for all your help!

No prob. Allegedly, that is what this forum is for.