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BigTexun

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I've got an unusual opportunity that I'm mulling over. I have a friend who owns a bar that sells a lot of beer. He loves mine and wants to sell it. He says he is confident that he can sell at least 50 gallons a week... Probably closer to a hundred.

I have checked and it appears that it'd cost about a grand a year for licensing. Should I do it?
 
I've got an unusual opportunity that I'm mulling over. I have a friend who owns a bar that sells a lot of beer. He loves mine and wants to sell it. He says he is confident that he can sell at least 50 gallons a week... Probably closer to a hundred.

I have checked and it appears that it'd cost about a grand a year for licensing. Should I do it?

Is he converting his bar to a brewpub? If not you will have to pay a brewery to brew there or start your own brewery.
 
Oh, forgot to answer your second question.... A small brewery, big enough to handle his demand and not much more. If it becomes popular in his bar, who knows? I own another half acre adjoining my building. :)
 
You only live once... go for it if you want to. If you think you can make the numbers work just on his sales, then give it a shot.
 
Yes, I own the building. It is in an industrial park so I'm assuming zoning would not be a problem.

That's a big part of the cost. Prowbrewer.com has some used brewhouses to give you an idea of what it would take to start up.

50 gallons is less than 2 barrels.
 
Oh, forgot to answer your second question.... A small brewery, big enough to handle his demand and not much more. If it becomes popular in his bar, who knows? I own another half acre adjoining my building. :)

Bigger is better when it comes to brewhouses. It takes roughly the same time to brew a 7 barrel batch as it does a 20 barrel batch. You actually work less to keep up with demand on the bigger system.
 
That's a big part of the cost. Prowbrewer.com has some used brewhouses to give you an idea of what it would take to start up.

50 gallons is less than 2 barrels.

At that scale, any idea what the variable costs would be per "5 gallons?" I do know what it costs me now but, I don't buy grain in bulk.
 
May want to talk to the brewer at Jailhouse Brewing in Hampton... They are the newest brewery in the state of GA... I am sure they would have some more insight into what it takes to start...
 
At that scale, any idea what the variable costs would be per "5 gallons?" I do know what it costs me now but, I don't buy grain in bulk.

Grain and hops will be cheaper in bulk. Yeast is gonna be costly.

The recipes don't scale well. You can't just multiply the recipes. You can go from 5 to 10 gallons, but a jump from 5 gallon to 5 barrel is gonna be tricky.

Brewer's Supply

Hops Direct
 
May want to talk to the brewer at Jailhouse Brewing in Hampton... They are the newest brewery in the state of GA... I am sure they would have some more insight into what it takes to start...

Something tells me that an existing brewery, even one recently started, would be hesitant to share. As a business person, I surely wouldn't.
 
Something tells me that an existing brewery, even one recently started, would be hesitant to share. As a business person, I surely wouldn't.

Actually it's quite the opposite :). Most brewer's are very happy to help one another. At the very least, you can go on brewery tours and ask questions.
 
Something tells me that an existing brewery, even one recently started, would be hesitant to share. As a business person, I surely wouldn't.

Maybe when it comes down to recipes, distribution deals, etc, but I would assume the part involving licensing and getting state approval for said venture wouldn't exactly trade secrets...

And what is the worst that can happen? They say no?

Good luck!!!

:mug:
 
Psychobrew makes a 2-3 barrel system for around $12 k, brand spanking new. This would work, no?
 
Maybe when it comes down to recipes, distribution deals, etc, but I would assume the part involving licensing and getting state approval for said venture wouldn't exactly trade secrets...

And what is the worst that can happen? They say no?

Good luck!!!

:mug:

Oh, I agree about that... I was mostly talking about variable costs. If one has low variable costs, why share and invite more competition?

The licensing requirements are pretty straightforward on the web.
 
Bro, if you are 100% serious about starting your own microbrewery, I suggest hiring a lawyer to deal with all the required red tape. After that if its what you want then follow your dream man. Like others have said, you only live once.
 
Psychobrew makes a 2-3 barrel system for around $12 k, brand spanking new. This would work, no?

If you brew 4 days a week you can produce 8-12 barrels on that system. Unless you want to brew more often consider that your limit. I can't tell you whether that's enough since I don't know how much you'll be able to sell.

Each barrel = 2 kegs

Are you planning on kegging or bottling or both?
 
If your serious about doing this, you really need to educate yourself. You can't judge off what your friend says he can sell. You really need to do market research, find out costs, competitors, because when you get to that level you are going to be at you do not brewing the same way you do your 5 gallon batches, fermentation is totally different and there is ways you can produce beer multiple times faster than you currently do. You have to worry about the water/sewer supply going into you business. I'm also pretty sure that licensing is going to be many times more than $1k or everyone on this forum would be selling their own beer. Plus you have to run everything by the health department, they will question every ingredient that you put in that beer. You have to know all the chemical components of your beer and quality control, you defiantly have to have quality control. Right now it sounds like you are only doing extract and your talking about all grain. Take a look at the all grain section and all the first time all gainers and all the issues that we all deal with. I've been brewing for four years and just ran into my first water chemical issue. Try to create the same exact beer two, three, four, etc. times in a row. Then think about getting serious. Also think about writing a business plan, or entering into some homebrew competitions. Obviously I don't know what your friend has going on or if he's going to be paying the tax that the government charges on every beer sold, if so he's very generous. Just my two cents, I've been thinking about opening a Brew your Own, and have been looking into all these factors. I'm just saying make sure you understand everything from the business, government, brewing sides and then think about it. This is in need of more planning and maybe a few years out after you figure out all the variables and laws. Again just my two cents. But if you do go with it I wish you the best of luck! :mug:
 
If you brew 4 days a week you can produce 8-12 barrels on that system. Unless you want to brew more often consider that your limit. I can't tell you whether that's enough since I don't know how much you'll be able to sell.

Each barrel = 2 kegs

Are you planning on kegging or bottling or both?

Just kegging. In fact, my friend would be happy to use the cornies that I currently use.

I know it sounds crazy, just thinking that since I already own the building and already have a customer... I could start with relatively low risk, and grow from there.
 
If your serious about doing this, you really need to educate yourself. You can't judge off what your friend says he can sell. You really need to do market research, find out costs, competitors, because when you get to that level you are going to be at you do not brewing the same way you do your 5 gallon batches, fermentation is totally different and there is ways you can produce beer multiple times faster than you currently do. You have to worry about the water/sewer supply going into you business. I'm also pretty sure that licensing is going to be many times more than $1k or everyone on this forum would be selling their own beer. Plus you have to run everything by the health department, they will question every ingredient that you put in that beer. You have to know all the chemical components of your beer and quality control, you defiantly have to have quality control. Right now it sounds like you are only doing extract and your talking about all grain. Take a look at the all grain section and all the first time all gainers and all the issues that we all deal with. I've been brewing for four years and just ran into my first water chemical issue. Try to create the same exact beer two, three, four, etc. times in a row. Then think about getting serious. Also think about writing a business plan, or entering into some homebrew competitions. Obviously I don't know what your friend has going on or if he's going to be paying the tax that the government charges on every beer sold, if so he's very generous. Just my two cents, I've been thinking about opening a Brew your Own, and have been looking into all these factors. I'm just saying make sure you understand everything from the business, government, brewing sides and then think about it. This is in need of more planning and maybe a few years out after you figure out all the variables and laws. Again just my two cents. But if you do go with it I wish you the best of luck! :mug:


Sage advice. Points well taken... And no, I am not pulling any triggers. Just trying to ascertain whether the idea merits the research you suggest.

Note: yes, I am an all grain brewer but far less experienced than most here. However, I am the founder and owner / operator of an ongoing successful business. I'm also a very resourceful mechanical engineer.
 
Just kegging. In fact, my friend would be happy to use the cornies that I currently use.

I know it sounds crazy, just thinking that since I already own the building and already have a customer... I could start with relatively low risk, and grow from there.

He might, but other places probably won't. Kegs are expensive :(.

You pay taxes on every barrel you produce. Plus energy costs.

You'll need a glycol unit to chill all the fermenters.

There are allot of costs that start to add up.

You sound serious so I wish you luck. Just be sure to research and come up with a solid business plan.
 
Just kegging. In fact, my friend would be happy to use the cornies that I currently use.

I know it sounds crazy, just thinking that since I already own the building and already have a customer... I could start with relatively low risk, and grow from there.

keep in mind.. YOU (the brewery) can't sell direct to the bar. you are required by law to sell to a distributor (gotta love the 3 tier system). they in turn sell to the bar. so you really need to find a distributor that will carry your beer, in a format that not only the one bar will accept but that other bars would accept.
 
keep in mind.. YOU (the brewery) can't sell direct to the bar. you are required by law to sell to a distributor (gotta love the 3 tier system). they in turn sell to the bar. so you really need to find a distributor that will carry your beer, in a format that not only the one bar will accept but that other bars would accept.

Certain states allow self distribution with restrictions, usually according to production numbers and on premises sales. Does GA require you to go through a distributor?
 
I wish it was easier in Ga... I would have done a small scale brewery/meadery years ago. the beer industry is a cut throat world...not really sure I want to step into that one on a large scale. Until that day comes.. I'll just continue to brew for me and my friends
 
Oh, I agree about that... I was mostly talking about variable costs. If one has low variable costs, why share and invite more competition?

The licensing requirements are pretty straightforward on the web.

Gotcha... I mis-read part of the original post... Sorry... :drunk:

Our local homebrew club has done bulk grain buys and bulk hop buys from some of the major distributors (can't remember the names at the moment) and I would guess that is how the "big boys" do it...
 
There may also be a minimum annual production requirement that will force you to produce more than you can sell to a single bar.

Additionally, you'll need a TTB license and compliance with all of their requirements. Don't forget the several joys of your health code inspections, annual license renewal fees, bonds you will have to pay up front, insurance, etc.
 
If you are still an extract brewer, I would consider taking a year to learn how to brew all grain before spending thousands on a big brewing setup. It is a whole other world of complexities, recipes, processes needing to be learned. It would really be a sad experience to go through the learning process in a multi-barrel setup. Another issue is the costs go down significantly once you brew all grain and buy in bulk.
 
dont get me wrong, i'm no expert. but wouldn't it be easier to produce on that small of a scale if the Bar converts over to a BrewPub? then he hires you to be the brewer part time? a two barrel system with a couple of fermenters and you can produce 1-2 types beers consistently for one bar. with the right amount of space its possible.

i dont know GA law, so it may be just as hard.

on the other note, after understanding basic laws and how much it costs the next thing i would do before investing in a whole brewery is seeing how much it would cost to get your stuff brewed at another brewery. if you are not looking to make money (at first) but simply get your beer into the market (through your friends bar) just having the beer commercially available and start selling/market it will help you minimize losses.

If your buddy says he can sell 50 gallons a week (almost 2 barrels) and you can get a brewery to make it and get it distributed for the same cost as his normal kegs, you can totally get them to do a 7 bbl batch (maybe even 15 bbl) without any large financial loss. plus it can give you some kegs to go out and sell at half price or something to other places and see if you cant get a market hold.

i know of some local place that have their own beer produced by Stone Brewing here in San Diego. The bar on San Diego States campus has their own beer that is made locally. so i cant imagine its really THAT expensive. might be a great way to start up.
 
yep... small scale would be easier.. brewpubs in GA require that 50% of their income come from food. so unless his friends bar makes a killing on food already then he would have to go into the restaurant business too. the distribution problem pops back up having it brewed by another brewery to be sold at his friends bar. sadly, most distributors are very much loyal to the big 3. its hard as hell to break into the business.. Georgia just makes it harder.

as far as growlers.. glad to see ONE place filling then. the laws just started allowing it
 
Having a bar converted to a brewpub for less than a barrel in beer sales per week is unlikely.

Having your beer brewed by another brewery is a good way to start. The major up front costs are kegs and ingredients. The distribution process might not be too bad if the brewery has a good relationship with a distributor.
 
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