Why start fermentation at higher temp?

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okiedog

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The Classic Pilsner extract kit that I am fermenting came with Saflager S-23 yeast (51-59F). The kit instructions said to hold fermentation temp at 60 - 68F for 3 days, then drop down to 50F for 4 weeks. Is this normal for Pilsner or this yeast, or are the instructions wrong?
 
it is used to compensate for a smaller starting yeast culture

fermenting warmer is likely to result in a less clean flavor profile that could require extra lagering

ideally you would pitch a large yeast starter or multiple packets of dry yeast based on mr malty or yeastcalc, aerate well and pitch at or just below your target fermentation temperature
 
Thank you. I guess that explains why the instructions say that after the 3 days at 60F to hold it for 4 weeks at 50F. Will the 4 weeks at 50F clean up some of the flavor? It has been in primary now for 2 weeks, and has just finished a D-rest. Ready to rack to secondary. Is there more that can be done to improve the flavor profile?
 
you can leave it at the d-rest temp for a few extra days if it tastes like it still has some off flavors - once you start lagering at mid-30s or so the yeast won't be cleaning up the byproducts as much
 
IDK why, but yeast mfrs recommend the weirdest crap. Most of us here pitch on the LOW end of the spectrum (with proper pitching rates, ie. multiple packs or vials if needed, or a starter of adequate size). Letting the beer warm when it's almost to FG is fine and even desirable with lagers. After the Diacetyl rest, you'd then lower a lager down to near freezing (say high 30's) and let it clear for a good long while, if you want.
 
Actually it is the brew kit instructions from a HBS that say to ferment between 60 - 68F for the first 3 days. Also, no mention of a starter or re-hydrating the yeast.

This is what I have done so far:

Brought to room temp. and re-hydrated 11.5g pack of Saflager S-23, pitched at 72F
59 - 60F for 3 days, then dropped it down to 48 - 50F for 8 days
58 - 60F for 4 days D-rest
now at 49F; can hold 48 - 50F, but no refrigeration available yet - maybe in 1-2 weeks

Would like to rack to secondary to free up primary, but can wait another week if that is advisable? Thanks so much for all the advise.
 
Actually it is the brew kit instructions from a HBS that say to ferment between 60 - 68F for the first 3 days. Also, no mention of a starter or re-hydrating the yeast.

This is what I have done so far:

Brought to room temp. and re-hydrated 11.5g pack of Saflager S-23, pitched at 72F
59 - 60F for 3 days, then dropped it down to 48 - 50F for 8 days
58 - 60F for 4 days D-rest
now at 49F; can hold 48 - 50F, but no refrigeration available yet - maybe in 1-2 weeks

Would like to rack to secondary to free up primary, but can wait another week if that is advisable? Thanks so much for all the advise.

Kits are notorious for being misleading. I'd guess that most of the experienced brewers on this site pitch at the lower range of ferm temps and let the beer slowly do it's thing, then raise temps as it nears final gravity (to clean up, for both Ales and Lagers). Some don't raise the temps at the end, but for lagers in particular it's a good idea for D-rest.
 
Sounds good. You guys have some good advice and a lot of experience. This is a great forum for beginners like me to learn form experienced brewers. I'll do the best I can with this batch and give it some time. I'll be a little smarter when I ferment the next one. Thanks for all the help.
 
Okay, so yesterday I racked this to secondary to free up my primary for a brown ale. I took an SG, which turned out to be 1.019. Target SG is 1.012. The taste is good, with no noticeable off flavors. Why would the SG be off that much? OG was 1.054 vs. expected 1.046. I'm hoping it finishes a little closer to expected FG during secondary.
 
Okay, so yesterday I racked this to secondary to free up my primary for a brown ale. I took an SG, which turned out to be 1.019. Target SG is 1.012. The taste is good, with no noticeable off flavors. Why would the SG be off that much? OG was 1.054 vs. expected 1.046. I'm hoping it finishes a little closer to expected FG during secondary.

when's the last time you took gravity? You should really leave it on the yeast until you get stable readings over a few days. What made you think it was time or that it should be "done" right now? The last few points can take some time. At this point, moving it to secondary reduced the available yeast, so you might want to raise the temp a few degrees and pray to the yeast gods. Ideally it would have been better off to finish in primary first.
 
higher OG can result in higher FG dep on the attenuation range of the strain

mash temp etc could be a factor as well

try keeping it in the mid 60s for a few more days to see if it goes down any more before lowering to lagering/lower temps
 
Took gravity sample 2 days ago when racking to secondary. It had been in primary for 17 days, including 4 days d-rest at 58-60F. Sounds like I should have just left it in the primary at that temp for a few more days, and taken gravity reading before deciding to rack it. There was little or no activity from the airlock that I could tell. I wanted to make the primary available for an ale, but I know now I should have waited. Warming it up now (as you suggested), to see if it will finish lower.
 
What can be done with a beer that has been bottled but tastes too sweet because it didn't fully ferment do to under pitched yeast? Are the remaining sugars still fermentable?
 
That's the way I brew my Kolsch,,, low 60's for a week, a Diacetyl rest for 2 days and then lager...
 
Well this Pilsner ended up with an FG pf 1.018 and has a taste that is too sweet. It was only my 2nd batch and I didn't know what to do at the time, so I bottled it and hoped it would improve with bottle conditioning. After 3 weeks bottle conditioning at 60 - 70F, and 1 week in the fridge there is not much improvement. I'm wondering if a few more weeks cold conditioning will help it, or am I just wasting time and fridge space?
 
There is some hope for this Pilsner. The last bottle sampled tasted not sweet, but yeasty. So I'll let it chill for a month and try it again. I guess it does pay to be patient.
 
:off:DPBISME, I've been wanting to try brewing a Kolsch if I could find a good AG recipe. Except for descriptions I've read, I really don't know what Kolsch is like, but a lot of people seem to like it. Fermentation temps in the low 60's, would be fairly easy for me to maintain right now.
 
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