IPA flavor degradation

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FlapjackAM

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I made a Ferocious IPA kit last month and when I initially tasted it, a few days in the bottle, it was pretty great. It could have been a bit more balanced, so I set 12 or so aside to see if the hop flavor would blend a bit more. Last night, after it had been sitting another week and a half or so (six weeks since bottling) it has a cidery flavor to it, and the hop bitterness has been replaced by a tart unpleasant bitterness. Is this what happens to IPA's over time? I've read they degrade. Or is it a process thing? Infection? I have another batch fermenting and would like to avoid this happening again if possible.

:mug:
 
Did you happen to leave the 12-pack in the light/sun?

Hop flavor and aroma are going wain in time. Sun light can cause pretty fact 'skunking' according to the interwebs.
 
I tried a few, they all had that same taste. They were sitting in my closet so no sunlight.
 
corpsman619 said:
Did you prime with table sugar? You say that the ones you drank first were "pretty good" what was wrong with them?
Click to expand...

I used corn sugar. I said 'pretty good' because they could have been a little more balanced in my opinion, but overall I was happy. Good hop flavor and aroma. These I had last night had a complete breakdown it seems.
 
Phreak said:
This made me chuckle. Picturing beer having a breakdown...maybe it was hop tears and stressed yeast causing your off-flavors? :D
Click to expand...

Maybe it didn't like me calling it imbalanced...
 
Cidery meaning like vinegar? Could be an acetobacter infection. Hop aroma and flavor will definitely fade while bitterness will remain but not sour, tart or cidery................
 
duboman said:
Cidery meaning like vinegar? Could be an acetobacter infection. Hop aroma and flavor will definitely fade while bitterness will remain but not sour, tart or cidery................
Click to expand...

I'm pretty meticulous with sanitizing but maybe my method of putting my bottles in the dishwasher has something to do with it. Would it take 6 weeks for an infection to show itself? I don't think I would quite call it vinegar but definitely tart and cidery.
 
FlapjackAM said:
I'm pretty meticulous with sanitizing but maybe my method of putting my bottles in the dishwasher has something to do with it. Would it take 6 weeks for an infection to show itself? I don't think I would quite call it vinegar but definitely tart and cidery.
Click to expand...

IMO if you are using the dishwasher to clean your bottles it's not very effective as it's almost impossible to get up into the whole bottle.

What are you using to sanitize?
You should rinse the bottles immediately after pouring with hot water and drip dry. If there is funk you need some PBW/OXY and a brush and on bottle day use star San and don't let it dry and don't fear the foam

Yes infections in a bottle can take that long to arise:(
 
duboman said:
IMO if you are using the dishwasher to clean your bottles it's not very effective as it's almost impossible to get up into the whole bottle.

What are you using to sanitize?
You should rinse the bottles immediately after pouring with hot water and drip dry. If there is funk you need some PBW/OXY and a brush and on bottle day use star San and don't let it dry and don't fear the foam

Yes infections in a bottle can take that long to arise:(
Click to expand...

I use idophor to sanitize, but not the bottles. I do rinse immediately after pouring but there could be something in the dishwasher messing me up. I always said I would use it until something went wrong... Ill have to try a different method this time.
 
You mean you aren't sanitizing your bottles? That's just a bad idea.....

After you pour, rinse thoroughly and store in a case or something upside down.

Get a bottle tree and vinator. On bottle day, fill the vinator with stars san mixture and squirt a few times into each bottle and place on bottle tree. Don't allow to dry!

Grab a bottle and fill with beer and cap. You're done! Keep all the caps in a star San mixture to grab as you cap.

This is my method when I bottle and have done over 150 batches this way-not one infected batch.
 
Ya I agree. Stop using the dishwasher. Grab a bottle tree and sanitize with StarSan. It's instant, food grade, and actually the yeast love it. IPAs don't age well and should be consumed rather quickly. Not saying to binge drink, but the longer they sit, the more hop degradation you'll get in the bottle.
 
FlapjackAM said:
I made a Ferocious IPA kit last month and when I initially tasted it, a few days in the bottle, it was pretty great. It could have been a bit more balanced, so I set 12 or so aside to see if the hop flavor would blend a bit more. Last night, after it had been sitting another week and a half or so (six weeks since bottling) it has a cidery flavor to it, and the hop bitterness has been replaced by a tart unpleasant bitterness. Is this what happens to IPA's over time? I've read they degrade. Or is it a process thing? Infection? I have another batch fermenting and would like to avoid this happening again if possible.

:mug:
Click to expand...

Same thing has happened to me on numerous batches...but only PM's, full extract came out normal. I soak in Oxyfree, immediate rinses and dunk in star san...I have chalked it up to chloramines in the tap water and am treating next batch with campden tablets. We'll see....what water are u using?
 
ballsy said:
Same thing has happened to me on numerous batches...but only PM's, full extract came out normal. I soak in Oxyfree, immediate rinses and dunk in star san...I have chalked it up to chloramines in the tap water and am treating next batch with campden tablets. We'll see....what water are u using?
Click to expand...

I've been using all RO so it isn't chloramines. If its not a bottle infection then I'm at a loss.
 
IMO stop using RO water. Switch to Mountain Spring water. The RO process strips out 100% of minerals found in water and the bad stuff too. The yeast likes those minerals. I only use Mountain Spring water. I like the taste and my brews are well liked by people who drink them. But this is just my 2 cents. There are water threads on HBT if you want to search them for more info.
 
I just opened a few of a scottish ale I made and it looks like the same cidery/souring is happening! Sooooo frustrating. Could a bottle infection get to that many bottles? Seems unlikely but what do I know. It just sucks having a beer you put alot of effort in taste great at the beginning and like crap a week or two later...

Has anyone else experienced this and been able to stop it from happening again? I am going to use starsan on the bottles this time, hope that works.
 
corpsman619 said:
You said you were going to use star San this time, what did you use last time?
Click to expand...

Like I said above I used poor practice with bottling and only put them through the dishwasher. I'm guessing this is the culprit but to have every bottle over two batches now... I don't know. But a spray bottle of starsan seemed like an easy sanitation method so ill start there. It's just extremely frustrating to wait five weeks for a batch and have it turn out well and then go sour.
 
worthogg said:
what are you fermenting in? secondary or no?
Click to expand...

No I've stopped using a secondary. Just a standard bucket. Only time I rack is to bottling bucket. Bottles aside the rest of my sanitation method I feel is as good as I can get it, but maybe I'm missing something. Everything I use gets sanitized with idophor.
 
In John Palmers How to brew, he says that running your bottles through the wish washers heat cycle was fine. I guess there are some unknown variables (how hot your heat cycle gets, how well your dishwasher holds its temp, etc...)
 
corpsman619 said:
In John Palmers How to brew, he says that running your bottles through the wish washers heat cycle was fine. I guess there are some unknown variables (how hot your heat cycle gets, how well your dishwasher holds its temp, etc...)
Click to expand...

Yeah I've tried to determine how hot by looking it up but it's just what came with my apartment. Either way ill cut it out as a variable by sanitizing individually. It's a starting point anyway.
 
I'm going to bottle on Tuesday, I'll be using Iodphor 12.5ppm. I would definitely rather use star San, but I got the Iodphor for free soooo.
 
Idophor takes so long to sanitize. 20-30 min. Way too long IMO. Free or not, toss it and grab some StarSan. And stay away from the dishwasher lol
 
richlong8020 said:
Idophor takes so long to sanitize. 20-30 min. Way too long IMO. Free or not, toss it and grab some StarSan.
Click to expand...

At the proper concentration, Iodophor needs only 3 minutes of contact time and no rinse. Follow the instructions on the bottle and you'll be fine.
 
Regardless using Idophore takes too long. StarSan may not be cheap but the instant sanitizing and no rinse makes it the best and easiest to use.
 
If it is an infection in every single bottle that somehow occurs at bottling then every piece of plastic you use during bottling is suspect. The dishwasher could be the culprit but I would toss all the plastic and get new stuff.
 
kaconga said:
If it is an infection in every single bottle that somehow occurs at bottling then every piece of plastic you use during bottling is suspect. The dishwasher could be the culprit but I would toss all the plastic and get new stuff.
Click to expand...

This. It's not the bottles, it's somewhere earlier in the process.

Could be racking cane, tubing, bottling bucket (disassembled the spigot recently?) or anything else. You would not see infections in every bottle otherwise.
 
Not really, when you think of it. Clean your gear with OxyClean and rinse well. If there are no big scratches in any of the plastic then you are in pretty good shape. Sanitize everything really well with StarSan.

Remember that making beer is 10% out of 100. The other 90% is all cleaning and sanitizing. Keep trying, we all have had a bad batch or two.
 
richlong8020 said:
Regardless using Idophore takes too long. StarSan may not be cheap but the instant sanitizing and no rinse makes it the best and easiest to use.
Click to expand...

To my knowledge StarSan doesn't sanitize instantly either and has the same contact time as Iodophor. Both are no-rinse sanitizers as well.

Use whatever you want, but at least tell people the truth. :)

I also don't care for the way Iodophor stains plastic. That's the reason I switched to StarSan.
 
+1 Loves IPA. I'm using Iodophor right now but only because I got it for free and cant justify spending money to get Star San when Iodophor will work. I will definitely switch when I have to though.
 

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