Can I get in trouble for this?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

MLBinID

Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
Location
Boise
I love to brew. It's one of my favorite pastimes, especially in the winter. I am trying to give people beer so I can brew more. I've told friends that they can come over to my house and take beer whenever they like. BUT...people don't want to impose or take "too much". I get that.

So what I've started doing is giving people a growler of beer if they donate to my favorite charity. I don't take any money. The donations are all done online and I have nothing to do with it. I've noticed that people feel more willing to come and take some beer if they feel like they did something for it.

As long as I stay within the 200 gallon annual limit, am I doing anything "wrong"? I've figured that if I keep going at this rate my favorite little charity will get about $400 this month off of this. Not bad for less than $100 worth of ingredients.
 
I think you're in the clear.

Think of it this way: if you got them all to donate without giving beer as an incentive then it would be fine. And since you are receiving zero funds and it's all going to charity, you aren't exactly trading the money for the beer. It's more of a, "Hey, you're awesome for donating. Here's some beer for your awesomeness."
 
How would they catch you? Your friends going to rat while they are enjoying your brew? Really not something I could see the ATF pursuing unless you were profiting and not paying the taxes. Shutting down charitable contributions wouldnt be very good PR for the ATF.
 
That's what I was thinking! I just wanted to be sure. I had a friend imply that I should have more respect for the ATF. If they want to come after a mother of 5 who is simply trying to raise money for orphans while enjoying her love for home brewing, they're more than welcome to. :)
 
That's what I was thinking! I just wanted to be sure. I had a friend imply that I should have more respect for the ATF.

Derp.... super derp. Are you sure he wasn't just implying that brewing is illegal? Because a lot of people still have that misconception.
 
Our local homebrewers and breweries did something very similar on a bigger scale. To raise money for the local Muscular Dystrophy Association, they held a tasting party for people that donated $30 or more to the MDA. It was wildly successful. I bet there was easily 400-500 people that turned up for the event. It was a good PR event for the brewers (and caterers that donated food) that got to promote home brewing and local brewing, and it raised a lot of money.
 
How would they catch you? Your friends going to rat while they are enjoying your brew? Really not something I could see the ATF pursuing unless you were profiting and not paying the taxes. Shutting down charitable contributions wouldnt be very good PR for the ATF.

I've heard of governmets busting church bingo games because they were gambling. Bummers. :mug:
 
I've heard of governmets busting church bingo games because they were gambling. Bummers. :mug:

Yes because they probably weren't playing by the rules and they were making profit without the proper paperwork. Our church has a full on casino at the fall festival along with a beer tent. We have to have all the paperwork ahead of time and pay for police officer to be onsite for security. I have worked on the casino for several years and there are rules that have to be followed.
 
In some states, brewing is still illegal.

In Michigan, it used to be legal to give away only a sixpack of beer per person per year (this has changed, it's legal to give away 20 gallons to a single individual), and in some states it illegal to give away ANY beer, let alone sell it. In some states, it's illegal to remove the homebrew away from the home it was made in. That means that even you yourself can't take your own homebrew from your home to your own campsite in your own RV!

Make sure you check your state law to ensure that even giving it away is ok. Laws very widely from state to state. Here's a brief synopsis of ID:

Updated: 1/2007
Status: Permitted, Subject to use of native grown products
Statute

Idaho statute Title 23, Chapter 5, §23-501. NATIVE WINE OR BEER FOR PERSONAL USE. Any person shall have the privilege of manufacturing wine or brewing beer from native grown products for the personal use of himself, family, and guests.
Special Provisions

N/A
State Alcohol Beverage Control Agency

Title 25, Chapter 10, §23-1001 Definitions.

As used in this chapter:

(a) The word "Beer" means any beverage obtained by the alcoholic fermentation of an infusion or decoction of barley, malt and/or other ingredients in drinkable water.
 
I know a guy who is a phenomenal brewer. He also distills a bit of spirits. Apparently a relative of his married an ATF supervisor. At a family get together, said brewer inquired about the potential trouble a home distiller could potentially get in (not distributing for sale). The un-named ATF guy responded that he would "have the arse in a sling" of any agent who wasted a few $100k in resources for a guy distilling for himself.

So if this is ok. I somehow doubt that suggesting donations to charity will cause too much trouble.
 
Is the website that takes the money the same as the charity and also a licensed not for profit?
 
Our local homebrewers and breweries did something very similar on a bigger scale. To raise money for the local Muscular Dystrophy Association, they held a tasting party for people that donated $30 or more to the MDA. It was wildly successful. I bet there was easily 400-500 people that turned up for the event. It was a good PR event for the brewers (and caterers that donated food) that got to promote home brewing and local brewing, and it raised a lot of money.

That is awesome! I thought about doing this exact thing but worried how legal it would be. I wanted to do it this coming summer and include food and live music.

My state is pretty friendly to the home brewer so I'm not concerned at all about giving it away. I was more concerned that money was involved.

Thanks for your help! I think this is going pretty successful in allowing me brew more. I've been daydreaming about turning my shed into a little brew house all day. :mug:
 
...[The federal agent boss guy] would "have the arse in a sling" of any agent who wasted a few $100k in resources for a guy distilling for himself...

This.

Maybe it's legal or maybe it isn't. Who's gonna bust the guy raising charity off a quasi-legal endeavor when there are so many bad guys out there trying to kill us?
 
Yooper said:
(a) The word "Beer" means any beverage obtained by the alcoholic fermentation of an infusion or decoction of barley, malt and/or other ingredients in drinkable water.

So, if you started with "undrinkable" water in your mash, it's not beer? In the water business, water can be taken all the water through the treatment process, but it's not considered potable or drinkable until its been disinfected.
Mash water would not need to be disinfected. The boil would do that
It's splitting hairs, but that's what lawyers do. Just a thought.
 
So, if you started with "undrinkable" water in your mash, it's not beer? In the water business, water can be taken all the water through the treatment process, but it's not considered potable or drinkable until its been disinfected.
Mash water would not need to be disinfected. The boil would do that
It's splitting hairs, but that's what lawyers do. Just a thought.

Yes, that's why I wouldn't assume that this activity, although charitable, would be ok in the eyes of the law. Maybe nothing would happen, but maybe the local law would read into the spirit of the law (and not necessarily the letter of the law) and consider it selling homebrew. If his state is a favorable one for homebrewing, allowing it to be removed from the premises where brewed and gifted to others, then it might be fine.

You can read some of the laws- they are really splitting hairs, like in a few states "homebrew" must be only consumed in the "home" and not outside of it! In some states, it'll illegal to give ANY homebrew away. I'd be very cautious.
 
Updated: 1/2007
Status: Permitted, Subject to use of native grown products
Statute

Idaho statute Title 23, Chapter 5, §23-501. NATIVE WINE OR BEER FOR PERSONAL USE. Any person shall have the privilege of manufacturing wine or brewing beer from native grown products for the personal use of himself, family, and guests.

How about this part? Are Idohans restricted to using Idaho grown-ingredients in thier homebrews? This is a fishy passage.
 
I know a guy who is a phenomenal brewer. He also distills a bit of spirits. Apparently a relative of his married an ATF supervisor. At a family get together, said brewer inquired about the potential trouble a home distiller could potentially get in (not distributing for sale). The un-named ATF guy responded that he would "have the arse in a sling" of any agent who wasted a few $100k in resources for a guy distilling for himself.

So if this is ok. I somehow doubt that suggesting donations to charity will cause too much trouble.
That's still illegal, whether the ATF enforces it or not. That specific ATF supervisor might not enforce it for a guy distilling for himself but put another ATF supervisor on that case and he will make an example out of the guy. Not something I'd hang my hat on.
 
I believe that there is a huge overestimation on the part of many contributors to this brewing forum an others as to the "trouble" that's possible from the kind of thing detailed in the OP.

Now that I've gotten that off my chest, in any case like this there's far more likelihood of falling afoul of some state or local ordinance, given the amazing hodgepodge of stuff that's accumulated in the name of Local Option* since 1933.

As a perfectly good example, given the tragedy of alcohol addiction in Indian populations, there are some local governments in Alaska that have banned everything: manufacture, importation, sale or consumption within their communities. This is completely enforceable, and consistent with the above. So if you were driving on a fishing trip and stopped within one of these towns and were caught with your six-pack, you're busted, and may be treated like a bootlegger.

*For the benefit of those reading this who may not know, the 21st Amendment repealed Prohibition only at the Federal level, and left it completely open to all states and units of local government how they wanted to handle it. This is what is called "Local Option." The results have been wholly predictable, and VERY American. Please spare me any comments about your opinion of Local Option; whatever we think of it, it's still our reality.
 
Even stranger is that in Utah you can't serve beer, (or home brew) from a container larger than 2 liters. No kegs, unless licensed by the state!
 
That native part is curious. They don't define native in that passage. Maybe they just meant of this earth:D
 
H'm. Well, since it's an Idaho law, I suspect that "native," in this case, means grown within the borders of Idaho. Unless it meant brewed by the aborigines.....in which case the "n" would have been capitalized. Or so I speculate. In any case, I wouldn't like to take a claim that "native" means "grown anywhere" before an Idaho court.
 
Yeah, I was joking and I would also assume "Idaho grown" is what they mean but given how silly that is and impractical it is to enforce they could've made it clearer.

So they catch you making beer with some grain from another state and Oregon hops and it's a crime? God forbid they find you using British ingredients.

State laws are always strange.
 
To the OP...you will be fine. Even if it might possibly seem illegal at some level the authorities don't have the resources to deal with something so insignificant.
 
Back
Top