it still tastes bad

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
thanks and yes I had two threads under two different topics. I am Desperate!
I willl go with SAFALE yeast when it arrives. Thoughts on dry pitching or rehydrating it first?
What is OR water?The water I used claims to use sediment filtration, ion exchanger, activated carbon filtration, revers osmosis, ozonation and ultra violate sterilization.

"RO Water" is water that has been filtered through a reverse osmosis system. You are looking for water with very little to no mineral content. It sounds like the water your using has that, but as I said, it needs to be for all of your water not just half of it.
 
5 Grams? Yes. That is an underpitch.

Yes, and not only that, "Munton's" is the worst yeast you could use. Cooper's would be the second-worse. Try a good quality dry yeast if you can get one- like nottingham (Danstar), Safale s04 or S05, and try to keep the fermentation temperature (and pitching temperature) under 70 degrees.

I still think it's the water. Beer is 90% water, and it's the biggest part of the flavor. could you try a batch with 100% distilled/RO purchased water and see if that fixes the problem?
 
Correct me if I'm wrong here - but banana-like flavors are typically caused by something going on during fermentation... Different yeasts can and will impact this, but most banana flavors I've heard of have been related to too-warm fermentation temps.

How confident are you that the fermenter is really staying around 65? I'm going to go out on a limb and say the bad bananas flavor probably came from one of the earlier batches; you did mention those fermented around 80, right?

Bottom line, if you're confident that you're keeping the temp consistently around 65, I'd definitely look to something other than muntons yeast - Safale makes a good variety of quality dry yeasts, and none of them have done me wrong yet, while I've heard mixed reviews on Munton's.

I'm real sure I'm keeping the fermenting below 70, about 62 to 68. I check the temp in the cooler which holds the fermenter 3 times a day. I willl go with SAFALE yeast when it arrives. Thoughts on dry pitching or rehydrating it first?
The water I used claims to use sediment filtration, ion exchanger, activated carbon filtration, revers osmosis, ozonation and ultra violate sterilization. I can get distilled and have used that mixed with the drinking water 50/50
 
I cant say as to if it is good yeast as I have never used muton's yeast. A freind of mine used it once and says he will never use it again. wish i could help more there.
 
Yes, and not only that, "Munton's" is the worst yeast you could use. Cooper's would be the second-worse. Try a good quality dry yeast if you can get one- like nottingham (Danstar), Safale s04 or S05, and try to keep the fermentation temperature (and pitching temperature) under 70 degrees.

I still think it's the water. Beer is 90% water, and it's the biggest part of the flavor. could you try a batch with 100% distilled/RO purchased water and see if that fixes the problem?

Thanks I willl go with SAFALE yeast when it arrives. Thoughts on dry pitching or rehydrating it first?
What is OR water?The water I used claims to use sediment filtration, ion exchanger, activated carbon filtration, revers osmosis, ozonation and ultra violate sterilization.
I can get several brands of bottled water and distilled. Recomondations?
 
"RO Water" is water that has been filtered through a reverse osmosis system. You are looking for water with very little to no mineral content. It sounds like the water your using has that, but as I said, it needs to be for all of your water not just half of it.

he water I use claims to be OR
 
Thanks I willl go with SAFALE yeast when it arrives. Thoughts on dry pitching or rehydrating it first?
What is OR water?The water I used claims to use sediment filtration, ion exchanger, activated carbon filtration, revers osmosis, ozonation and ultra violate sterilization.
I can get several brands of bottled water and distilled. Recomondations?

My beer jumped up a notch when I started doing 3 things:

  • Using Safale US-05 (Washing it, reusing it and making appropriate starters)
  • Charcoal filtering and pre-boiling my water
  • Learning a little patience (still working on this one)
 
he water I use claims to be OR

Yes, but you said you only used it for half of the water. Don't mix your waters, just use 100% RO Filtered, Deionized, or Distilled water all from the same company.

I recommend rehydrating your yeast. See here for more info on that.
 
The only part I've got to add is that living on an island like Saipan, I'd be wondering if the local "drinking water" place was keeping the Reverse Osmosis system serviced & maintained like they should - ie:changing out filters & membranes at regular intervals.

I'd try getting water from another source - or preboiling the water prior to using it for brewing.

You might want to see how they test the water - if the Water Station is keeping up on stuff, they should be testing the water regularly & replacing the membrane when Total Dissolved Solids start to inch up.

Good luck with it.
 
Yes, but you said you only used it for half of the water. Don't mix your waters, just use 100% RO Filtered, Deionized, or Distilled water all from the same company.

I recommend rehydrating your yeast. See here for more info on that.

thanks a lot. This is all good info. My OR water is in a 5 gal jug, so I used half of that in the boil, then used distilled to cool the boil just because I thought I should use distilled and its in 1 gal jugs so I can chill it. I also am not sure I trust the companies that make the 5 gallon drinking water here. They start with tap water, which is salty and loaded with lime.
 
thanks a lot. This is all good info. My OR water is in a 5 gal jug, so I used half of that in the boil, then used distilled to cool the boil just because I thought I should use distilled and its in 1 gal jugs so I can chill it. I also am not sure I trust the companies that make the 5 gallon drinking water here. They start with tap water, which is salty and loaded with lime.

I presume the distilled is more expensive, but I think it would be worth it to use just the distilled since you don't trust the RO maker. Reverse Osmosis systems do require cleaning and care or they will fail, if its a small shop doing it, then you might be right.
 
I presume the distilled is more expensive, but I think it would be worth it to use just the distilled since you don't trust the RO maker. Reverse Osmosis systems do require cleaning and care or they will fail, if its a small shop doing it, then you might be right.

I agree. Because of boiloff, etc, you may need to purchase 6 gallons of distilled water. but I think it would be worth it if you can figure out why the bad taste. You're using quality beer kits, you'll be using quality yeast, and the only variable is the water. Bad water= bad beer. Always. Chlorine causes a "plastic" or clove taste, but there are other flavors too from water.
 
Here's something I haven't seen asked.

Have you or do you use the pot you boil in for anything other then brewing beer?

One of my buddies brewed a batch and later when it should have been ready to drink it had that same off taste I think you are tasting. It ends up that his 10 gallon pot was used to deep fry turkeys at one point and I wonder how much that would effect the integrity of the pot and being able to clean it properly. I don't know if it would do anything. I just don't cook other things in my brew pots so there's no chance of something causing off flavors from the very first step.

The Walmart by me has Distilled water for 78 cents a gallon, Drinking and spring water for 88 cents. But they also have 2.5 gallons of Poland Spring for $2.50. The last time I bought 6 1 gallon jugs. This time I picked up 2, 2.5 gallon ones because I really don't need 6 more containers taking up my recycling containers and helping to snuff out the planet. lol
 
Here's something I haven't seen asked.

Have you or do you use the pot you boil in for anything other then brewing beer?

One of my buddies brewed a batch and later when it should have been ready to drink it had that same off taste I think you are tasting. It ends up that his 10 gallon pot was used to deep fry turkeys at one point and I wonder how much that would effect the integrity of the pot and being able to clean it properly. I don't know if it would do anything. I just don't cook other things in my brew pots so there's no chance of something causing off flavors from the very first step.

The Walmart by me has Distilled water for 78 cents a gallon, Drinking and spring water for 88 cents. But they also have 2.5 gallons of Poland Spring for $2.50. The last time I bought 6 1 gallon jugs. This time I picked up 2, 2.5 gallon ones because I really don't need 6 more containers taking up my recycling containers and helping to snuff out the planet. lol

the pot is only for brew. The RO WATER is $2 for 5 gal. The distilled is $2.50 per gallon
 
the pot is only for brew. The RO WATER is $2 for 5 gal. The distilled is $2.50 per gallon

Any other sources for RO water besides your current supplier? If not, you may have to bite the bullet once for the distilled so you can determine if water is the problem.
 
I see a lot of people talking about using distilled/RO water. I always thought that was a bad idea, because the disolved minerals will affect the taste and mouthfeel of the beer, and RO/DI water has no minerals at all. After a quick look, I found a couple of articles.

http://www.beer-brewing.com/beer-brewing/brewing_water/minerals_brewing_water.htm

http://www.beer-brewing.com/beer-brewing/brewing_water/mineral_salt_adjustment.htm

http://www.brew-monkey.com/articles/waterarticle.php

He's using extract, which has already been mashed. Distilled water or RO water is fine!
 
I see a lot of people talking about using distilled/RO water. I always thought that was a bad idea, because the disolved minerals will affect the taste and mouthfeel of the beer, and RO/DI water has no minerals at all. After a quick look, I found a couple of articles.

http://www.beer-brewing.com/beer-brewing/brewing_water/minerals_brewing_water.htm

http://www.beer-brewing.com/beer-brewing/brewing_water/mineral_salt_adjustment.htm

http://www.brew-monkey.com/articles/waterarticle.php

Water chemistry is very important in brewing. That's why I recommend using RO/distilled water for extract brewers. The maker of the extract has already determined the proper water profile, and the necessary mineral content is already in the extract. By using your local tap water, you're including minerals and salts that are not intended for the recipe. In some cases this won't be noticeable, but in others it can make a big difference.

I'm an AG brewer and use deionized water and build my water profile from there. My tap water is very hard so I don't even bother with it.
 
I agree. Because of boiloff, etc, you may need to purchase 6 gallons of distilled water. but I think it would be worth it if you can figure out why the bad taste. You're using quality beer kits, you'll be using quality yeast, and the only variable is the water. Bad water= bad beer. Always. Chlorine causes a "plastic" or clove taste, but there are other flavors too from water.

So here is the question. Assuming the RO water is in fact RO and done well and filtered as advertised and all, is OR better / worse or the same as distilled water. Keep in mind the distilled water could be sitting around fro months after spending a few weeks on a boat.
 
Water chemistry is very important in brewing. That's why I recommend using RO/distilled water for extract brewers. The maker of the extract has already determined the proper water profile, and the necessary mineral content is already in the extract. By using your local tap water, you're including minerals and salts that are not intended for the recipe. In some cases this won't be noticeable, but in others it can make a big difference.

I'm an AG brewer and use deionized water and build my water profile from there. My tap water is very hard so I don't even bother with it.

I didn't realize that about extract. I always figured they used RO/DI water so the minerals wouldn't be concentrated.
 
You should be able to get Star San mailed to you. Get it. It's a great sanitizer and needs no rinsing.

Can you do bigger boils? The closer you can get to a full volume boil, the better. I'm wondering if 2 gallon boils (which are done by many) is too much of a concentration.

What are you using to prime the beer when bottling? And how much of it?

You said all malt. I take that to mean you add no additional sugars of any kind.

Does sunlight hit the beer at any time, either during fermentation or after bottling?
 
So here is the question. Assuming the RO water is in fact RO and done well and filtered as advertised and all, is OR better / worse or the same as distilled water. Keep in mind the distilled water could be sitting around fro months after spending a few weeks on a boat.

RO/Distilled/Deionized are essentially all the same, they just get there by different processes. Any minute difference in mineral removal shouldn't be noticeable in your brew.

If your worried about bacteria in the water because of it's time on the boat, then you might want to boil all of it before using. As long as it's in an airtight container,though, I wouldn't expect any problems.
 
Water chemistry is very important in brewing. That's why I recommend using RO/distilled water for extract brewers. The maker of the extract has already determined the proper water profile, and the necessary mineral content is already in the extract. By using your local tap water, you're including minerals and salts that are not intended for the recipe. In some cases this won't be noticeable, but in others it can make a big difference.

I'm an AG brewer and use deionized water and build my water profile from there. My tap water is very hard so I don't even bother with it.

So here is the question. Assuming the RO water I have is in fact RO and done well and filtered as advertised and all, is OR better / worse or the same as distilled water. Keep in mind the distilled water could be sitting around fro months after spending a few weeks on a boat. The more water used in the boil, the less added later the better, rigth?
Just so you know, so far I've used LME, the kind sold in bulk, not with the hops or such added. I'm willing to give the dried a try, just haven't yet, the liquid is cheeper and comes with the kits I've used is all. (I actually hope the issue is yeast.) Thanks.
 
I didn't realize that about extract. I always figured they used RO/DI water so the minerals wouldn't be concentrated.

That wouldn't make much sense since they don't know what your water profile is like. In some parts of the country it's very hard and in others its very soft, they could never expect any consistency from their product.
 
You should be able to get Star San mailed to you. Get it. It's a great sanitizer and needs no rinsing.

Can you do bigger boils? The closer you can get to a full volume boil, the better. I'm wondering if 2 gallon boils (which are done by many) is too much of a concentration.

What are you using to prime the beer when bottling? And how much of it?

You said all malt. I take that to mean you add no additional sugars of any kind.

Does sunlight hit the beer at any time, either during fermentation or after bottling?
I think I can boil up to 3 gallons, I use the electric stove which is about 15 years old. It takes about 40 minutes to get 2 gallons up to boil and I don't do a roaring boil, just a bubbeling kind of boil.
I don't add sugar untill bottling, then 5 oz. corn sugar.
No sun light at all.
I've ordered iodophor to sanitize
 
That wouldn't make much sense since they don't know what your water profile is like. In some parts of the country it's very hard and in others its very soft, they could never expect any consistency from their product.

Yeah, that makes sense. I actually have a RO/DI filter setup that I used for a saltwater fish tank. Looks like I might get some new filter media for it and hook it back up.
 
The more water used in the boil, the less added later the better, rigth?
Just so you know, so far I've used LME, the kind sold in bulk, not with the hops or such added. I'm willing to give the dried a try, just haven't yet, the liquid is cheeper and comes with the kits I've used is all. (I actually hope the issue is yeast.) Thanks.

I think we may be confusing you. When I said "If your worried about bacteria in the water because of it's time on the boat, then you might want to boil all of it before using." I simply meant boil just the water to kill any bacteria. You could also boil all of it with your extract, but then you'd probably want to have a chiller.

Don't worry about the LME vs DME thing. That's not the problem.
 
I think we may be confusing you. When I said "If your worried about bacteria in the water because of it's time on the boat, then you might want to boil all of it before using." I simply meant boil just the water to kill any bacteria. You could also boil all of it with your extract, but then you'd probably want to have a chiller.

Don't worry about the LME vs DME thing. That's not the problem.

But if the boil itself is bigger, say 3 gallons instead of t2 for a 5 gallon batch, is that better for hop utilization / taste?
 
It is, but forget about that for now. Work on the main parts for now, and mess with the little stuff later, after your making good beer. As for your question about using dry yeast, i have pitched dry yeast without rehydrating and ended up with great beer.
 
The size of the boil is important. It isn't a minor detail. If you can do anything about that you'll have a better chance at making better beer.

You mentioned not being able to do strong boils. That could be a big factor in your problem. A good boil does a lot of things for a beer, from the breaking up of proteins to the better utilization and solubility of the hops. Maybe your beer is not fully cooked?

If you cannot do a bigger boil, at least try to do a stronger boil. Get a larger pot that can handle more activity so it doesn't boil over easily.
 
Your takeaways from this should be:
Use good, quality water (preboiled)
Use the proper amount of quality yeast (rehydrated)

I'd start there and limit the impact if those variables.

Like Yooper said, "beer is 90% water"
... And I'll add: without the proper amount of good, quality yeast.... It's not beer.
 
Your takeaways from this should be:
Use good, quality water (preboiled)
Use the proper amount of quality yeast (rehydrated)

I'd start there and limit the impact if those variables.

Like Yooper said, "beer is 90% water"
... And I'll add: without the proper amount of good, quality yeast.... It's not beer.

Thanks to you and others for all the advise. Just one more thing, as to yeast. IF the issue is poor quality or not enough yeast, what will the beer look like and taste like?
 
You can search around for flavors from underpitching.

I have used muntons yeast twice, once in my first batch and once again in an IPA that is still in primary. I have heard nothing but bad things about it, but its the only dry yeast my LHBS (more of a kitchen supply store) has dry.

I don't know as much as a lot of other people on here, but you seem to think its the yeast, and I do as well. I would change that first, before you worry about anything else.

My first batch with muntons was an amber ale, that just has a strange bitterness, that i can play off as over bittered from the hops, but its not that. Its hard to describe, but i think its the same flavor. Is it more of an aftertaste type of thing?

If I were you I would brew a couple batches that are going to be quick and simple so you can figure out what it is before diving into something bigger. Something like a wheat, using a liquid yeast if available for you. I know everyone says to make starters, but I have yet too, and none of my other batches with White Labs or wyeast have had the same flavor.

IF that isn't it, but I think it might be, you might try a basic partial mash brew. Or even a small batch all grain. It could be that your extract isn't fresh enough.


Once again, I am not as experienced as many of the other posters, and they are the ones I go to for help, BUT, I think that the underlying problem is something more basic than your water, boil size, sanitation processes, etc.

Also I more clear description of the taste might help. Its probably something difficult to pinpoint, but is the beer drinkable at all?
 
Thanks to you and others for all the advise. Just one more thing, as to yeast. IF the issue is poor quality or not enough yeast, what will the beer look like and taste like?

My batch with muntons was very hazy (probably not from the yeast), very little aroma (again not the yeast), a decent taste, bitter up front, but overly and stranely bitter at the end, a strange bite sort of that goes pretty well with tobacco, but when you are just drinking the beer it isn't something I would describe as pleasant.

Also another thing about it, that I have only found from that batch, is it gives me a very very full feeling in my stomach for about 25 minutes after I drink it, but only sometimes. A friend has commented on that too. It is just an amber ale so its not that heavy, and I have drank a lot of it pretty quickly and haven't had the effect again. I think it might just be my stomachs reaction to yeast, but I don't know.


Sorry if a lot of that is irrelevant, but if thats what yours is like, then it might help out
 
You can search around for flavors from underpitching.

I have used muntons yeast twice, once in my first batch and once again in an IPA that is still in primary. I have heard nothing but bad things about it, but its the only dry yeast my LHBS (more of a kitchen supply store) has dry.

I don't know as much as a lot of other people on here, but you seem to think its the yeast, and I do as well. I would change that first, before you worry about anything else.

My first batch with muntons was an amber ale, that just has a strange bitterness, that i can play off as over bittered from the hops, but its not that. Its hard to describe, but i think its the same flavor. Is it more of an aftertaste type of thing?
If I were you I would brew a couple batches that are going to be quick and simple so you can figure out what it is before diving into something bigger. Something like a wheat, using a liquid yeast if available for you. I know everyone says to make starters, but I have yet too, and none of my other batches with White Labs or wyeast have had the same flavor.

IF that isn't it, but I think it might be, you might try a basic partial mash brew. Or even a small batch all grain. It could be that your extract isn't fresh enough.


Once again, I am not as experienced as many of the other posters, and they are the ones I go to for help, BUT, I think that the underlying problem is something more basic than your water, boil size, sanitation processes, etc.

Also I more clear description of the taste might help. Its probably something difficult to pinpoint, but is the beer drinkable at all?

Thanks. Its a very hard taste to discribe, and in some batches its not as bad as some. One I thought was almost good, definately drinkable but there was a trace. Others I thought were just bad, some people thought were fine or at least drinkable. But every batch, every recipe seems to taste the same and be very cloudy, the latter comment is an observation for diognosic sake, if it looks like mud but tastes good, I can live with that.
Liquid yeast will not survive the trip I don't think.
 
Have you done any searches on "extract twang" to see if that fits the bill? I still think your yeast and water can help you, but check it out and how to minimize it.
 
Maybe I missed it reading the entire thread...so sorry if I'm repeating anyone.

The OP says he steeps his grains at 165, I always thought that at higher temps than 160 you get astringent off flavors. Also, you can get the astringent off flavors by squeezing you grains after they have been steeped.
 
Back
Top