Water Chemistry Question (sorry)

Alright. After so many years of brewing I'm ready to do it. I'm going to attempt to "build" my water. I've always used my tap water (325+ ppm hardness) and had some really great success, although my lighter beers are always a little off. My last batch (a wit), I used straight R/O water and it turned out great, but I understand that's not a good brewing practice either.

Generally I understand most of the brewing science, but water chemistry makes my head hurt. So here are my questions:

1. What should I expect from using "better" water? Better flavor? Better efficiency? Better fermentation? I would like to get better hop flavor. I always have problems with that...

2. Is there a good starting point, a sort of basic brewing water that can be built with salt additions from R/O Water? I have the morebeer calculator, but I'm not sure what to build my water too. I'd like a water that I can use generally for light beers, one for dark beers, and one for hoppy beers (I'm trying to start simple, for my simple mind )

3. This is a total noob one; Do I need to heat (boil?) the water to make the additions?

I'm looking to take my good beer and turn it into great beer, without going nuts to begin with. I'm not looking to "recreate" any particular location since I've never tasted anything from Burton-on-Trent, or Munich, etc. I just want that "next level" of brewing.

Please help, I'm sure this is a redundant post, but I couldn't find much basic stuff anywhere.

This calculator has a universal brewing profile. I favor a lot more sulfate, and sodium is completely unnecessary IMO, but it's a good starting point.

I've seen this calculator before. I don't see the "universal" brewing profile. Just the usual european locales. What am I missing?

You have to let us know if you're extract or all grain brewing.

I like to use this one:

http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/

Same as the posted one, but the posted on zeros out if you hit enter. Annoying.

You can expect the best beers you have ever made. The water profile is what makes a beer match a style perfectly. It has everything to do with flavor and mouth feel.

I don't efficiency will change dramatically, although water with an imbalance in the residual alkalinity can adversely effect you beer. Pay very close attention to the RA and try to stay within the balanced area, and then work towards the extremes until you reach your RA.

My process is as follows. I add all of my salts to 8 gallons of water and heat it to strike temp. The water will be slightly cloudy once you add the salts. Then brew as normal. My water is 100% RO water.

What beer are you going to brew when you build your water?

m.

curlyfat said:

I don't see the "universal" brewing profile.

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Hm.. for me it's called "-- Default Brewing Levels --".

I wrote this about a year ago, trying to come up with a decent, short, introduction to water chemistry for brewing. Maybe it'll be helpful.

944play said:

Hm.. for me it's called "-- Default Brewing Levels --".

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Ok, I'm just retarded.

You have to let us know if you're extract or all grain brewing.

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All grain (recently improved to psuedo-RIMS)

What beer are you going to brew when you build your water?

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I'll probably do a blonde recipe since I'm shooting for "clean" beer.

Thanks for the replies so far, everyone. Sorry I'm ignorant, 944 .

Here's where I'm a little amazed at: There's no chart out there anywhere that says something like, "For this profile, add this much of this and this much of that for every gallon"? Do no experienced brewers start with R/O? I suppose I could get an analysis of my super hard tap water, dilute it with distilled and go from there, but that seems even more complex than building from the ground up. Maybe I'm wrong?

curlyfat said:

Here's where I'm a little amazed at: There's no chart out there anywhere that says something like, "For this profile, add this much of this and this much of that for every gallon"?

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http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15-4.html

I get that, but I can never get all the numbers to line up for any water profile. Hasn't anyone figured out how much (in grams, teaspoons, whatever) of each salt to add to RO or distilled water for each style? Without having to play with these calculators adding this, adjusting that. What is a "standard" addition that anyone does? Just an actual measurement of salts in water that someone has found works for them? I have played with these calculators, but never get everything to line up. I don't know which things are ok to be over on, and which are ok to be under on. I just want a starting point knowing that someone else has and does use. Are the actual salt additions that people use considered proprietary, and must be kept as secret as their BBQ sauce recipe?



I apologize if I come across aggressive, I really am in the spirit of learning.

curlyfat said:

I get that, but I can never get all the numbers to line up for any water profile. Hasn't anyone figured out how much (in grams, teaspoons, whatever) of each salt to add to RO or distilled water for each style? Without having to play with these calculators adding this, adjusting that. What is a "standard" addition that anyone does? Just an actual measurement of salts in water that someone has found works for them? I have played with these calculators, but never get everything to line up. I don't know which things are ok to be over on, and which are ok to be under on. I just want a starting point knowing that someone else has and does use. Are the actual salt additions that people use considered proprietary, and must be kept as secret as their BBQ sauce recipe?



I apologize if I come across aggressive, I really am in the spirit of learning.

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You're asking for the output that the calculator(s) give you. The EZ water calculator is based on RA and Cl:SO4 ratios. You have the option to set all your mineral parameters to "0" or your distilled water dilution to 100%. I don't think you're going to find any advice on "add 1/2 gram x and 3 grams y" to obtain a given water profile. It depends on the grain bill and mash water volume. You're adding the minerals to the mash. I always have to "plug and chug" the numbers on every style, not only to get into the preferred brewing range, but also to match the SRM (RA) and bitterness of the particular style I am brewing. Nobody is being secretive. This thread is a good read on the subject, and Bobby M has some great videos as well.

Reelale said:

You're asking for the output that the calculator(s) give you. The EZ water calculator is based on RA and Cl:SO4 ratios. You have the option to set all your mineral parameters to "0" or your distilled water dilution to 100%. I don't think you're going to find any advice on "add 1/2 gram x and 3 grams y" to obtain a given water profile. It depends on the grain bill and mash water volume. You're adding the minerals to the mash. I always have to "plug and chug" the numbers on every style, not only to get into the preferred brewing range, but also to match the SRM (RA) and bitterness of the particular style I am brewing. Nobody is being secretive. This thread is a good read on the subject, and Bobby M has some great videos as well.

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Fair enough, I guess I didn't think about how large of a difference malt bill makes. You say you only add to the mash? So does the sparge water not matter? Sorry I'm so dense on this, guys. For some reason this is the one area of brewing that seems to be beyond me. Even most microbiological subjects are easy for me. :cross:

Edit: I just looked at the link. This is the post that stood out:

I use Brewater 3.0... it is fully automatic

It only asks for your starting water profile...

Then asks for your target water profile (it has a library of just about any profile you can imagine)

Once you select your target, you let it compute your salt additions itself. No trial and error... it will give you the salt amounts in grams or in tsp.

The only thing you have to do is tell it your starting water profile, then choose one of the many target water profiles... bam, it is done. I am personally not a big fan of slide rule type calculators.

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I'm pursuing Brewater 3.0. That's exactly what I'm looking for! I do like the spreadsheet, though. All these will come in handy when I become more familiar with water adjustments.

curlyfat said:

Fair enough, I guess I didn't think about how large of a difference malt bill makes. You say you only add to the mash? So does the sparge water not matter? Sorry I'm so dense on this, guys. For some reason this is the one area of brewing that seems to be beyond me. Even most microbiological subjects are easy for me. :cross:

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Actually it's the mash water volume, but that does correlate directly with the grain bill. I no-sparge, so I can't help you with the sparge additions. I'm sure someone else with more experience will chime in. IIRC, water additions are only for flavors (i.e. chlorides and sulfates) the mash additions are for both pH and flavor. Yeast love Mg, the lower the Na, the better, and sulphates enhance bitterness. Good tips I received from a professional brewer. Good luck.