degerminated corn grits or corn meal

Well, I'm plannig to brew a Classic American Pilsner this weekend and wanted to use ungelatinized corn instead of corn flakes. But I have a hard time to find corn meal that is degerminized and not enriched, polenta or corn grits. I found polenta, but it was instant polenta for 3 $/lb.

Any idea what kind of store I should be looking for. If it's to involved I may just buy the flaked corn form the LHBS.

sorry I have not been around much lately. I'm pretty busy at work and even at home I don't find much time for HBT anymore. Hope that changes in the future.

Kai

Kai, isn't the problem with flaked corn that it stales very quickly? I've heard (and I know you have too) that polenta, while maybe more expensive, will yeild good results...

A quick search revealed this: http://www.harmonschristmashouse.com/Grits_Meal.htm

Corn flour or grits stale quickly if the germ has not been removed. And since this germ contains oil it should also be removed for corn that is used for brewing otherwise the head retention may suffer.

Stone ground corn flour contains the germs, but steel ground corn usually has the germs largely removed. The latter is the cheaper corn flour, but I have a hard time finding it non-enriched with vitamins and other crap I don't need in my beer.

Kai

Try Bobs Red Mill Corn Grits it is degerminated corn with corn being the one and only ingredient. It is usually in the health food section in many grocery stores

Kaiser said:

Well, I'm plannig to brew a Classic American Pilsner this weekend and wanted to use ungelatinized corn instead of corn flakes. But I have a hard time to find corn meal that is degerminized and not enriched, polenta or corn grits. I found polenta, but it was instant polenta for 3 $/lb.

Any idea what kind of store I should be looking for. If it's to involved I may just buy the flaked corn form the LHBS.

sorry I have not been around much lately. I'm pretty busy at work and even at home I don't find much time for HBT anymore. Hope that changes in the future.

Kai

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Flaked maize from the LHBS is so easy and available I wouldn't bother using anything else. If you don't want to avoid a cereal mash try a national brand like Quaker at the supermarket. I think, not 100% sure, that it's de-germed.

better late than never, eh bobred?

Bobred said:

Try Bobs Red Mill Corn Grits it is degerminated corn with corn being the one and only ingredient. It is usually in the health food section in many grocery stores

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Seriously?

I sure as hell hope Kai has found his grits, brewed, and drank this beer a long time ago.

So this is two years old but I still want to know: why ungelatinized corn instead of corn flakes?

hardrain said:

So this is two years old but I still want to know: why ungelatinized corn instead of corn flakes?

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Why does a dog lick its balls? - Because it can.

I don't like taking shortcuts and using corn grits gives me a chance to play around with cereal mashes.

Kai

Kaiser said:

Why does a dog lick its balls? - Because it can.

I don't like taking shortcuts and using corn grits gives me a chance to play around with cereal mashes.

Kai

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I always thought is was "why does a dog lick himself"?




...because he can't make a fist.

There is always plain old corn starch. It might be a little expensive from the grocery store, but I did quick look on the web and it can be found in larger sizes for under $1 a lb. Of course this might gel up a little on you. That could be interesting, but you like to mash thin so it would be less of a problem. Heck, I'm curious now, maybe I'll do a micro mash with some 6-row and some cornstarch just to see what happens - ie. will the gel disappear over time as the enzymes do their thing. It might do interesting things. Glycerol is a very common protein stabilizing agent when working in the lab, and there are couple others, all "thickeners". It wouldn't be surprised if enzymes activity lasted longer at temps. above their ideal range. This could mess up the wort profile a little depending on how quickly (- slowly) it is converted.

I'm not sure what the gelling temp is, maybe it won't be a problem at all. I think for my experiment I may add the corn starch to some water and then slowly heat it up until it gels on me, and then if neccessary, cool it before adding the grain. This way I can see if it will break down the gel. I'd actually be surprised if it didn't.

Kaiser said:

Why does a dog lick its balls?

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They lack opposable thumbs.

Kaiser said:

Well, I'm plannig to brew a Classic American Pilsner this weekend and wanted to use ungelatinized corn instead of corn flakes. But I have a hard time to find corn meal that is degerminized and not enriched, polenta or corn grits. I found polenta, but it was instant polenta for 3 $/lb.

Any idea what kind of store I should be looking for. If it's to involved I may just buy the flaked corn form the LHBS.

sorry I have not been around much lately. I'm pretty busy at work and even at home I don't find much time for HBT anymore. Hope that changes in the future.

Kai

Click to expand...

Figured I'd give a bump to this 4 year old thread, and pose some questions of my own. Kaiser, did you ever brew this CAP? What form of corn did you wind up using and how did the brew turn out?

I'm trying to put together a Classic American Pilsener recipe, and am having trouble finding anything labeled "brewers grits," which, according to John Palmer, more closely resemble cornmeal than traditional grits. I also want to play around with a cereal mash (partly because of my opposable thumbs).

I found organic cornmeal at the local Whole Foods. I have no idea if the germ is included. Anybody have any opinions if this would be good for a brew or not?

vonZwicky,
did you every get any further information on this organic cornmeal? I just picked up 4 lbs last night for a CAP but was also wondering about this question.
BB

bbbrew said:

vonZwicky,
did you every get any further information on this organic cornmeal? I just picked up 4 lbs last night for a CAP but was also wondering about this question.
BB

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bbbrew, I never found much more information on Whole Food's cornmeal. I did, however, brew with it a few weeks ago. I conducted a cereal mash pretty much as per the "Your Father's Mustache" recipe in Palmer's "How to Brew." Even though it was a very fine grind, I had no problems with the sparge once I added the cereal mash + rice hulls to the main mash.

That brew's still sitting in my sanke fermenter. I haven't even sampled or tasted it yet. Just finished cold-crashing and I'm gonna pull the airlock and reinsert the spear this weekend so I can sample and start carbing. If the head retention sucks then I can surmise the cornmeal from Whole Foods was probably NOT de-germed. I'll let you know how it turns out.

I'm actually planning on brewing another batch of this next weekend, to correct some unrelated issues with the first batch (did not hit desired gravity), but this time I'm going to try this:

http://www.bobsredmill.com/corn-grits_polenta.html

This is made from de-germed corn and has no additives. It's kind of pricey, with the shipping bumping the price of 6 pounds to about $20. It just arrived today, and it's certainly a coarser grind (which I'm not sure if that will matter much). It's the only thing I've found so far that fits the bill.

I'll post any future observations about these two CAP brews on this thread.

vonZwicky,
What was the desired gravity. The CAP article that I read in Zymurgy 2000 about this did not have a target gravity for the 7.25 lbs of pils for 5 gallons. I was looking for what I would get out of the corn meal but couldn't find anything on the potential. What did you expect to get for the 5 gallon batch?

I had those core-grits in my hand the other day. I thought $4.50 was kind of pricey for 1 1/2 lb. I found these at a local store called Nature's bin.

I picked up organic corn meal for $1 / lbs. It was in the bulk section. I guess I will to find out if its de-germed.

Post back after you taste tomorrow.

Cheers,
BB

From "How to Brew," by John Palmer:

Classic American Pilsener Style Guidelines:

OG: 1.044-60 IBU's: 25 - 40

The specific recipe "Your Father's Mustache" calls for an OG of 1.056 and lists the use of 7 pounds six row malt and 1.75 lbs flaked maize (or 2 pounds corn grits or polenta) for a 5 gallon batch. I guess there is slightly more utilization for flaked maize than grits? I never found any clarification of this elsewhere in the book. The book lists the max yeild of flaked corn at 84%, with a typical yield of 29 Ppg, but has no listing for cornmeal or grits. I've read elsewhere in this forum that utilization of corn is roughly the same, regardless of it's form. If the proportions listed in the recipe are correct, I would calculate (based on the numbers for flaked maize) a 73.5% max yield for cornmeal, with a typical yield of 25.4 Ppg. I don't know which is correct.

My OG was 1.049. When I read it I was disheartened that I came up short of the 1.056 the recipe calls for, but now that I'm looking over my calculations again (for the first time), I realize that I crunched the numbers shooting for 1.052 (the center of the style's range), and not 1.056. So my efficiency wasn't as far off as I thought. Oh well, I'm going for a slightly stronger brew this time around.

I will post back with the results of the first tasting. I'm very curious. It would be great if the Whole Foods bulk cornmeal turns out to be ideal. It is cheap (even though it's quite a drive for me to get to).

Ok, just poured my first sample of my first CAP (which happens to be my first lager homebrew). It's a little rough around the edges, but that's to be expected since it is very early in the aging process. My current head cold may be hampering my taste buds a bit, but I'm not detecting buttery or cooked corn flavors- so I don't think the batch is ruined by diacetyl or dms.

It's hard to make any obvservations about the head retention right now because it has virtually 0 carbonation. That should change soon now that I have constant CO2 on it for force carbing (10 psi at 32F). I did crank up the gas for a minute to force a turbulent pour, and what head I did generate seems to be lingering. Maybe the whole foods cornmeal is suitable for brewing after all. I'll check it again in a week or so after its carbed, and I transfer it from the sankey to the cornies.

Early assessment: for a test run, it should make a damn fine beer, and I'll be looking forward to taking it out to some of the late spring festivals coming up soon. The next batch of CAP I brew (probably in 2 weeks), should be ready for the 4th of July.

My first CAP is carbed up, and even though it pours with a nice head, it doesn't seem to last long. I think this will make a decent beer, but I'm anxious to brew it again with corn grits that I know are degermed, and compare.