I'm thinking about getting a reverse osmosis water filtration system because i'm getting tired of filling up gallons of water off my tap at the house and taking them over to my friends where we brew. We would filter the water there off his sink but he is on well water and there seems to be a lot of calcium in it even after a regular water filter. We are making 10gal batches and the only reverse osmosis filtration systems i've seen only have 3.5gal tanks but i haven't seen how fast they fill up. Anybody out there have any suggestions on this.
reverse osmosis
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samc
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GE Merlin system will do 750 gallons a day, no storage tank as it does it on demand. More $$ than other systems but works very well.
I would first have a water analysis run on the well water to find out exactly what's in it before installing anything. You might find that simply boiling and cooling the water might be enough to precipitate out enough of the minerals. The less expensive RO water systems are usually very slow, but you could get around that by using a larger tank or container ahead of brew day.
kronik
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't bother with a RO system, there is probably a cheaper solution to the problem, I'm not sure what it is, but someone here will...probably.
zanemoseley
Well-Known Member
Here's what I have for my saltwater fish tank, Aquarium Water | Reverse Osmosis | RODI Water | ReefKeeper Water | TYPHOON III AQUARIUM RO DI 75 or 100 GPD
It will make up to 75 gallons per day if the pressure and temperature are right so it shouldn't take long for you to get what you need. I don't use mine for brewing because I don't wanna bother yet with adding back the necessary stuff into the water because this thing will absolutely strip it down to pure H2O.
It will make up to 75 gallons per day if the pressure and temperature are right so it shouldn't take long for you to get what you need. I don't use mine for brewing because I don't wanna bother yet with adding back the necessary stuff into the water because this thing will absolutely strip it down to pure H2O.
I got this RO system from Home - H2ODISTRIBUTORS.COM
Rioflow 5-Stage Reverse Osmosis System, 60 GPD w/TFC Membrane & Quick Connect Fittings - H2ODISTRIBUTORS.COM
and added the 14 gallon tank option. One thing I learned - the capacity of the tank is not what they will hold at normal house pressure (50 lbs or so) The 14 gal tank will fill about half at 50 lbs water pressure, so 7 gallons or so is max supply at one time. But that is plently for the 5 gal brew batches I work with. You can set two tanks together on the same supply line. That would provide 14 gallons or so on brew day.
Rioflow 5-Stage Reverse Osmosis System, 60 GPD w/TFC Membrane & Quick Connect Fittings - H2ODISTRIBUTORS.COM
and added the 14 gallon tank option. One thing I learned - the capacity of the tank is not what they will hold at normal house pressure (50 lbs or so) The 14 gal tank will fill about half at 50 lbs water pressure, so 7 gallons or so is max supply at one time. But that is plently for the 5 gal brew batches I work with. You can set two tanks together on the same supply line. That would provide 14 gallons or so on brew day.
rico567
Well-Known Member
That system looks like a deal....but I, too, am on a well, and our water has lots of iron and calcium. My understanding is that systems like this will NOT remove dissolved minerals such as these, but must be preceded by a softener or incorporate something called a "resin" filter.
jspence1
Well-Known Member
I have an ro unit with a 4G tank. If I want to fill some jugs I just stick the line into a container. I produce about 3 gallons an hour. I set my stove timer for 1:20 and its just about perfect for my 5G container.
How much is a unit like this all together? Will it actually fit under a sink? Some of these look pretty big, I am just imaging a 14 gallon tank alone taking a whole lot of space.
Zeno-25
Active Member
I have exactly the same deal! Got it years ago for my reef aquarium, used it later for some hydroponics, started using it for all my drinking water, and now I use it to brew beer. Buying an RO filter was one of the best purchases I have ever made.:rockin:
jonbro6956
Member
Correct. A RO system will remove almost everything. If you add a DI resin filter to it, it will remove 99.99% of everything. There are some minerals that the RO membrane cannot remove. It all depends on the water. I know some people have has success just using a carbon filter and a DI resin filter. No waste water and it can produce a lot more water than 75gpd.
Synovia
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but you'll burn through resin extremely quickly. IIRC, theres only about 3000-5000 ppm-gallons in a standard 10" resin container, so if you're pumping tap at it (from 75 ppm to about 1200 in arizona), you're gonna only get from 3 or 4 gallons (in AZ) to about 50 gallons before that $10 cartridge runs out. Its work getting an RO membrane in front, just for the savings in DI cost
So can someone point me in the right direction to a specific model or package that would be good.
I know the wife would be happy to have nice water at the sink to drink and I would like to brew with it. Is the tank necessary or can you just pour on demand when you need it. I realize the flow rate will be slower but I don't think I have room for a tank under the sink.
This is $100 is that all one needs?
I know the wife would be happy to have nice water at the sink to drink and I would like to brew with it. Is the tank necessary or can you just pour on demand when you need it. I realize the flow rate will be slower but I don't think I have room for a tank under the sink.
This is $100 is that all one needs?
sharpstick
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have an undercounter RO system with a 3 gallon tank. i fill up gallon jugs ahead of time.
i started noticing incomplete attenuation in some wine and beer and switched to a cheap inline charcoal filter on a garden hose so the water isn't mineral depleted.
i started noticing incomplete attenuation in some wine and beer and switched to a cheap inline charcoal filter on a garden hose so the water isn't mineral depleted.
Sounds like you just need to put some calcium back in the water.
jonbro6956
Member
That's why it depends on how clean your water is before the cartridge. Most people can get away with using 2 sediment filters (a 5 and a 1 or a .5), a carbon filter, and then a DI cartridge and that is probably overkill (I use this setup for my brew without the DI and a RO/DI for my aquariums)
You can buy a refillable DI cartridge and buy the resin in bulk and you can also bake the spent resin to bring it back to life.
Zeno-25
Active Member
So can someone point me in the right direction to a specific model or package that would be good.
I know the wife would be happy to have nice water at the sink to drink and I would like to brew with it. Is the tank necessary or can you just pour on demand when you need it. I realize the flow rate will be slower but I don't think I have room for a tank under the sink.
This is $100 is that all one needs?
Could you provide a link to the item? It doesn't look like that one even has an RO cartridge, only a mechanical stage and a DI stage. I could be wrong though.
If you're going for small and economical, this is the one I'd recommend: Aquarium Water | Reverse Osmosis | RODI Water | ReefKeeper Water | RO MIGHTY MITE SYSTEM 50GPD
Or this one, if you fell like using a bit more $$$ and space: http://www.airwaterice.com/product/1WATERCOP/WaterCop_5_Stage_Kitchen_RO.html
Really, you need a sediment and carbon stage before the RO stage to prolong the life of the RO membrane. Sediment and carbon cartridges are cheap to replace, RO membranes not so much. Also, without a reservoir tank you'll be waiting a while to fill up even a glass of water. It works, but you'll be standing there for a few minutes just filling up the glass.
Here is the link:
H2O RUS-200 Twin Housing Under Sink Filter w Matrikx Pb1 & KDF/GAC cartridges - H2ODISTRIBUTORS.COM
This was just an example though, I have no knowledge of this stuff. It sounds like for $150 I could have a undermount sink unit that produces 50 gallons a day though, if I was standing there with the tap open all day I suppose. How big is the tank on this?
http://www.airwaterice.com/product/1WATERCOP/WaterCop_5_Stage_Kitchen_RO.html
I am just wondering if it is possible to get like 10 gallons in a morning for brewing?
Zeno-25
Active Member
That one does not have an RO feature. It would be a good filter, but if you're going to spend the money you might as well spring for the RO stage. Heck, they even filter pathogens. There was a boil order for my city a few years back and as long as I drank the RO water, boiling was unnecessary. It's just so useful to have in so many ways.
I'm guessing the tank on that one holds no more than a couple gallons, enough to handle a few large glasses of water before it needs to refill. The thing about RO water is that making it can be a bit of a project just due to the time required and needing to monitor something that has running water, hoses, etc. When I needed large amounts of RO water on hand at all times for my saltwater aquarium, I stored it in a huge Rubbermaid garbage can with a spigot installed on the bottom. For brewing, I can make 5-6 gallons in a couple hours just using buckets. Inexpensive plastic carboys would work good too.
sharpstick
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"pour on demand" is not an appropriate phrase. once my 3 gallon holding tank is empty, it slows down to an exasperating trickle, more of a fast drip actually. maybe if you plumbed it with a bypass valve that diverted it down to your carboy and let it run for a few hours it might work, but you better not forget or it will dribble all over your floor!
jonbro6956
Member
These guys sell great systems, RO/DI Systems. I bought mine for my aquarium through them.
Also, depending on the RO membrane, you may need to get a booster pump if you want to make water faster. A 125gpd membrane on a 30psi house system will make around 2g an hour. It all depends on the membrane.
Also, depending on the RO membrane, you may need to get a booster pump if you want to make water faster. A 125gpd membrane on a 30psi house system will make around 2g an hour. It all depends on the membrane.
I am really looking at the system you referenced. I am just wondering if you can buy standard 10 inch filers for these or do you have to stick with buying them from the filter guys?
whitescout
Well-Known Member
You could do a search for the individual filters, and i am sure you could find them online. Just make sure the filters meet the requirements. In the first kit listed, they list 2 different media filters, 1 carbon filter,( to remove chlorine that will kill the membrane), and 1 filmtec membrane. The membrane is what is actually performing the reverse osmosis.
Another important note for people interested in RO systems, is that you really want to run soft water through these systems, as hard water will shorten the life of the membrane. The membrane is the most expensive part of the system, unless you purchase a pump to make the water faster.
Another important note for people interested in RO systems, is that you really want to run soft water through these systems, as hard water will shorten the life of the membrane. The membrane is the most expensive part of the system, unless you purchase a pump to make the water faster.
I thought a RO system would turn hard water into soft by removing things such as calcium, sulfate and bicarbonate.
Well what is considered hard water. I think my HCO3 is about 180, that is not extremely hard but not soft by any means.
jonbro6956
Member
Obviously the cleaner the water is going in to the membrane, the longer it will last. It will work with any kind of water, that's the point of the system. You can run saltwater through it and it will work. That's what they were designed to do.
Just make sure that you have sediment filter(s) and carbon before it. Everything will last longer. I was making 35 gallons of water on average daily and went from 0 TDS to 1 TDS in 8 months using a 75 GPD system with 2 sediment filters, 1 carbon, RO membrane, and DI resin setup.
Just make sure that you have sediment filter(s) and carbon before it. Everything will last longer. I was making 35 gallons of water on average daily and went from 0 TDS to 1 TDS in 8 months using a 75 GPD system with 2 sediment filters, 1 carbon, RO membrane, and DI resin setup.
All this stuff is really confusing at this moment. most of the setups I see only have 1 sediment filter and 2 carbons where I see jonbro6956 has the opposite 2 sediment and 1 carbon.
Like this one for example:
199.00 - OCEAN REEF + 1 FIVE STAGE 75 GPD RO/DI
* All systems are made to order with clear 10" canister housings
* Stage One NSF rated 5 micron poly sediment filter
* Stage Two 5 Micron Matrikx NSF rated CTO/2 Workhorse carbon block
* Stage Three 0.6 Micron Matrikx NSF rated chlorine guzzler carbon block
* RO membrane 75 GPD Dow Filmtec
* Stage Five refillable cartridge with color-changing DI resin
* 100 PSI pressure gauge
* Auto shut-off (Requires Float Valve or Switch To Work)
* Membrane flush valve
* Dual TDS meter
* Quick connect fittings
* Self Piercing Saddle Valve Water Supply Connection
* Drain Connection
* Filter wrench to make cartridge replacement easy
found here: RO/DI Systems
Like this one for example:
199.00 - OCEAN REEF + 1 FIVE STAGE 75 GPD RO/DI
* All systems are made to order with clear 10" canister housings
* Stage One NSF rated 5 micron poly sediment filter
* Stage Two 5 Micron Matrikx NSF rated CTO/2 Workhorse carbon block
* Stage Three 0.6 Micron Matrikx NSF rated chlorine guzzler carbon block
* RO membrane 75 GPD Dow Filmtec
* Stage Five refillable cartridge with color-changing DI resin
* 100 PSI pressure gauge
* Auto shut-off (Requires Float Valve or Switch To Work)
* Membrane flush valve
* Dual TDS meter
* Quick connect fittings
* Self Piercing Saddle Valve Water Supply Connection
* Drain Connection
* Filter wrench to make cartridge replacement easy
found here: RO/DI Systems
conpewter
Well-Known Member
I was looking into an RO system but since my water is fine for dark beers (after a carbon filter) I just dilute it with distilled from the store when I need to. I have read that it is bad to drink pure RO water on a continual basis. You'll start to leach valuable minerals out of yourself over a long period of time. Not a problem when you make beer with it of course since you add minerals back.
jonbro6956
Member
That's a little over kill to put a 5mµ behind a 5mµ . Technically anything larger than 5mµ should get stuck at the first one and everything passes right through the second one. My RO/DI setup was 5mµ sediment, 0.5mµ sediment, activated carbon, 75gpd RO membrane, DI resin. It worked great and lasted a long time. The only issue I had was what to do with the waste water.
And like conpewter stated, you shouldn't stick to drinking this stuff all the time. All things want to be at an equilibrium, especially water. If you only drink RO water, your body will start to give up its nutrients to equal out the difference. Read up on osmosis.
And like conpewter stated, you shouldn't stick to drinking this stuff all the time. All things want to be at an equilibrium, especially water. If you only drink RO water, your body will start to give up its nutrients to equal out the difference. Read up on osmosis.
P-Lay
Well-Known Member
Hey everyone. I've installed a few RO systems in waterfalls for some of my customers here in Florida and I buy my stuff from Bulk Reef Supply. They have what they call a 150 GPD add-on, which is just another 75 GPD membrane "daisy-chained" after the first. If you want to increase the flow through an RO system you could get multiple 150 GPD membranes and housings and daisy-chain them one after another until you get the flow rate you're looking for. This could get pretty expensive though, depending on what you're looking for. You might consider the DI resin after the membrane too. On most residential membranes, the higher the output the lower the effectiveness and the DI resin will help clean that last little bit of TDS that the membrane didn't get. It all depends on how clean of water you want though.
Also, something you'll want to avoid is using RO water around copper or similar metals. It will leech out some of the metal into the water.
Also, something you'll want to avoid is using RO water around copper or similar metals. It will leech out some of the metal into the water.
Synovia
Well-Known Member
Drinking RO all the time won't do anything. Its not pure enough, and by the time it gets out of the glass, through your mouth, etc, its not anywhere near being a problem.
rico567
Well-Known Member
+1 - The idea that RO water will somehow suck nutrients out of the cells is nonsense. Our well water has LOTS of calcium and iron in it, we've used nothing but RO for drinking and cooking for over 10 years, and we drink a lot of water. I also use RO as my standard water for brewing (amending as necessary with Burton salts, etc.). Great beer and no ill effects to report here, we're almost embarrassingly healthy.
Since I already run a whole house sediment and carbon filter I was thinking about just installing the RO housing, membrane, check valve and backpressure unit in my garage. You really do want the tank though. Figure it this way, it will always have 4 gallons waiting for you. For me, I'd never need more than 4 gallons because I'm only plan on doing 25% dilutions or so. If I wanted more, I'd empty that tank into my HLT, then wait until the next day to grab the next 4 gallons. You can also set up a 10 gallon tank somewhere out of the way and install a float valve.
conpewter
Well-Known Member
Lots of articles out there about RO water. As I said, can be great for building your water to make beer.
Reverse Osmosis - Pros and Cons
A lot of the sites I see that say drinking RO water is great.... are selling RO systems.
Reverse Osmosis - Pros and Cons
A lot of the sites I see that say drinking RO water is great.... are selling RO systems.
jonbro6956
Member
If you only drink RO water and you don't get your water from any other source or in any other form, it can hurt you. The reason is due to osmosis and this is how any living cell gets it's water and nutrients. I didn't mean to start anything or scare anyone, but that is how cells work. I should have stated this before instead of saying to not drink it all the time.
I drink RO/DI water and have been for sometime now, but I also get my water from beer, rum, vegetables, fruits, soda, milk, juices, and anything that I cook using water from my faucet and I am sure that you too get water from other sources as well.
I agree that RO water is not pure, but it is 99.75% pure. This is still a difference between the water in your cells and the RO water so there is a negative difference in osmotic pressure and the cells will give up its water and nutrients to balance it out the pressure.
Again, this is only if the absolutely only source of water that you get is RO water which I would think would not be true for everyone on this forum nor 99.9% of the world.
Synovia
Well-Known Member
Its physically impossible to only get water from RO. You'd have to never eat anything that is moist.
This whole "drinking RO will hurt you" is a myth. Plain and simple. The only way it would hurt you is if you binged, and drank like 25 gallons of RO in a day. And that would kill you for other reasons.
RO is not 99.75% pure anywhere but on the backside of the housing. As soon as it goes into your tank, through your faucets, into glasses, and into your mouth, you're lucky if its 80% pure. Its going to pull things out of everything it touches. It is not a health worry, in any sort of way.
conpewter
Well-Known Member
That itself doesn't sound too healthy to me.
sharpstick
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this is all news to me, but i have it from a reliable source that if you wear a beanie made of aluminum foil, it will neutralize all harmful effects.
jonbro6956
Member
I agree that if the only water you consumed was RO water that it would hurt you. I said that in my last post. I also do agree, there are no health worries since we all get water from other sources. That is what I already said and I even apologized for not stating it earlier.
So according to your logic, I start with 1 gallon of 1ppm water, which is 99.9999% pure. Because of my storage tank, pipes, hoses, glass and mouth, I picked up 20% of that volume worth of extra stuff. So now I have a 200,000ppm concentration of something and water? Anything above 500ppm (which is 99.95% pure) is not consumable.
