Mead and High Alcohol Content vs Taste

Thanks To Poobah57 im making a new thread on this topic...

Ok, Im a noob I freely admit...but here's the deal...I want to brew up my mead with the highest alcohol content I can reasonably get without compromising the honey taste...Im thinking Id ask in here for some tips and some wrote in stone recipes! So what you old hands got in here? ;-)

Thanks To Poobah58 im making a new thread on this topic...

Ok, Im a noob I freely admit...but here's the deal...I want to brew up my mead with the highest alcohol content I can reasonably get without compromising the honey taste...Im thinking Id ask in here for some tips and some wrote in stone recipes! So what you old hands got in here? ;-)

ruger12pk said:

I want to brew up my mead with the highest alcohol content I can reasonably get without compromising the honey taste...

Click to expand...

I read these high alcohol or high SG mead posts all the time and I can't figure out what the attraction is. Yes, I'm over 50 and yes, I've been drunk my share of times over the years and I understand that young people want to party and get stupid. But I just don't understand why anyone would want to boost alcohol levels in a beverage so delicate and nuanced as mead. It's really all about balance and high alcohol tends to throw everything out of balance, not to mention resulting in lengthy aging times.

Why not just buy some MD 20-20 if you want high alcohol, or better yet, get some Ever Clear and mix it with honey and the fruit juice of your choice?

summersolstice said:

Why not just buy some MD 20-20 if you want high alcohol, or better yet, get some Ever Clear and mix it with honey and the fruit juice of your choice?

Click to expand...

I'm only 30, prolly been drunk more than I should....but not so much in the last 10 years or so....My solution to your problem....Make a good mead, and if you're just concerned with getting tossed....serve it with shots.

How high are you talking? I'm a total noob and couldn't tell you about brewing techniques, but I've had a couple excellent commercial meads that were around 20% abv. So I know that's a reasonable range where you can still have a great mead. I suspect if you're looking for a lot higher than that though, you're missing the point.

High alcohol meads do not really have a "honey" taste. They have a honey essence, but it doesn't taste like honey. Also, high moderate to high gravity mead will take a minimum of a year of aging to start getting good (~12+ ABV).

If you really like honey and want high booze... look into barenjager. It is German honey liquor and is pretty awesome at 40ABV.

You can push some yeasts like EC1118 or K1V to 18+%ABV. If you want much honey flavor then you will have to exceed that level of sugar to leave some residual sugars.
This type of mead will really stress the yeast, and if you have no problem fermenting it, it will have plenty of hot alcohols. At 1 year this type of mead might be drinkable. It will probably be best after 2, 3 or more years.

If you just want alcohol then a lower gravity mead between 12% and 14% will be easier to drink and be very tasty. If you need it more potent, then add a shot of distilled beverage.
If you want to challenge yourself to brewing a high gravity mead that you intend to age for significant time then do some studying, make a plan, write it up and ask about how it looks, plan some more, then maybe give it an attempt.

Craig

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

High alcohol meads do not really have a "honey" taste. They have a honey essence, but it doesn't taste like honey. Also, high moderate to high gravity mead will take a minimum of a year of aging to start getting good (~12+ ABV).

If you really like honey and want high booze... look into barenjager. It is German honey liquor and is pretty awesome at 40ABV.

Click to expand...

Interesting. Dansk Mjod is a Danish meadery that makes several meads with ABVs around 20%. I've had three of them. While I couldn't tell you a thing about how they do it, they all tasted like honey to me. Here's a link to ratebeer's page on my favorite of the three,
Viking Blod.

I also talked to a guy recently who said he brews meads at around 20% abv. I have no clue how his finished product tastes, but he starts with 5 lbs of honey per gallon.

patrick767 said:

Interesting. Dansk Mjod is a Danish meadery that makes several meads with ABVs around 20%. I've had three of them. While I couldn't tell you a thing about how they do it, they all tasted like honey to me. Here's a link to ratebeer's page on my favorite of the three,
Viking Blod.

I also talked to a guy recently who said he brews meads at around 20% abv. I have no clue how his finished product tastes, but he starts with 5 lbs of honey per gallon.

Click to expand...

I think you can make 20% meads that taste like honey, you just need to leave them plenty sweet, which may require adding sugar after the fermentation has finished to get the desired sweetness.

My understanding is that the 20% Danish meads are 2 or 3 years old. So age is definitely a good thing for these big meads.

I think if you are trying to achieve a good copy of one of these meads, that is a good goal. Unfortunately the OP sounded like a young noob trying to make quick rocket fuel to get blitzed with. We have all seen too many of those types of posts.

Trying to make a good copy of a really big mead is great.

Trying to make the highest alcohol beverage you can to get blitzed is wrong. This forum is about appreciating and brewing good beer/mead/wine.

Craig

Hey thank you for all the replies...first off several of you had to make one or two curmudgenly comments as If all I wanted to do was get high on my mead and wear a freaking lampshade. Im 52 and have drank plenty in my years. Im not a kid and if I have a question I would rather have decent informative answers as opposed to lectures on why the high alcohol Mead I want to drink might be lacking in Nuance! Or that I should go drink some rotgut! Excuse me fellas but I like nuance and I also like my Mead strong. I dont need or even like MD 20 20....if you do thats fine. But lets get something straight. Im not a kid looking to brew up a load of hooch for my frat homies. Now, having said that...I was looking for around 18 to 20 % in my Mead...I should have been more specific and I will be in the future as this is new to me as a hobby and Im loving it so far!
I realize any higher than that and things can go askew rather quick. Im working a one gallon batch of show mead right now that im using K-V1116 to get it started right. Id be very interested in any specific recipes or advice to a beginner to try to acheive at least 18% abv.

For those of you who gave replies I thank you from the bottom of my heart and I hope since Im new on here, that from here on we all can take what we need from here to drive our great hobby along!

Thank for all those replies regardless.....Ill be here for awhile.

I have a raspberry mead that is still fairly young..but tastes nicely like honey (and some raspberry) but has a fairly high Alcohol content. When I take a test tube sample for my hydrometer readings...and I drink the tube..I get a buzz. (I am 6'1" and 260lbs by the way)

It tastes good, and really kicks some arse in the alcohol department. I got this recipe from a friend who has been brewing mead for over 15 years. It is reallyin the category of a dessert wine..right now the S.G. is sitting at about 1.058..I expect it to finish high too. I am going to crash it soon and carb it and call it good. It tastes good where it is now.

If you'd like the recipe I can certainly give it to you to try.

Dan

ruger12pk said:

Hey thank you for all the replies

Click to expand...

Thanks for coming back here and clearing that up. You have to realize that the underage or young adult looking to make hooch in their bedroom or dorm room without caring about the quality or craft of their brewing, make frequent appearances on these forums. Your first post raised quite a few red flags. I'm glad to see it was just a misunderstanding.

I havn't made any mead that strong so I don't have any recipes. My suggestions would be to start with the stickies at the top of this subforum. The mead calculator in particular will help you figure out how much honey you need. Proper aeration and nutrients will also be very important.

Good luck

Craig

Some suggestions on getting a high ABV mead that still tastes good;

Start off with half the honey you're going to use in the must, and make staggered additions so the yeast aren't shocked by the sugar content at first.

Lots and LOTS of aeration for healthy yeast growth. Also add the recommended amount of nutrients.

Ferment cool, in the lower tolerance of the yeast.

CBBaron said:

Thanks for coming back here and clearing that up. You have to realize that the underage or young adult looking to make hooch in their bedroom or dorm room without caring about the quality or craft of their brewing, make frequent appearances on these forums. Your first post raised quite a few red flags. I'm glad to see it was just a misunderstanding.

Click to expand...

+1. Sorry if the reply offended you but as Craig said, there are a lot of high school kids that stop by here looking for an easy way to get drunk. Good luck in your endeavors but please, and no insult is intended, can you tell me the attraction you have for high alcohol meads? It just seems that that there's much more interest in high alcohol meads than there are in high alcohol beers and wines and I truly don't understand it.

There are certain wine styles, such as Port, and certain beers, such as barleywine, with high alcohol content but there aren't any specific mead styles, at least commercially or even traditionally, that are designed with a high alcohol content in mind. Yet people continually want to make them and it seems that, particularly, new mead makers want to jump right in and make a mead with 20% alcohol content that likley won't be ready to drink for years.

Please, anyone else feel free to chime in here.

Perhaps the issue is the perception of the term "high alcohol content" combined with one's personal preferences.

I enjoy a mead whose ABV ranges 13-16%. Consequently, my meads have OGs that are at (or above) 1.100. Although I consider them to have a typical wine level alcohol content, I don't find them to be excessive and they retain a very nice honey character (as can be supported by certain online brewers with which I have traded samples).

For some time I've heard good things about Redstone meads, but until recently they have not been available on the east coast (at least near my area).

Two weeks ago, I found Redstone at a Maryland store and bought a bottle - black raspberry nectar. Although pleasant tasting, it was too thin and watery for my taste - faint honey notes with a weak berry flavor. Yet, I read on Redstone's website how others rave about it.

Possibly the fact that it's only 8% ABV leaves me finding it thin & watery.

hightest said:

Perhaps the issue is the perception of the term "high alcohol content" combined with one's personal preferences.

Click to expand...

I think you're right. I always approached mead making the same way I do wine making. I use wine yeasts and all of them seem to do best in the 11% to 13% alcohol range.

Possibly the fact that it's only 8% ABV leaves me finding it thin & watery.

Click to expand...

I agree that most meads under 10% have a thin feel to them. However, lower alcohol meads do well when carbonated or sparkling. The lower alcohol meads make sense commercially though in that they don't require nearly as much aging time. Redstone seems to be doing well and they've won a lot of awards for their meads.

summersolstice said:

I think you're right. I always approached mead making the same way I do wine making. I use wine yeasts and all of them seem to do best in the 11% to 13% alcohol range. ...Redstone seems to be doing well and they've won a lot of awards for their meads.

Click to expand...

I believe we're in alignment on that issue, and one certainly can't dispute that many people enjoy Redstone mead. I'll leave their nectars on the shelf, but I will try their honey wine. As I recall that item is around 13% ABV...

Well!

I know now Ive come to the right place! Ive got a lot to read and assimilate now. My gracious thanks for all the great advice! I would like to invite you all over to the "Mead Makers Anonymous" group I started just for these very topics. But of course, thats at your leisure. I am new to Mead brewing and this forum but I intend to do the best I can at both. Thanks for the welcome!

Life is a learning experience and so far id have to say that Mead brewing has a life of its own!

flyweed said:

I have a raspberry mead that is still fairly young..but tastes nicely like honey (and some raspberry) but has a fairly high Alcohol content. When I take a test tube sample for my hydrometer readings...and I drink the tube..I get a buzz. (I am 6'1" and 260lbs by the way)

It tastes good, and really kicks some arse in the alcohol department. I got this recipe from a friend who has been brewing mead for over 15 years. It is reallyin the category of a dessert wine..right now the S.G. is sitting at about 1.058..I expect it to finish high too. I am going to crash it soon and carb it and call it good. It tastes good where it is now.

If you'd like the recipe I can certainly give it to you to try.

Dan

Click to expand...

Thanks Dan!
This sounds great! I bet it will be quite tasty! If you'd like to share your recipe, please know I will appreciate it! This is all a quest of knowledge for me. If I could Id love to sample each and every type of mead one could possible make! The only question I have is why your planning to carb it? Personal prefs or something more to the recipe?

Ok, so here is another dumb question. I was wondering...I know I wait until say Im getting like 1 bubble every 30 seconds or two weeks thereabouts to do a first racking. So after I rack it off the leeds the first time is there anything I need to add at this juncture or just reattach the airlock and let it slow bubble until it stops and begins to clarify?

ruger12pk said:

Ok, so here is another dumb question. I was wondering...I know I wait until say Im getting like 1 bubble every 30 seconds or two weeks thereabouts to do a first racking. So after I rack it off the leeds the first time is there anything I need to add at this juncture or just reattach the airlock and let it slow bubble until it stops and begins to clarify?

Click to expand...

Nothing to add at this point unless you want to add some fruit for a melomel.
You should check the gravity before doing this to ensure it is getting close to your expected FG. If the mead is stuck the extra yeast in the primary can make it easier to restart.

Craig

CBBaron said:

Nothing to add at this point unless you want to add some fruit for a melomel.
You should check the gravity before doing this to ensure it is getting close to your expected FG. If the mead is stuck the extra yeast in the primary can make it easier to restart.

Craig

Click to expand...

Thanks CB!
This is just a one gallon batch im working on here at this point. Im not sure im following the part about the "extra yeast" Do you mean to say that I should add a bit more yeast at the first rack or no?

I think I know what your saying now. Basically if im NOT making a melomel, then I should just reattach the airlock after that first rack and let it sit. Its bubbling away happily now so no stuck fermentation at this point.

ruger, Personally this is a very sweet mead..and I think it would do nicely with a bit of "fizz" in it and served almost as a champagne. It's got a nice alcohol "punch" to it..but is still sweet.

So, yeah..it's just a personal choice for this particular mead/melomel.

Dan

Thanks Flyweed!

I sorta figured that but...beings as since im as new as you can get...Im trying to leave nothing to chance. This means I voluntarily have to show my ignorance for the details of Mead brewing. Ive got 2 one gallon batches started and Im planning on firing up at least one 5 gal carboy here after xmas...so im trying to get all my ducks in a row before gittin down 2 it!

summersolstice said:

It just seems that that there's much more interest in high alcohol meads than there are in high alcohol beers and wines and I truly don't understand it.

Click to expand...

That depends on what communities you're around. Certainly among the average beer drinkers, that's true. Then again, and I'll mention the site again only because I've been very active there for years so that's my experience, take a look at ratebeer.com's top 50 beers in the world. Most of them are high gravity brews. For beer I'm talking 8-9% or higher. Those are typically my favorite beers too. I think it's a combination of complexity and intensity of flavors that leads those of us who sample and rate a lot of beers to often favor the big ones. Even the highest rated brews among those with somewhat lower abv are usually the strong flavors like IPAs and lambics.

I've sampled far fewer meads, but perhaps it's no coincidence that my favorite so far is one of the big Danish meads. Anyway... I'm off topic. Cheers!

patrick767 said:

That depends on what communities you're around. Certainly among the average beer drinkers, that's true. Then again, and I'll mention the site again only because I've been very active there for years so that's my experience, take a look at ratebeer.com's top 50 beers in the world. Most of them are high gravity brews. For beer I'm talking 8-9% or higher. Those are typically my favorite beers too. I think it's a combination of complexity and intensity of flavors that leads those of us who sample and rate a lot of beers to often favor the big ones. Even the highest rated brews among those with somewhat lower abv are usually the strong flavors like IPAs and lambics.

I've sampled far fewer meads, but perhaps it's no coincidence that my favorite so far is one of the big Danish meads. Anyway... I'm off topic. Cheers!

Click to expand...

LOL...its funny you mentioned Danish Mead...Alot of my Danish friends rather dislike their own brands and prefer the much more complex Polish Meads! Stawski Imports sells a lot of polish Meads in Chicago...

Going along the lines here i am also a beginner and also quite young "BUT" i too am also making a high alcohol mead, but since i have a long long way ahead of me i want something to lay down and drink when im around 60 or something i have 2 meads both my first ones one 5 gal and one 1 gal. The 5 gal batch is the sweet mead recipe in The Compleat Meadmaker, and the second is a polish mead that is a 1:1 ratio of honey to water both of these im planning to lay down. Heck even my baltic porter kit from NB bottled in dec 3 im planning to lay down for a bit longer.

I just made a traditional mead using K1V yeast as I live in Texas and fermented during Summer where the avg temp in my house was 78 - so I needed a yeast thet could ferment at a higher temp without too many off flavors. As a by-product - this yeast fermented my 15 lbs of honey to a little over 18% ABV mead... I went ahead and stopped the yeast with Campden tablets after fermenting was done in 3 months, then backsweetened with more honey a few days after that to bring up the honey flavor/aroma as I knew the yeast fermented so much of it. I made mine Memorial Day 2011, racked to secondary on Fathers Day, then bottled on Labor Day. Tried a tester bottle a few days ago and while it obviously needs a year or more to be at prime - the honey flavor and aroma were plenty evident.

So - if you are willing to wait for the aging - it is very possible to make 18%+ meads that are very good.

HTH,
Dan

Well it's easy enough to make a higher alcohol level mead, as we're aware, champagne yeasts will go to about 18% and there's a few yeasts floating around that will go to 20/21% with careful fermentation management.

In any case, the alcohol level isn't really an issue, because any "alcohol hot" flavours will invariably mellow out over time, or they can be masked with a little back sweetening and/or acid additions (to taste of course).

Personally, I find that I like my meads "medium" with a final gravity in the 1.010 to 1.015 area, above that and I find them too sweet to my taste i.e. honey character and a little honey sweetness, but not too much.

Either way, except the gravity numbers grading used in competitions to work out dry, medium-dry, medium, medium-sweet, sweet and dessert, there's no real standard for meads. So you can only really judge it yourself as to whether you enjoy a brew made a certain way, with the available ingredients.....

As long as the maker likes the results, then sod anyone else's opinions.....

Good day to you all.

This is my first post and to inform you all, I am very new to mead making but I do have a few years experience in standard wine making (non-honey wine). I have only made 2 batches now, and both were a sweet mead. I now have caught the mead bug and have fallen in love with the time-old drink.

To describe myself a bit, I am 24 years old and an ex-military man that served in Afghanistan, so yes I am young. Although I am young, my following comments are not to acquire a new means to get "loaded". I am simply trying to develop a drink that will cater to my tastes that include my hobby of wine making.

As I described above, I have only made 2 batches of mead and both were of a sweet mead. They were using a wildflower honey with no spices or fruit. I have tried the spiced and fruit mead's and I prefer the original mead flavor the best.

Now I have come up with a plan to create the best mead (for me) that I could think of. It would be a strong, dark, sack mead (sweet) using a rare honey that a local bee keeper harvests. The base honey would be a Buckwheat honey, which is naturally dark and rich in anti-oxidants and aromas. I think this is a great starting place for my dark mead.

The yeast that I would use is actually an ale yeast and not a wine yeast. It is made by White Labs and it is their liquid WLP099. It is capable of an ABV up to 25% (This is not how high I would like to go). With this yeast it requires lots of oxygen and lots of nutrients (twice as much). There for, after speaking with White Labs themselves, it is recommended that I use an air pump with a dry filter to add oxygen while aerating over the first 5 days of the fermenting process. It is also recommend that I start with a lower gravity must and add to it as I aerate the must over the first 5 days. This way it does not put a lot of strain on the yeast. So, pitching 3-4 times the amount of yeast is recommended but over the 5 day period.

I was also going to use a little bentonite to make the dark mead crystal clear. Also a little acid blend and grape tannin to maintain the body and crispness of the mead.

I do believe this will need to age for more than a year, but for an amazing mead that fits me perfectly, than it is worth the wait.

Any opinions, comments, help or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

If your "rare honey" is the buckwheat you mentioned, buckwheat isn't all that rare. If your rare honey is something else really rare (blueberry, avocado, meadowfoam, whatever), the buckwheat will probably overpower the flavor profile of your rare honey--it's a pretty strong flavor.

"rare" is relative. strongly influenced by geography. My girlfriend right now is up in Maine, she went to a bunch of early season farmers markets and besides forgetting to check out maple syrup prices she kept texting me about how excited she was about the abundance of blueberry honey, thats all that was at all of the markets. Up until recently she thought honey was just honey so finding something different than we have around here which is mainly clover and wildflower was fun for her.

Just read this post and decided to register and reply or though the last post of 2008 is a little old so maybe no one is interested.

First off i'll intro myself, i'm Neil and I'm in England, pretty much right in the middle, been brewing on and off for maybe 35 years (52 now) yeah I started young, might have something to do with living in England and Tax.
I've done kit beer, all grain beer, cider from our own trees, wine from kits and mead, I do kit beer at the moment as I don't have the time due to building my own house so just need to brew fast, and usually I'm that tired after work and house that any old beer will do.

Any way on mead, it's actually not that easy to ferment honey, well it is but it's not malt, pitch yeast into malt at the right temp and it's off, honey might not start so well.
I aim for around 20% but I add less than 1/2 of the honey at the start, dissolve the honey in hot water in the brew bin, I add very strong brewed tea like 8 tea bags and a bottle of lemon juice, I've also tried a brew enhancer but it only contained tannin and citric acid.
As the brew starts off I watch it carefully and as it starts to slow I add more honey I keep doing this until the alcohol content stops the fermentation, this ends up as a sipping drink which is sweet ( I like sweet drinks) if it was stopped a little short by not adding quite so much honey it would end up dry

The point of this post is not to try and add all the honey for a plus 20% mead right at the start as the yeast will be shocked and die

apologies, now I'm registered I can see newer posts.

I wouldn't use ale yeast, I use Gervin GV4 which says on the packet it's a high alc wine yeast but saying that I've just done a beer and pitched the same yeast

I do agree that the honey is added in stages

<edit> nevermind, didn't realize his post was necro'ed

Old thread I know
Just curious... anybody experimented with ice filtering like is used in making applejack?
It tends to remove off tastes and concentrate good flavors and does increase the alcohol content a bit.

Nothing wrong with wanting to make a high alcohol mead, whatever floats your boat.

I can see the attraction of having a high-alcohol batch, people pay good money for fortified wines in the 20% range, after all, and they don't tend to be college-kids (just) looking to get intoxicated but older people with a bit of spending cash. The same goes for top-of-the-range spirits such as brandies and whiskies which aren't your cheap student vodka.

Most of my meads have been between 10% and 14% abv range which is more mid-range I think, so not really high-alcohol.

The available high-alcohol (wine) yeasts I can think of are the Champagne yeast Lalvin EC-1118 and the Montpellier yeast Kv-1116.

I have only used EC-1118 in a Wine Expert Cabernet Sauvignon wine kit and the abv of that was (only) 12% and I think it tasted and smelled pretty good. I have heard that EC-1118 can compromise subtle honey flavours and aromas, though, so it might not be the best to use if you want to retain that honey taste.

I did use KV-1116 on a mead back in March, if I remember correctly, although I have not tasted any and intend to age it for at least a year in the gallon glass demijohn. That was one of the higher abv meads I made, I think.

EDIT: wow, I just realised this thread is 7 years old.

I found around 13% is best it high enough to kill most bacteria but still don't kill the flavor. I think the point most ppl are trying to say here is cause honey isn't cheap and the time for a mead to come of age is almost for ever even with lower abv%s is it worth it. Unless your making it for a special day 5 to 10 years from now and you have the time. I did a melomel for that reason. But if that's what you want. The lavin 1118 yeast is your best bet. But just don't add your honey all at ounce. Do your best to keep your SG below 1.100