aubiecat
Well-Known Member
So was I.
Alabama vote.
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So was I.
CGVT
Senior Member
Easy guys.
Like I said, I was just joking.
I grew up in Michigan and have lived all over the country. You are right, there are ignorant people everywhere, some places more than others for sure. This is my second tour (Coast Guard) in the Mobile area and there are much worse places in this country to live and raise a family. As a matter of fact this is a pretty damn good place to live. That is why I chose to finish up my Coast Guard career and move here to retire and raise my family.
I lived in Vermont for a while and I joke that I was considered to be an ultra-conservative when I lived there and when I moved to Alabama I became a bleeding heart liberal. The strange thing about that is my political views haven't changed...
Like I said, I was just joking.
I grew up in Michigan and have lived all over the country. You are right, there are ignorant people everywhere, some places more than others for sure. This is my second tour (Coast Guard) in the Mobile area and there are much worse places in this country to live and raise a family. As a matter of fact this is a pretty damn good place to live. That is why I chose to finish up my Coast Guard career and move here to retire and raise my family.
I lived in Vermont for a while and I joke that I was considered to be an ultra-conservative when I lived there and when I moved to Alabama I became a bleeding heart liberal. The strange thing about that is my political views haven't changed...
wailingguitar
Well-Known Member
...
I lived in Vermont for a while and I joke that I was considered to be an ultra-conservative when I lived there and when I moved to Alabama I became a bleeding heart liberal. The strange thing about that is my political views haven't changed...
That made me LOL
And thanks for your service... my bro is a retired Coastie, he was on the Pershing out of Mobile for a couple years in fact. You guys don't get one iota the credit you deserve!
At least they allow wine in Mississippi and don't consider equipment that could be used in the making of beer to be a felony... Basically every single household in Alabama is filled with felons in Alabama apparently.
That said, I've lived in Alabama more than anywhere at this point and while Tennessee ran a close second... Any chance of me being a bleeding heart liberal was butchered completely beyond possibility by spending a half a decade stint in California... However, I am not a huge fan of the Republican Perverts who are determined to participate and give me instructions for the privacy of my bedroom... Nor am I fan of the Democrat Thieves who eye my wallet greedily and want to use it to fund lazy people to enslave a generation. Find me a candidate who fits neither of those descriptions and I'll invite them over for a brewday.
Things like this nonsense will further cynicize me. I can see it already.
That said, I've lived in Alabama more than anywhere at this point and while Tennessee ran a close second... Any chance of me being a bleeding heart liberal was butchered completely beyond possibility by spending a half a decade stint in California... However, I am not a huge fan of the Republican Perverts who are determined to participate and give me instructions for the privacy of my bedroom... Nor am I fan of the Democrat Thieves who eye my wallet greedily and want to use it to fund lazy people to enslave a generation. Find me a candidate who fits neither of those descriptions and I'll invite them over for a brewday.
Things like this nonsense will further cynicize me. I can see it already.
WildOnions
Active Member
I think we are the same person. Not sure wait till next year counts for Auburn anymore though
Also, there are dumb people in every single state. Only a fool would label a redneck stupid just because they're rednecks. The problem working against Alabama as I see it are the dumb people that get noticed are terribly rough and *some* of the people who are looked at as not supposed to be dumb (even tho I think that's the biggest misnomer of all of them) would give your average rock a run for their money... Alvin Holmes is a prime example related to our current topic. The man's resume looks impressive on paper but hearing the man talk makes me wish I was talking to 6 year old. They're about even honestly.
The only good that came of this session is I'm 100% sure Greg Wren will NOT receive a future vote from myself NOR will he receive any campaign contributions from me even if some crazy bastard is running against him.
aubiecat
Well-Known Member
Speaking of Alvin Holmes as illiterate as he is just think about the people who keep electing this imbecile. He has been a state representative for 35 years.
BTW, Holmes' great contribution to the legislative process this year was a bill trying to outlaw saggy pants. The senate laughed that bill out the window.
BTW, Holmes' great contribution to the legislative process this year was a bill trying to outlaw saggy pants. The senate laughed that bill out the window.
Blackfoot26
Active Member
I used to live in Alabama before my homebrewing days. The first thing I said when I got there was "what do you mean I can't get a beer on Sunday?"
Thank God for Fort Rucker's class VI. Saved my ass on game day many a time...although the selection was, shall we say....limited.
If you want to see how crazy/corrupt Alabama politics are, look at Ronnie Gilley and the Country Crossing debacle.
Thank God for Fort Rucker's class VI. Saved my ass on game day many a time...although the selection was, shall we say....limited.
If you want to see how crazy/corrupt Alabama politics are, look at Ronnie Gilley and the Country Crossing debacle.
That particular topic is not purely an Alabama thing. Also, I think you can buy it in some counties on Sundays as I've been told you can buy it in Montgomery then.
Hi Alabama friends. Just a word of solidarity for you. A couple of months ago, I was visiting our state legislature in Springfield and was astounded by the lack of seriousness and the buffoonery of individual legislators. I've done a lot of advocacy work in DC and was always pleased to say that the members of Congress and their staffs were serious and thoughtful (even those I disagreed with). Not true at the state level. The chair of a committee we were trying to visit with went around the room and kissed every woman in our group. Yikes.
wailingguitar
Well-Known Member
wailingguitar
Well-Known Member
For the record, Alabama isn't the only state with ridiculous alcohol laws... check this link and read them all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alcohol_laws_of_the_United_States_by_state
I'm sure doesn't have everything, but you can see that practically every state has something stupid... 3.2% beer laws, strange hours for sales, Massachusetts not recognizing out of valid state ID as sufficient proof of age (??!! that may be #1 for stupidity), etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alcohol_laws_of_the_United_States_by_state
I'm sure doesn't have everything, but you can see that practically every state has something stupid... 3.2% beer laws, strange hours for sales, Massachusetts not recognizing out of valid state ID as sufficient proof of age (??!! that may be #1 for stupidity), etc.
CGVT
Senior Member
All things considered, other than homebrewing, Alabama's alcohol laws are really not bad since they raised the ABV limit to 13.9 a few years ago and now that they have passed the bottle bill. There are still dry counties but towns over 1000 people in those counties can vote to go wet if they choose.
Pennsylvania takes the cake for absurdity.
wailingguitar
Well-Known Member
Got this email from Senator Holtzclaw today, I'm sure some of you did as well;
All – thank you for your emails concerning the Homebrew Legislation. As you know by now, the bill died the final day of the session. I’ll attempt to relate to you what occurred, or at least what I think occurred.
As I indicated in my previous email, I had worked the Senate throughout the final days of the session and discovered no known opposition. I was confident that I would be successful in using a final “silver bullet” to get this bill placed on the Special Order Calendar last Wednesday, on the final day for passage. That didn’t happen.
Attached is a screen-shot from the legislative system for the history of HB354 as it left the House. In short:
4/26/12 passed the House in a 44 – 33 vote
4/26/12 received its first reading and assigned to the Committee on Small Business
5/02/12 was re-referred to the Committee on Job Creation/Econ Development
5/08/12 was signed out of committee in a 3 – 1 vote and received its second reading
I requested that it be placed on the Special Order Calendar on the 10th of May but was unable to get it in place as the Democrats continued to “slow roll” the process. My final day was the last day of the 2012 session, 16 May – not the best position to be in.
Remember I said early on that I know of no opposition…the first clue of opposition that apparently didn’t come out of the shadows was the bill being re-referred to another committee. We lost a week in that action (April 26th to May 2nd). Apparently the committee chair didn’t want to handle a “beer bill”.
We cleared that hurdle by getting the bill reassigned to a committee with a chairman who is “beer bill” friendly. The only other opposition that could have existed was in the Rules Committee. It appears this is where our opposition chose to lay in the shadows. I know the problem was with the bill and not with Rep McCutcheon as he had several bills selected from the regular calendar to be placed on the Special Order Calendar. I also know it had nothing to do with me handling the bill for him (you never know… as I handled a couple of bills for Mac on the final night as well. That leaves us only one form of opposition – someone on the rules committee who was able to remain anonymous opposed selection of this bill from being on the Special Order Calendar. It may have been a Democrat or a Republican as several Special Order Calendars were produced in the final hours but even after repeated request to have HB354 on the calendar throughout the evening we came up empty to the final hour.
What can we do different? First, get the bill into position earlier in the session. Working a bill while the clock is running out is not a good thing. Second, we need to get the budgets passed earlier in the session – passing a budget in the final hour of the final day is not good management either…we passed the General Fund Budget at 15 minutes before midnight on the final night of the session; that and the immigration bill consumed a lot of time on the final day. Lastly, attempt to determine who on rules is opposing the bill – force them from the shadows – and then play nice to uncover their opposition or..if push comes to shove, block a bill they support until ours passes. I’m a rookie in the legislature but this is what I’ve learned thus far. I can and will play hardball but would rather play nice with others.
That’s about as close as you can get to a “play by play”. I know this does not help with the disappointment but I hope it helps everyone understand what happened.
Semper Fi
Bill
Bill Holtzclaw
Senator
Alabama 2nd District
www.District2.us
All – thank you for your emails concerning the Homebrew Legislation. As you know by now, the bill died the final day of the session. I’ll attempt to relate to you what occurred, or at least what I think occurred.
As I indicated in my previous email, I had worked the Senate throughout the final days of the session and discovered no known opposition. I was confident that I would be successful in using a final “silver bullet” to get this bill placed on the Special Order Calendar last Wednesday, on the final day for passage. That didn’t happen.
Attached is a screen-shot from the legislative system for the history of HB354 as it left the House. In short:
4/26/12 passed the House in a 44 – 33 vote
4/26/12 received its first reading and assigned to the Committee on Small Business
5/02/12 was re-referred to the Committee on Job Creation/Econ Development
5/08/12 was signed out of committee in a 3 – 1 vote and received its second reading
I requested that it be placed on the Special Order Calendar on the 10th of May but was unable to get it in place as the Democrats continued to “slow roll” the process. My final day was the last day of the 2012 session, 16 May – not the best position to be in.
Remember I said early on that I know of no opposition…the first clue of opposition that apparently didn’t come out of the shadows was the bill being re-referred to another committee. We lost a week in that action (April 26th to May 2nd). Apparently the committee chair didn’t want to handle a “beer bill”.
We cleared that hurdle by getting the bill reassigned to a committee with a chairman who is “beer bill” friendly. The only other opposition that could have existed was in the Rules Committee. It appears this is where our opposition chose to lay in the shadows. I know the problem was with the bill and not with Rep McCutcheon as he had several bills selected from the regular calendar to be placed on the Special Order Calendar. I also know it had nothing to do with me handling the bill for him (you never know…
as I handled a couple of bills for Mac on the final night as well. That leaves us only one form of opposition – someone on the rules committee who was able to remain anonymous opposed selection of this bill from being on the Special Order Calendar. It may have been a Democrat or a Republican as several Special Order Calendars were produced in the final hours but even after repeated request to have HB354 on the calendar throughout the evening we came up empty to the final hour.What can we do different? First, get the bill into position earlier in the session. Working a bill while the clock is running out is not a good thing. Second, we need to get the budgets passed earlier in the session – passing a budget in the final hour of the final day is not good management either…we passed the General Fund Budget at 15 minutes before midnight on the final night of the session; that and the immigration bill consumed a lot of time on the final day. Lastly, attempt to determine who on rules is opposing the bill – force them from the shadows – and then play nice to uncover their opposition or..if push comes to shove, block a bill they support until ours passes. I’m a rookie in the legislature but this is what I’ve learned thus far. I can and will play hardball but would rather play nice with others.
That’s about as close as you can get to a “play by play”. I know this does not help with the disappointment but I hope it helps everyone understand what happened.
Semper Fi
Bill
Bill Holtzclaw
Senator
Alabama 2nd District
www.District2.us
Yep , I got the same email. Glad he put together an email to explain the process and maybe what happened. Mac also sent an email saying "You will have my support as long as I serve in the legislature. I am committed to our Homebrewer's!" Hoping that we can learn from this year and come back with more support and push the homebrewing bill early.
These things generally get better with time, ie. easier to pass. Yours and the MS ABW/ABV bills are proof of this. We're certainly fighting much of the same battles. However the ignorant unresponsive nature of what must be done to restore the tiniest amount of freedom reminds of words I've heard from a fist full of liberty minded folks. 'Freedom is the natural state of man, government exist chiefly to impede that freedom.'
That said, I've lived in Alabama more than anywhere at this point and while Tennessee ran a close second... Any chance of me being a bleeding heart liberal was butchered completely beyond possibility by spending a half a decade stint in California... However, I am not a huge fan of the Republican Perverts who are determined to participate and give me instructions for the privacy of my bedroom... Nor am I fan of the Democrat Thieves who eye my wallet greedily and want to use it to fund lazy people to enslave a generation. Find me a candidate who fits neither of those descriptions and I'll invite them over for a brewday.
So... you'd like to brew with Ron Paul and Gary Johnson eh?
Justin Amash isn't bad either and is the first elected official nationally to post the roll call for every vote in the house on his social media sites along with a brief synopsis and surprisingly matter of fact analysis of each bill. Sometimes his analysis is funny, sometimes brutal, always honest. He's a Michigan rep. I prefer my politicians to be libertarian conspirators, you know people who want to take over and leave you the hell alone! :fro:
aubiecat
Well-Known Member
Glad to see the email from Holtzclaw. Nice to have a "play by play" of what was going om there, pretty interesting.
I'm just glad we have a workable bill to pre-submit this coming year. I do hate that we are going have to sit through another old time, fire and brimstone revival in the house.
I'm just glad we have a workable bill to pre-submit this coming year. I do hate that we are going have to sit through another old time, fire and brimstone revival in the house.
The rules committee is composed of senators as well though right? Perhaps people from their districts actively contacting them would help pull the bs out of our cause?
wailingguitar
Well-Known Member
I emailed Tammy Irons (my senator and on the rules committee) to ask if she knew where the problem was;
"I don't know who killed it but I know we all had the ability to request certain bills be put on the calendar for the last day and this was one of the bills I asked for.
The final decision is with the Rules Chair - Sen. Waggoner.
I will continue to support this bill. I have had so many calls in support of it."
I think we need to be after Senator Waggoner to come clean and tell us who it was... or, one could read between the lines of this email and think it might mean it was him... hmmm I don't know
"I don't know who killed it but I know we all had the ability to request certain bills be put on the calendar for the last day and this was one of the bills I asked for.
The final decision is with the Rules Chair - Sen. Waggoner.
I will continue to support this bill. I have had so many calls in support of it."
I think we need to be after Senator Waggoner to come clean and tell us who it was... or, one could read between the lines of this email and think it might mean it was him... hmmm I don't know
aubiecat
Well-Known Member
Most of the people that vote against alcohol bills do it over money or their principles. Our bill took out the ABC and the distributors so there was nothing left but the legislators to vote on principle alone.
Most of the ones opposed to alcohol will not listen to their constituents no matter what.
I hope Holtzclaw is able to out who ever the "silent opposition" was in the senate rules committee.
homebrewdad
Well-Known Member
Agreed. I will contact Waggoner and ask for a reckoning, hope we can get others to do the same.
wailingguitar
Well-Known Member
I have just emailed Waggoner, asking him for info on anyone in the committee who may have played a part directly or indirectly. Also asked how it was possible that we didn't even get up for vote when a LESS restrictive bill made it through senate 2 years ago. THAT is messed up.
CGVT
Senior Member
I took a couple of minutes this morning and checked the voting records of a few of the Senators on the Rules committee. If you google their name and go to the votesmart site and then click on voting record you can see some of their "key votes"
Other than Waggoner, the first four I checked all have voted no on all alcohol related bills. Obviously this is not a good sign. I will probably check the others when I get a chance, but I think that we as well as Senator Holtzclaw are underestimating the level of opposition
Other than Waggoner, the first four I checked all have voted no on all alcohol related bills. Obviously this is not a good sign. I will probably check the others when I get a chance, but I think that we as well as Senator Holtzclaw are underestimating the level of opposition
pentachris
Well-Known Member
Just a day or two after emailing Senator Orr about getting the bill on the calendar, I got a letter from his office saying, "thanks for contacting me, I look forward to working with the bill's sponsor on a version that provides reasonable and adequate safeguards, etc." Sounded to me like a polite way of saying, "I'm opposed to the bill." That doesn't mean that he worked to keep it off the calendar, but it's a safe bet that he wasn't working to get it on.
Orthobrewsky
Senior Member
That sounds pretty insane. In other words, "I want more unreasonable restrictions on something which we all know is perfectly safe."
When Alabama and Mississippi are left alone on something, it's a pretty safe bet who is being stupid.
"Alabama is the moron state." ---Buford Buzzard
wailingguitar
Well-Known Member
I am seriously wondering about Senator Waggoner. Senator Irons told me, "I don't know who killed it but I know we all had the ability to request certain bills be put on the calendar for the last day and this was one of the bills I asked for.
The final decision is with the Rules Chair - Sen. Waggoner. "
Maybe I am reading between the lines, but that sounds like a dig in his direction.
Further, I have emailed him MULTIPLE times asking both for help and, ultimately, for an explanation. I have received a grand total of ZERO replies from him. Has ANYONE had correspondence with the man?
Thoughts?
The final decision is with the Rules Chair - Sen. Waggoner. "
Maybe I am reading between the lines, but that sounds like a dig in his direction.
Further, I have emailed him MULTIPLE times asking both for help and, ultimately, for an explanation. I have received a grand total of ZERO replies from him. Has ANYONE had correspondence with the man?
Thoughts?
Orthobrewsky
Senior Member
I wonder how much is really personal opposition and how much is not wanting for anyone to be able to say that they "voted for alcohol." It think that plays a big role. There was a report on here of a legislator adamantly stating that he would never vote for any bill favoring alcohol in any way, but he'd support a referendum vote on this issue. That did not sound at all like principle, but rather like a brazen admission that he didn't want to be held responsible for a "pro-alcohol" vote, regardless of whether he thought it was right or best for the people of the state. He even said something about not being a drinker, but supporting our personal freedom regarding alcohol. So, that was his "principle," but he voted against that principle.
Orthobrewsky
Senior Member
According to Free the Hops, he supports homebrew legalization and has previously voted for it. I wonder if he thought that there could be some who would insist on debating it. At that point, they wanted only quick bills which wouldn't take up any time. We had the votes for it, but was there the power to immediately force a vote? I've read that there is a great deal of filibustering in the Alabama senate. We also have the largest constitution in the world.
It is odd, however, that there are no reports of him replying to any of us about this.
I think you are reading "exactly" what Sen. Iron's was wanting to say.
I also did not receive a response from Sen. Waggoner or from Sen. Marsh .
These two were the one's who ultimately decided what was put on the calendar , so it's pretty easy to decide who put the stops to the bill.
I think it might be a little bit of reading between the lines.
He does have the final say, and can steamroll all the other members of the committee on the final day.
That being said, based on things that Holtzclaw said, along with comments from Mac, it would be unusual for him to do that.
It is more likely that someone on the committee who is a tee-totaler asked him not to place it on the SOC. He complied with their request based on the fact that if he had ignored them and put it on there anyway, they would have spoken against it when it came to the floor. That would have led to it being tabled.
The point of the SOC deals on the final day are to get everyone to play nice and not "waste time" and you can only do that if everyone is okay with the stuff going to the floor.
He does have the final say, and can steamroll all the other members of the committee on the final day.
That being said, based on things that Holtzclaw said, along with comments from Mac, it would be unusual for him to do that.
It is more likely that someone on the committee who is a tee-totaler asked him not to place it on the SOC. He complied with their request based on the fact that if he had ignored them and put it on there anyway, they would have spoken against it when it came to the floor. That would have led to it being tabled.
The point of the SOC deals on the final day are to get everyone to play nice and not "waste time" and you can only do that if everyone is okay with the stuff going to the floor.
aubiecat
Well-Known Member
Considering the rancor in the senate that day it just wasn't a good day for a homebrew bill. The senate minority already had their panties in a wad over the immigration bill. Reminded me of a bunch kindergarteners who didn't get their morning snack.
Over all the senate didn't do a good job of taking care of business this session.
I was really disappointed because I expected a more refined, mature group of people in the senate but they are just as bad as the house but on a smaller scale.
Over all the senate didn't do a good job of taking care of business this session.
I was really disappointed because I expected a more refined, mature group of people in the senate but they are just as bad as the house but on a smaller scale.
homebrewdad
Well-Known Member
The minority ought to be ashamed of themselves, period. I am still very riled about the initial no vote on the bottle bill because the majority party got a bigger donation than they did. To me, that is neglecting your sworn duty.
wailingguitar
Well-Known Member
Damn straight!
Orthobrewsky
Senior Member
Who knows what kind of childish fighting was going on? Smitherman, who made himself so annoying that day, was the guy who introduced our homebrew bill back in 2008 and is assumed to still be a strong supporter. Perhaps it was partly out of spite toward him that they killed our bill this year. If he is still in our corner, it would have been nice if he'd made a deal with them early in the day to shut up about the hazards of making illegal immigration illegal if they'd pass the homebrew bill. That's the kind of annoying maniac we could use, but alas...
CreamyGoodness
Well-Known Member
Wait, I thought this bill was to force the minority to produce and consume beer and wine in their homes! Thats why I've been against it so long! /sarcasm
gimmejava
Well-Known Member
So, does this mean we can at least get some Stone AB in the stores now?
