"Nutella" Stout - Thoughts?

I got totally hooked on Nutella while living in Germany (actually, I was living in the former East Germany so I had the eastern version, Nudossi, almost as much as Nutella), where they put that delicious ambrosia on just about everything. Nothing beats it on a big, warm soft pretzel for breakfast!

So I'm thinking of capturing that same magic in a sweet stout. Nutella's basically milk, chocolate, and hazelnut, so here's a recipe I came up with to match that. I hope to brew it sometime this week.

Extract + Specialty Grains, 5 gallon batch

6.00# light DME
0.75# black patent
0.50# chocolate malt
0.50# roasted barley

2.50 oz. East Kent Goldings (60)
1.00# lactose powder (60)
1 Whirlfloc tablet (15)
8.00 oz. Hershey's cocoa powder (5)

Wyeast 1084 - Irish Ale

4.00 oz. crushed cacao nibs in secondary
1.00 oz. hazelnut extract at bottling

Estimated OG - 1.061
Estimated FG - 1.016
Estimated IBU - 36
Estimated SRM - 46
Estimated ABV - 5.9%

I have a couple of questions and I'd love to hear some thoughts:

1. The chocolates - it seems that a mixture of powder and nibs will give a good mix of flavor, aroma and bitterness. I want the chocolate to be obvious but not totally overwhelming, so I wonder if these are good ballpark amounts of powder and nibs.

2. The hazelnut - anyone ever use hazelnut extract before? I want the hazelnut to be obvious as well, but not to overpower the chocolate. I want chocolate with a background of hazelnut, so I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on a good ratio.

Many thanks, y'all!

I am not 100% sure, but I think there is a problem with introducing fat from cocoa powder to your beer. I think you need fat free cocoa powder. I also think you are heavy on the cocoa. I would use 4oz total for what you describe.

Also, that is ALOT of roasted grains, so make sure you also want a burnt, coffee flavor in there as well. Although, I notice you are probably steeping, so maybe the taste doesn't come through as much, I can't remember.

The rest looks fine to me.

Well I can definitely tell you that adding the cocoa powder at 5 minutes will add a good bit of chocolate flavor. Also, have never using hazelnut extract, but as someone who has used extracts, always use less in the beginning and taste. I would think 1/2 oz would probably be good. The nibs, I have no idea. do a bit of searching and you'll probably find something about it.

GL,
J

dkershner said:

I am not 100% sure, but I think there is a problem with introducing fat from cocoa powder to your beer. I think you need fat free cocoa powder. I also think you are heavy on the cocoa. I would use 4oz total for what you describe.

Also, that is ALOT of roasted grains, so make sure you also want a burnt, coffee flavor in there as well. Although, I notice you are probably steeping, so maybe the taste doesn't come through as much, I can't remember.

The rest looks fine to me.

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Agreed.

That much black patent will be ultra roasty!

Here is something that you might be ultra interested in. http://beerdujour.com/Recipes/Jamil/

That's Jamil's recipes. He's got a recipe on that page for Chocolate Hazelnut Porter and that may be something that you would be interested in. If not, I'd maybe start with a recipe like this one https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f68/o-flannagain-standard-41072/ which is really good recipe and use Jamil's tricks from there.

J

I'd focus on making the base for this beer a sweet stout. I've seen a lot of people using cocoa nibs and not negatively effecting head retention. The fats only come out when you grind them into a paste like they do in chocolate making.

I've never used hazelnut extract before, but I absolutely LOVE Nutella (my fiancee's family is Italian), so I don't see how it could go wrong!

Thanks, y'all!

I'm definitely shooting for that roasty flavor from the black patent and roasted barley, so no worries there. And IIRC the roasted barley will give the head a nice brown tint, which just adds to the Nutella theme. Plus I figure that the roastiness and burnt tinges should be balanced out by the lactose, chocolate and hazelnut. I hope it's not too over the top, anyway.

I hadn't considered the fat issue from the cocoa powder. I just took a look at a tin I have in the cupboard and it's 0.5g fat per serving, with about 45 servings in the tin. That adds up to 22.5 grams, or about 3/4 oz. 3/4 oz. of fat in 5 gallons of beer shouldn't be a problem in terms of head retention, should it? Jamil's recipe (thanks for the link!) just says 8 oz. cocoa powder at the end of the boil, so hopefully it will be ok.

There's a cocoa I use in my double chocolate oatmeal snout recipe. It's called "Wondercocoa" by a company called Wonderslim. It's 99.9% fat free and works great in my beer. If you can find it, definitely use it. I get it at a food co-op, but I've seen it in grocery stores before, just not as regularly.

edit: This is the stuff

I tried 2 oz of dark chocolate in a stout and you can barely taste it, the fat was a non issue as oils float, and you siphon from the bottom, just leave a couple of oz behind when racking.

I have seen another recipe that used about 12oz of cocao so I think you are pretty safe.

What about using actual ground hazelnuts? and lots, like a pound or so??? any ideas? comments? I would be curious to try that.

I WOULD DEFINITELY like to get a report when complete, I as well, love Nutella, but don't be misled, Nutella is mostly hazelnut with a hint of cocoa, not chocolate with a hint of Hazelnuts, so don't be afraid to use lots of nuts or extract in relation to your cocoa.

Thanks, ChshreCat! Never heard of that brand. I'm kind of over a barrel, though... I grew up near Hershey and feel a fierce loyalty!

Bill, that's a good point about the hazelnut-chocolate mix in Nutella. Nudossi is a bit more chocolatey, but it's still pretty strong in the hazelnut. But really, is there anything not awesome about chocolate and hazelnut, no matter the ratio?

I didn't think of adding real hazelnuts - that's an awesome idea! I already have the extract, though, so I'll give that a go with this batch and then try nuts (maybe with a quick run through a food processor then into the secondary along with the cacao nibs?) next time around. I think I'll just tweak it at bottling until it's screaming "NUTELLA" at me.

Will definitely keep you posted on this one - should be an interesting brew!

This may sound kinda crazy, but I don't think nutella has any preservatives http://www.nutellausa.com/ingredients.htm, so why not just add a jar at the last 5 minutes of the boil?


Lol, I know that's really thinking outside of the box!

I used 3 drops of hazelnut extract in a 1gal test batch and it was bordering on too much. Two drops of vanilla was about right... be careful

I've used Frangelico for hazelnut flavor with good results. The flavor is a bit less concentrated than extract, but that just gives you a bit more wiggle room on the additions. Good luck.

keep an eye on this thread and see if there are any good suggestions:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/mashin-yer-nuts-183784/

Brewing this one up today - we'll see how it goes! I'll keep everyone posted along the way.

Please do report on it. I'm very curious as I love Nutella as well.

So this has been in the carboy for about 24 hours now. The closet where I keep it tends to stay around 70-72 and I want to keep it in the lower end of the Wyeast Irish Ale temp range (62-65 or so), so I have it in a giant plastic tub with some water and ice bottles.

I checked it a few hours ago and it has about 2" of thick, rocky kräusen like cappuccino foam dusted with cinnamon (probably some of the cocoa powder) and it's bubbling about once every two seconds through the blowoff tube. So far so good.

Then I checked the temp: 58 degrees. Yikes! I took the ice bottles out and threw a towel over the bucket to try to warm it up a bit. But I'm still pleased that there's a lot of good swirling activity in the carboy and bubbling in the blowoff jar, so I just hope the yeasties don't stall.

Mahanoy said:

I checked it a few hours ago and it has about 2" of thick, rocky kräusen like cappuccino foam dusted with cinnamon (probably some of the cocoa powder).

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I get the same thing with my double chocolate oatmeal snout I brew. The krausen really looks like a bit latte with chocolate or cinnamon sprinkled on it by the barista.

I used 2 oz of hazelnut extract in a 5 gal hazelnut brown ale and had to rename it double hazelnut brown. I think that 1 oz per 5 gallons should be enough that you can taste it without over powering the taste of the beer.

mmmm nutella is so awesome! i put on everything from the toaster to crackers, cookies, etc. never in a beer though, but perhaps in brownies?

brewingkitty said:

mmmm nutella is so awesome! i put on everything from the toaster to crackers, cookies, etc. never in a beer though, but perhaps in brownies?

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You put Nutella on your toaster? lol

It's a beautiful, beautiful thing.

When I was in grad school I studied in Dresden, in the old East Germany, where their version was called Nudossi. It's still made, but you can get Nutella now too. I was there in 2000 when there was still some pretty strong nostalgia for the old days (they called it "Ostalgie") so they liked hanging on to the old products. Nudossi has twice the hazelnuts as Nutella. It was a bit more pasty and less creamy than Nutella, but damn, it was good!

billc68 said:

You put Nutella on your toaster? lol

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not ON the toaster, that would be silly, it would melt inside! i put it on everything OUT of the toaster. you put peanut butter on toast, yes? how about salted avocado? cinnamon and sugar? real butter? you gotta try it before you knock it.

I was introduced to it by some very sexually liberated young women about 20 years ago. They taught me that Nutella is best served on another person.

Oh yes indeed. Yes, yes, yes indeed.

Though I'm unfamiliar with the wonder condiment that is Nutella I'm very interested in how this brew turns out. Perhaps this would be a good one to brew in Oct/Nov for Jan/Feb consumption!

Schlante,
Phillip

MVKTR2 said:

Though I'm unfamiliar with the wonder condiment that is Nutella I'm very interested in how this brew turns out. Perhaps this would be a good one to brew in Oct/Nov for Jan/Feb consumption!

Schlante,
Phillip

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Ever have a Ferrero Rocher?



Nutella is the chocolaty filling. Nutella is made by Ferrero.

I am damn curious about this stout as well.

billc68 said:

Ever have a Ferrero Rocher?

Nutella is the chocolaty filling. Nutella is made by Ferrero.

I am damn curious about this stout as well.

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I'm familiar with the concept of chcolate & hazelnut, just haven't tried the Nutella. Yea I've had the Ferrero Rocher, my wife's a bigger fan than me. So the filling is literally Nutella? Neat. Think I'll pick up a can next time I run across it, what should I put it on?

Schlante,
Phillip

Anything you want, really - toast, croissants, graham crackers, rolls, pretzels (soft or hard), anything!

It's really good on fruit. Especially banana. My daughter likes it in peanut butter sammiches.

Mahanoy said:

Anything you want, really - toast, croissants, graham crackers, rolls, pretzels (soft or hard), anything!

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Or Stout apparently.

I had some as I was typing my previous comment, neighbor brought over some hot from the oven rolls, while returning a wine bottle of Apfelwein!

Nutella and ice cream. Warm it enough to flow and drizzle over any ice cream. Heaven.

Guess what I'm haveing after baseball tonight

Yes, or stout!

Speaking of, I just checked on it in the closet and the airlock went from about 2 bubbles a second to 1 about every 2 minutes overnight. I did a gravity reading and it's already down to 1.015 from 1.062 - in two days. That Wyeast Irish Ale yeast works fast!

No sense wasting a gravity sample, right? It's damn tasty already, and it's only 3 days old. And I haven't aged it on the cacao nibs or added the hazelnut yet. This one's going to be a winner!

now i want to try it..

Just bottled this yesterday. I tasted a sample before I added the priming sugar and it's awesome. The chocolate is definitely there but not overpowering, it has a nice subtle fruitiness from the Irish Ale yeast, and the harsh bitterness from the black patent and roasted barley that was there at the beginning has mellowed. This one's definitely going to be a winner!

And the Hazelnut? can you taste it? is it a good balance?

You can definitely taste the hazelnut, but it's really beautifully balanced. There's nothing overpowering about any of the elements at all. In fact, I might want to up both the chocolate and the hazelnut next time to get a more aggressive Nutella flavor, but right now it's pretty damned delicious as is. I'll just have to see what happens in the bottle. But I'd rather undershoot than overshoot, so I'm really pleased.

Mahanoy, did you end up cooking this recipe exactly as you have it in the OP, or did you make some changes before you got started?

copper, I ended up making two small changes. I added 3# of DME at the beginning of the boil and added the remaining 3# at the end of the boil, mostly because this one kept threatening to boil over. I also racked onto 6 oz of cacao nibs instead of the 4 listed in the recipe. Other than that I did everything exactly as listed in the OP.

When I do it again I might make a cocoa slurry by mixing the cocoa powder with some water, mostly so it will incorporate better. I ended up with a lot of cocoa powder sitting on top of the kräusen and then settling out with the trub.

Great. Thanks for the update. I'm watching this thread to see how it comes out. Might want to add it to my lineup for a try.

I'll be sure to keep you posted!