Collective Wisdom on GF IPAs

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igliashon

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Well, with the rash of recent threads here on GF IPAs, and with me itchin' to brew one myself, I thought I'd ask everyone who's brewed one to completion what they've learned from the experience and what they'd do differently in the next batch. I don't want to make the same mistake anyone else has made ;). A common thread I've noticed is people lamenting the lack of a malty back-bone...I reckon extra dextrin and copious use of adjuncts might correct that. Anything else ya'll can think of? Particular hop varieties that do or don't work well in a GF brew? Adjustments to hop quantities (more or less?) when brewing gluten-free? Any recipes that worked well or failed catastrophically?
 
Brew this, then enjoy

http://gfhomebrewing.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/brew-dog-inspired-ipa.html

With only 9 days in the bottle this is already looking like the peak of my ipa experience. Only noted issue is not enough body, I'll probably up it to 8 oz of maltodextrine next time.

http://gfhomebrewing.blogspot.com.au/2011/05/centennial-hopped-beer-brewing.html

The recipe from the link is:

Angry Scotsman IPA
---------------------------------
1Kg Sorghum Syrup @ 60 minutes
168g Maltodextrine @ 60 minutes
28g Columbus @ 60 minutes
28g Cascade @ 15 minutes
1/2 Whirlfloc tablet @ 15 minutes
28g Amarillo @ 10 minutes
1tsp Yeast Nutrient @ 10 minutes
20g Cascade @ 5 minutes
400g Iron Bark Honey @ Flameout
1.8Kg Sorghum Syrup @ Flameout
*** Cold Crash ***
US-05 Fermentis American Ale Yeast

Grrr...metric! I'll have to convert that before I can use it, but I like math so no problem. I take it this is a 5-gallon batch (or what, a 19-liter batch)? So I'll have to reduce appropriately for a 3-gallon batch, as that's what I brew. Looks good though, I'll give it a shot! Though I note that you don't include any adjunct grains, just extract and honey. I'll probably toss in 2 lbs of toasted malted quinoa, or may 2 lbs GF oats instead...oats might give better body and sweetness to back up the hoppy bitterness.

Two questions, though: why add most of the sorghum at flameout, and what's iron bark honey (and what's the flavor like, so I can find a good sub)?

Thanks, mate!:mug:
 
Picked up my ingredients today for a 3-gallon batch of the above recipe, with the following substitutions: centennial hops instead of amarillo, because my LHBS doesn't have amarillo; irish moss instead of whirlfloc; buckwheat honey instead of iron bark honey; nottingham instead of US-05 because I want to boost the OG a bit and the guy at my LHBS said the notty would be more tolerant. Toying with the idea of adding a touch of rosemary and juniper in the last 10, but might opt to play it safer. I always want to throw the kitchen sink at every batch! :ban: Will probably brew it up Monday.

Still wondering about why the recipe calls for adding more than half the sorghum at flameout, though.
 
I haven't had great luck with sorghum syrup (maybe I'm just particularly sensitive to it's flavors), although I like your choice of hops. Columbus is a great assertive hop and should be great with cascade in this recipe. Since it's an IPA, I would definitely suggest that you add some dry hops, but you don't need to have those on hand right now, since you won't add them until after fermentation dies down. Any of the hops you have in your recipe would make a good dry hop, and I'm also a big fan of centennial, which would blend well with the flavors you have going.

Also, the reason I have found - partly from experience and partly from reading here - that adding LME as a late addition will prevent wort darkening from Maillard reactions during the boil. I also think that it cuts down on some of the harsher LME flavors, although to know that one for sure, I think a side-by-side experiment would be in order.
 
I haven't had great luck with sorghum syrup (maybe I'm just particularly sensitive to it's flavors), although I like your choice of hops.

Well, I forgot to mention--I'm gonna do 50/50 sorghum/rice solids, and add 2 lbs toasted GF oats. I have no idea how it'll work, I've tried this grain bill in one brew so far but it's still in secondary and I haven't tasted it yet. Seems like a reasonable combo to me, though. And it's spaced's hop recommendations I'm going on...most of the beers I've brewed have been gruits of some shape or another, so my hop knowledge is pretty weak (for now). Definitely gonna dry-hop, though--do ya think the centennial will be good for that? I'll have plenty of hop left-overs, since my LHBS sells hops in 2-oz increments and I'll be using no more than 1 oz of any of them in the boil for my 3-gallon batch.

Also, the reason I have found - partly from experience and partly from reading here - that adding LME as a late addition will prevent wort darkening from Maillard reactions during the boil. I also think that it cuts down on some of the harsher LME flavors, although to know that one for sure, I think a side-by-side experiment would be in order.

Ah, one of those hotly-contested aspects of homebrewing, eh? Like whether or not to secondary, or full-boil vs. partial, pellets vs. whole hops? Well, what the heck, I'll give it a go--add the rice solids at the start, and honey and sorghum at flameout. Thanks for the tip!
 
The recipe from the link is:

Angry Scotsman IPA
---------------------------------
1Kg Sorghum Syrup @ 60 minutes
6oz Maltodextrine @ 60 minutes
1 oz Columbus @ 60 minutes
1oz Cascade @ 15 minutes
1/2 Whirlfloc tablet @ 15 minutes
1oz Amarillo @ 10 minutes
1tsp Yeast Nutrient @ 10 minutes
0.7oz Cascade @ 5 minutes
1 pound Iron Bark Honey @ Flameout
1.8Kg Sorghum Syrup @ Flameout
*** Cold Crash ***
US-05 Fermentis American Ale Yeast

Grrr...metric! I'll have to convert that before I can use it, but I like math so no problem. I take it this is a 5-gallon batch (or what, a 19-liter batch)? So I'll have to reduce appropriately for a 3-gallon batch, as that's what I brew. Looks good though, I'll give it a shot! Though I note that you don't include any adjunct grains, just extract and honey. I'll probably toss in 2 lbs of toasted malted quinoa, or may 2 lbs GF oats instead...oats might give better body and sweetness to back up the hoppy bitterness.

Two questions, though: why add most of the sorghum at flameout, and what's iron bark honey (and what's the flavor like, so I can find a good sub)?

Thanks, mate!:mug:

I converted the easy ones. I think the sorghum is about 6 pounds.

Half at the start and half at the end is supposed to cut down on the sorghum twang. Does it? No idea to be honest, but it can't hurt.

With the iron bark honey, that's just something readily available in Australia. It's not as sweet tasting as clover honey but I would try buckwheat honey if you can get it. Or even some dark candy syrup.

I top my fermenter up to about 21L after chilling my concentrated boil.

I would definitely try it with roasted grains/oats.

N.B. This Recipe is dry hopped with 2 oz of Amarillo. Highly recommend it. This recipe is not for non-hop heads......they're just not cool enough to get it :)


I haven't had great luck with sorghum syrup (maybe I'm just particularly sensitive to it's flavors), although I like your choice of hops. Columbus is a great assertive hop and should be great with cascade in this recipe. Since it's an IPA, I would definitely suggest that you add some dry hops, but you don't need to have those on hand right now, since you won't add them until after fermentation dies down. Any of the hops you have in your recipe would make a good dry hop, and I'm also a big fan of centennial, which would blend well with the flavors you have going.

I really fell in love with Columbus hops with this recipe. I really like the way they taste as a bittering hop. I'm planning a pale ale with half an ounce for bittering.

And the 2oz Amarillo dry hop is a must for that recipe.
 
I converted the easy ones. I think the sorghum is about 6 pounds.

Half at the start and half at the end is supposed to cut down on the sorghum twang. Does it? No idea to be honest, but it can't hurt.

I'm sure with enough searching you could find someone on this site who has already done the early vs. late addition experiment, but I think those sort of things are part of the fun of brewing!

Definitely gonna dry-hop, though--do ya think the centennial will be good for that? I'll have plenty of hop left-overs, since my LHBS sells hops in 2-oz increments and I'll be using no more than 1 oz of any of them in the boil for my 3-gallon batch.

Dry hop really adds a great aroma. So if you smell a couple of your hop varieties and really like it, try dry-hopping them. I haven't had a chance to brew with Amarillo yet, but the consensus sure seems to be that it has an awesome aroma.
 
Brewed this up tonight, waiting for it to chill so I can pitch the yeast. The final (modified) recipe I used:

"Outer-Spaced Oatmeal IPA"

3 gallon batch:

Steep at 150°F for 1 hour (probably unnecessary but what the hey, let's pretend there's some enzymes happening):
1 lb Lightly toasted GF quick-cook oats
1 lb "experimental fake crystal malt" (GF oats soaked in sugar-water, then kiln-dried in the oven and slightly toasted)

Then:
Bring to boil, add 3 lbs rice syrup solids and 1/2 lb raw sugar
0.75 oz columbus hops for 60 min
0.75 oz cascade hops for 15 min
0.75 oz centennial hops for 10 min
0.5 oz cascade hops for 5 min

At flameout, add 3 lbs sorghum syrup and 1 lb buckwheat honey

Chill to 78°F, pitch White Labs "Super-High Gravity Ale" yeast

Gonna dry-hop with the centennial--love the grapefruit smell of these!

How's it look? Did I f*** it up, spaced? Beer calculus puts the O.G. around 1.107, and the IBU's at 64--I'm aiming for closer to an imperial IPA than your recipe, but we'll see how it turns out.
 
Measured O.G. was just a bit above 1.100...but I also found a bunch of undissolved syrup stuck to the bottom of the pot. Lesson learned: the "inverted plate at the bottom of the pot to keep the nylon hop and grain bag from touching the bottom" trick only works for all-grain recipes--found some seriously burnt crud under that plate! :eek: I worry that most of the gravity came from the oat starch, since before even adding the sugars, the wort had a rather thick consistency, and there's all that undissolved/burnt stuff...and the wort looks as milky as a cup of chai. Maybe 2 lbs of oats was too much for a 3-gallon batch? Oh well, it'll be interesting to see what happens.
 
How's it look? Did I f*** it up, spaced? Beer calculus puts the O.G. around 1.107, and the IBU's at 64--I'm aiming for closer to an imperial IPA than your recipe, but we'll see how it turns out.

I can't comment on mashing as I've only ever done extract. But that hop combo is great. They will combine very well.
 
So, my plan was to rack this to secondary today and start the dry-hop, but I decided to take a hydrometer reading and preliminary taste-test. Imagine my surprise when the hydrometer reads 0.994--after the OG reading was just a bit over 1.1! (And yes, I did a full-wort boil with this one, so there's no mixing problem). Guess that's what I get for using the Super High Gravity Ale yeast!

So I took a taste. Hop aroma is very good, but the beer is thin and hot with not a lot backing up the hop flavor. There's a bit of saltiness and...something phenolic, perhaps? I think I really blew this one, cooled too slow, pitched too hot, and too weak (no starter). Shoulda stuck verbatim to the recipe, instead of being a doofus and thinking I could modify it well. Chalk this one up to a learning experience. Gonna try this one again and stick straight to the recipe.
 
So, my plan was to rack this to secondary today and start the dry-hop, but I decided to take a hydrometer reading and preliminary taste-test. Imagine my surprise when the hydrometer reads 0.994--after the OG reading was just a bit over 1.1! (And yes, I did a full-wort boil with this one, so there's no mixing problem). Guess that's what I get for using the Super High Gravity Ale yeast!

So I took a taste. Hop aroma is very good, but the beer is thin and hot with not a lot backing up the hop flavor. There's a bit of saltiness and...something phenolic, perhaps? I think I really blew this one, cooled too slow, pitched too hot, and too weak (no starter). Shoulda stuck verbatim to the recipe, instead of being a doofus and thinking I could modify it well. Chalk this one up to a learning experience. Gonna try this one again and stick straight to the recipe.

.994? Temp adjusted? Have you double checked your hydrometer in plain water? Sure it couldn't have been getting stuck on side of the test jar?
 
.994? Temp adjusted? Have you double checked your hydrometer in plain water? Sure it couldn't have been getting stuck on side of the test jar?

I know, I KNOW. It seems crazy. But yes, yes, yes. Checked straight out of the carboy, which was near dead-on 68°F according to the stick-on "fermometer". I wobbled the hydrometer around several times because I couldn't believe it. No, it wasn't stuck. I let it sit for like 10 minutes, thinking it would change. It didn't. Yes, I checked my hydrometer after the fact in room-temperature plain water and it's reading a perfect 1.000. I'm looking at it as I type this, and it's hanging out right where it should be. Yes, the hydrometer and sample jar were dry when I added the beer.

I have NO IDEA WTF happened in that carboy. There was a good inch and a half of sediment, maybe even two inches, which I figured was mostly oat proteins (the wort was SUUUUPER milky and took forever to clear up) but it seems like the yeast really went hog-wild. FWIW, the sample came right off the top of the beer, and I have my doubts that the gravity reading would have come out the same after racking and stirring up a bit of sediment. However, the beer tasted like burning when I tried it, so I reckon there was some fusel production from the high pitching temperature.

I really f***ed this one up, guys. Woof. Thankfully I've got enough ingredients to re-brew it tomorrow. Gonna keep it simple this time. Normal gravity, straight sorghum extract and honey. And gonna brew it proper, cool it quickly, and pitch a normal dry yeast, like US-05 or something.
 
A few things I learned doing GF (that's gluten free...get your mind out of the gutter :) )

Don't go crazy with the adjucts trying to compensate for flavor . Using a bunch of different adjucts or a whole lot of one can create some weird flavors.

Brown sugar or molasses do not add a malty flavor (it sure seemed like a good idea at the time)

Cascade and amarillo hops have been my favorites to use
 
I know, I KNOW. It seems crazy. But yes, yes, yes. Checked straight out of the carboy, which was near dead-on 68°F according to the stick-on "fermometer". I wobbled the hydrometer around several times because I couldn't believe it. No, it wasn't stuck. I let it sit for like 10 minutes, thinking it would change. It didn't. Yes, I checked my hydrometer after the fact in room-temperature plain water and it's reading a perfect 1.000. I'm looking at it as I type this, and it's hanging out right where it should be. Yes, the hydrometer and sample jar were dry when I added the beer.

I have NO IDEA WTF happened in that carboy. There was a good inch and a half of sediment, maybe even two inches, which I figured was mostly oat proteins (the wort was SUUUUPER milky and took forever to clear up) but it seems like the yeast really went hog-wild. FWIW, the sample came right off the top of the beer, and I have my doubts that the gravity reading would have come out the same after racking and stirring up a bit of sediment. However, the beer tasted like burning when I tried it, so I reckon there was some fusel production from the high pitching temperature.

I really f***ed this one up, guys. Woof. Thankfully I've got enough ingredients to re-brew it tomorrow. Gonna keep it simple this time. Normal gravity, straight sorghum extract and honey. And gonna brew it proper, cool it quickly, and pitch a normal dry yeast, like US-05 or something.

I don't know how it's gotten below 1, but there you go. I'd still throw it in bottles and put it right up the back of the cupboard. Pull out a bottle in say six months, and then a year. Give it time to get better.

A few things I learned doing GF (that's gluten free...get your mind out of the gutter :) )

Don't go crazy with the adjucts trying to compensate for flavor . Using a bunch of different adjucts or a whole lot of one can create some weird flavors.

Brown sugar or molasses do not add a malty flavor (it sure seemed like a good idea at the time)

Cascade and amarillo hops have been my favorites to use

Yeah the "fruity" type hops mix really well with the sorghum.
 
I don't know how it's gotten below 1, but there you go. I'd still throw it in bottles and put it right up the back of the cupboard. Pull out a bottle in say six months, and then a year. Give it time to get better.

Normally that's exactly what I would have done, but the headache I got off the hydrometer sample (I drank about 2 oz of the stuff, that's all) suggested mega fusels, which don't really go away with time. From what I've read, phenolic tastes also don't tend to improve with aging, either.

And also I'm not terribly optimistic about the douglas fir gruit I just bottled, it had an unpleasant salty taste and some weird "vegetable soup" flavor happening, so that one is already getting the "back of the cupboard" treatment. As did the heather braggot that was my second GF brew, but it may be doomed to an eternity of under-carbonation because I just "eyeballed" the priming sugar, as I didn't have a scale then. So that's two batches already getting the "just wait a few months and keep your fingers crossed" treatment, plus the first gruit (which is going to be good, but needs aging for proper style, as it's practically a barley-less barleywine at around 9%). I haven't had one of my own beers since I drank the last of my first batch in January, because everything I've brewed has "gone up the back of the cupboard"!

That, and I'm about a week or two short of having enough bottles for another bottling, and would rather bottle my porter (which is done and tasted delightful in the hydrometer sample, perhaps my first "good" gluten-free beer)...meaning the faIl-PA would be tying up a carboy for probably another month. So I cut my losses and re-brewed :eek:, because by the time I'd have been ready to bottle, I'll have a new and properly-brewed IPA in its place.

It was a great learning experience, though! Well worth the cost of a dumped batch, as I'm a much better brewer for it today. Most important lesson: get some tried-and-true beers in your cupboard before going off the deep end with experimentation! Then you don't feel bad about having to give one the "back of the cupboard" treatment. :drunk:
 
A few things I learned doing GF (that's gluten free...get your mind out of the gutter :) )

Don't go crazy with the adjucts trying to compensate for flavor . Using a bunch of different adjucts or a whole lot of one can create some weird flavors.

Brown sugar or molasses do not add a malty flavor (it sure seemed like a good idea at the time)

Cascade and amarillo hops have been my favorites to use

All good advice. Especially the "don't go crazy with adjuncts" part.

Brown sugar and molasses both have their place in certain styles, but indeed do not seem to add "maltiness". I put some brown sugar in my "swamp thang gruit", and it came out tasting ever so slightly sherry-like, which blended really nicely with the spicy herbal flavors, it's gonna be a great "holiday" beer. A surprise success, given I brewed it when I still didn't have a friggin' clue about proper gravity or how to balance a beer. Molasses so far hasn't seemed to hurt anything, I've added about a cup of it to three different 3-gallon batches and have yet to be able to pick it out in the flavor profile. Definitely nothing "malty" coming from it, but I reckon it belongs in the base of a porter, along with some D-180 candi syrup.

Amarillo are nice, haven't brewed with them, but St. Peter's Sorgham ale, one of the best commercial GF beers I've had, uses amarillo exclusively. I still have a LOT to learn about hops, thinking about doing a run of single-hop batches...but that's gonna have to wait awhile, as I haven't begun to drink any of the six batches I've already brewed and I'm running out of places to stash bottles!
 
I just took a hydrometer sample of my 2nd attempt at spaced's recipe, I'm at target FG (1.012), and holy crap is this good beer. I brewed the original recipe, modified ever so slightly by adding a pound of amber candi syrup (D-45) and the zest of half a grapefruit (at flameout). Gonna add the dry hops today and bottle next weekend, but I really gotta say, I've never had something taste this good straight out of primary. I think my general techniques are improving (full-wort boils, quick immersion chilling, no hop bags, healthy yeast), but honestly this is the first beer of my own I've ever tasted that was *good* right out of the primary. It's gonna be smashing, for sure! So glad I dumped the first batch and re-brewed.
 
I just took a hydrometer sample of my 2nd attempt at spaced's recipe, I'm at target FG (1.012), and holy crap is this good beer. I brewed the original recipe, modified ever so slightly by adding a pound of amber candi syrup (D-45) and the zest of half a grapefruit (at flameout). Gonna add the dry hops today and bottle next weekend, but I really gotta say, I've never had something taste this good straight out of primary. I think my general techniques are improving (full-wort boils, quick immersion chilling, no hop bags, healthy yeast), but honestly this is the first beer of my own I've ever tasted that was *good* right out of the primary. It's gonna be smashing, for sure! So glad I dumped the first batch and re-brewed.

That's excellent that it's going so well. I'm looking at doing a nice light pale ale with orange peel on the weekend as my next brew.

I'll rebrew my original ipa recipe soon with Ahatnum hops I've now got in the freezer. Interested how they go vs cascade. Also I've brewed this recipe with S-33. It must have gotten warm during the bottle carbonation. I've got huge bannana coming off it and it's defintely a Belgian IPA.
 
Cracked the first bottle of this tonight. Only 8 days, and it's perfectly carbed with a nice tawny head and great retention, lacing even! I don't want to toot my own horn too much, but this beer is absolutely killer. Easily better than the best off-the-shelf GF beers, heck, it's right on par with Deschutes' gluten-free NWPA (that I was fortunate enough to sample at their brewpub on my way to Seattle last week).

However, I dare say it could be hoppier. If I brewed it again, I'd want to really crank up the IBUs, maybe include a 30-minute and 25-minute addition. The grapefruit came through smashingly, and even my non-gf-gf (non-gluten-free girlfriend) was amazed at the flavor.

I can't believe it came from my kitchen! I really gotta thank you guys, spaced especially, for getting me on the right track. If I can consistently hit this level of quality, I might consider going pro...cuz this batch beats the pants off New Planet, Green's, even St. Peter's (to say nothing of Red Bridge!). :tank:
 
What's the recipe Igliashon? Congrats--that is a great feeling. I just cracked the first bottle of my PA IPA the other night...even half-carbed it was better than the New Planet in my fridge. It is a good feeling!
 
@igliashon I'm very glad it's working out for you. I definitely think IPA's lend themselves well to gluten free beer.

I'm very grateful for the early adopter's who've shared their info on here. I've gleaned a wealth of information from others on this site.
 
@igliashon I'm very glad it's working out for you. I definitely think IPA's lend themselves well to gluten free beer.

I'm very grateful for the early adopter's who've shared their info on here. I've gleaned a wealth of information from others on this site.

This is something I agree with. My best beers so far have been Belgian or British styles. I'm not sure any I've made quite qualify for an IPA status, though my ESB (which isn't quite ready yet) is more hoppy than a regular pale ale...

It seems so obvious, but beer that are maltier are going to taste funny when you use a different malt, while beers that are dominated by hops, yeast, or additive flavors are going to taste more normal...
 
@spaced, this site is truly a treasure-trove of knowledge; I reckon we are at the bleeding edge of brewing, so having a pool of knowledge to draw on is absolutely invaluable. It would be cool to do a quarterly summary of our successes and failures, and archive them somewhere as a sort of distillation of the discussions on here, making it more accessible than the current (somewhat chaotic) state of things. I might give a go at that as I get more organized.
 
@spaced, this site is truly a treasure-trove of knowledge; I reckon we are at the bleeding edge of brewing, so having a pool of knowledge to draw on is absolutely invaluable. It would be cool to do a quarterly summary of our successes and failures, and archive them somewhere as a sort of distillation of the discussions on here, making it more accessible than the current (somewhat chaotic) state of things. I might give a go at that as I get more organized.

This would be hugely helpful for those of us that are just getting into GF brewing ... although considering how much work it would be, I can see why it hasn't been done yet.
 
A wiki-spaces page might be a good way to do it, that way we could all contribute as we feel like it. I'll look into that.
 
igliashon said:
A wiki-spaces page might be a good way to do it, that way we could all contribute as we feel like it. I'll look into that.

This is an excellent idea, and I am more than happy to help out.
 

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