English "sparge" method

I did my first all grain brew using the English method. I mashed @ 153F for 60 minutes, drained the liquid off (4 gals). Added 4 for gallons of 165F water and mashed @ 160F for 60 minutes. Drained all the liquid off, combined the two rubbings and went on to boil. According to brew pal I got 78% efficiency. Does anyone have much experience using this method? Did I do it correctly? What do you guys think?

I don't think the second hour-long mash would get you any more conversion and really just wastes time. I was able to do a normal batch sparge recently and got 85% efficiency.

[Edit: From most of my readings on this forum, you get near full conversion after 30-45 minutes.]

This is also known as batch sparging. Yes, you did it correctly, especially if you are going to do a partigyle - the same amount of water for each of the two runnings. When I'm combining the runnings into a single wort, however, my initial infusion is at a ratio of 1.25 - 2.0 quarts per pound of grain (I aim for 1.3 qt/lb), and then sparge with enough water to get my pre-boil volume.

Can I ask why you left the sparge water in for an hour?

I believe that the sparge water is to just rinse additional sugars from the grain, so you should just be able to mix the sparge water, let it sit for 5-10 minutes and then collect the runnings.

Missed the part about mashing for a 2nd hour. Not necessary. 10-15 minutes while your mash tun drains is all that's needed.

Ok. So if I do the 2nd "mash" for 15 minutes I'll get the same result?

Patstarr777 said:

Ok. So if I do the 2nd "mash" for 15 minutes I'll get the same result?

Click to expand...

Likely you would, stirring well prior to the rest may also help to "rinse" the remaining sugars from the grain

wilserbrewer said:

Likely you would, stirring well prior to the rest may also help to "rinse" the remaining sugars from the grain

Click to expand...

Cool! That saves me 45 minutes! That's for the response.

Ace_Club said:

Can I ask why you left the sparge water in for an hour?

I believe that the sparge water is to just rinse additional sugars from the grain, so you should just be able to mix the sparge water, let it sit for 5-10 minutes and then collect the runnings.

Click to expand...

That's how I took it to be done when you use the English method. My MLT and brew pot are one in the same.

You might want to think about making that "second 15 minute mash" a mashout/sparge at 168˚-170˚ to halt the majority of the enzymatic activity.

Patstarr777 said:

Drained all the liquid off, combined the two rubbings and went on to boil.

Click to expand...

I agree with the other posters, but one thing is for sure: from now on I will only ever call them rubbings.

Where is this 'English method' coming from? You might also find it better to do two smaller batch sparges. Sparge 1: 2 gal of 180-185F water (grain bed should reach 170F), stir, sit for 10 mins, drain, repeat the same for sparge 2.

I do it like the Gremlyn. I mash with 173, and without preheating the cooler the temp after 15 minutes is 152. I leave it sit for 60 to 90 minutes and it is still around 151. Sparge with 183, stir for 5 minutes and let sit for 10 or 15 minutes. Sparge again with 183, stir and sit, grain bed ends up at 170.

Northcalais40 said:

I agree with the other posters, but one thing is for sure: from now on I will only ever call them rubbings.

Click to expand...

Ha ha. My stupid IPhone autocorrected should be runnings.

Gremlyn1 said:

Where is this 'English method' coming from? You might also find it better to do two smaller batch sparges. Sparge 1: 2 gal of 180-185F water (grain bed should reach 170F), stir, sit for 10 mins, drain, repeat the same for sparge 2.

Click to expand...

I read it somewhere, maybe Palmer. The article I read said the english brewers didn't sparge but did two separate mashes and sometimes combine them, sometime make a lighter beer with the second mash.

mrk305 said:

I do it like the Gremlyn. I mash with 173, and without preheating the cooler the temp after 15 minutes is 152. I leave it sit for 60 to 90 minutes and it is still around 151. Sparge with 183, stir for 5 minutes and let sit for 10 or 15 minutes. Sparge again with 183, stir and sit, grain bed ends up at 170.

Click to expand...

What's your efficiency?

headfullahops said:

You might want to think about making that "second 15 minute mash" a mashout/sparge at 168˚-170˚ to halt the majority of the enzymatic activity.

Click to expand...

Ok. I'm new at this. Why do you want to stop the enzymatic activity? Isn't 170 the temp you start getting tannins?

Patstarr777 said:

I read it somewhere, maybe Palmer. The article I read said the english brewers didn't sparge but did two separate mashes and sometimes combine them, sometime make a lighter beer with the second mash.

Click to expand...

Indeed the 2nd runnings (you're right, the iPhone wants to change that to rubbings--whatever the heck THOSE are) can be used- aka, "small beer." I did this once with an imperial porter, with the 2nd making for a 'small porter.' Worked out wonderfully!

Pastarr777, what you are referring to is partigyle, which is used for making more than 1 beer from a mash. Even with partigyle, no more than 1 long term mash is needed, the runnings are just split into two or more beers. With my method, I have had efficiency into the 85% range commonly.

Gremlyn1 said:

Pastarr777, what you are referring to is partigyle, which is used for making more than 1 beer from a mash. Even with partigyle, no more than 1 long term mash is needed, the runnings are just split into two or more beers. With my method, I have had efficiency into the 85% range commonly.

Click to expand...

Wow! That's pretty darn good! Being as this was my first shot at AG, your experience is far greater than mine so I will follow your advice. Do you use a cooler type MLT?

Patstarr777 said:

Wow! That's pretty darn good! Being as this was my first shot at AG, your experience is far greater than mine so I will follow your advice. Do you use a cooler type MLT?

Click to expand...

Yep, my old set up was a 5 gallon round cooler with a false bottom. I'm building a new brew system with the 70qt Coleman Xtreme cooler and a copper manifold, so we shall see if I can maintain the same efficiency... fingers crossed!

Gremlyn1 said:

Yep, my old set up was a 5 gallon round cooler with a false bottom. I'm building a new brew system with the 70qt Coleman Xtreme cooler and a copper manifold, so we shall see if I can maintain the same efficiency... fingers crossed!

Click to expand...

Yeah, I looked at the post you wrote about it with pics. Looks great! I'm going to set up something similar this weekend (MLT cooler) not ready to build a brew stand yet.

Patstarr777 said:

Yeah, I looked at the post you wrote about it with pics. Looks great! I'm going to set up something similar this weekend (MLT cooler) not ready to build a brew stand yet.

Click to expand...

The brew stand was a major commitment, I've been asked how much money is in it so far and I don't really want to know... Time alone sunk into planning, purchasing, and assembly is a ton!

Gremlyn1 said:

The brew stand was a major commitment, I've been asked how much money is in it so far and I don't really want to know... Time alone sunk into planning, purchasing, and assembly is a ton!

Click to expand...

I have one on my list. After a MLT, kegging equipment and a keggerator-but it is on the list!

Gremlyn1 said:

I'm building a new brew system with the 70qt Coleman Xtreme cooler and a copper manifold,

Click to expand...

That's the cooler I built my mash tun out of (actually bought a 2nd one for my HLT, too). Walmart.com: cheapest place I found it by far! Picked up a small-ish spade shovel from home depot that's GREAT for scooping out the spent grains.

ChadLeBald said:

That's the cooler I built my mash tun out of (actually bought a 2nd one for my HLT, too). Walmart.com: cheapest place I found it by far! Picked up a small-ish spade shovel from home depot that's GREAT for scooping out the spent grains.

Click to expand...

70qts is huge! Would 52qt be adequate for 10 gal brews? What's the advantage of using a 70qt?

Patstarr777 said:

70qts is huge! Would 52qt be adequate for 10 gal brews? What's the advantage of using a 70qt?

Click to expand...

It is sizable for sure. I do 10 gal brews and for MOST recipes, a 52 qt would probably be okay. But for high gravity brews, the extra sugars mean extra grains and water meaning more space!

And actually, if you ever batch sparge, 70 qt is probably necessary no matter what 10-gal recipe you're doing.

Always better to have a bit o extra room than too little!

Patstarr777 said:

70qts is huge! Would 52qt be adequate for 10 gal brews? What's the advantage of using a 70qt?

Click to expand...

I can make REALLY REALLY BIG beers in 10 gal batches

I bought the 52 qt. K-Mart of all places had it on sale for $29. I'm going to lowes this morning to buy the parts for the guts.

I always batch sparge. The initial mash is almost always 60 minutes for the beers I make, then, after lautering, I throw in 3 gal. of 170F sparge water, stir well, and lauter that with no further wait. Hit my numbers on the refractometer, works for me.

{NB: It is my understanding that, with modern malts, the enzyme conversion of startch to sugar will happen in 20-25 minutes, in an hour for sure. So, like many in this thread, I see no point in waiting for any particular time for the sparge. Just stir it up good to make sure those remaining sugars get diluted into the water, then go for it.}

I built my MLT. Brewing tomorrow!

Patstarr777 said:

I built my MLT. Brewing tomorrow!

Click to expand...

Whatcha making?

Northcalais40 said:

I agree with the other posters, but one thing is for sure: from now on I will only ever call them rubbings.

Click to expand...

+1. Awesome. Gotta love phone spelling corrections.

barrooze said:

Whatcha making?

Click to expand...

I'm helping my son brew a porter and I'm brewing an ESB

Awesome! Sounds like an awesome time! Brewed with my dad in Nov and he loved it. I wish you guys a pleasant brewday!

barrooze said:

Awesome! Sounds like an awesome time! Brewed with my dad in Nov and he loved it. I wish you guys a pleasant brewday!

Click to expand...

Thanks! It's the opposite with me and my kid, I got him interested.

Patstarr777 said:

Thanks! It's the opposite with me and my kid, I got him interested.

Click to expand...

You know, it almost isnt the opposite. My wife (then gf) bought my a beginner kit in 04, but my dad was brewing in the early 80s but stopped in the late 80s. That was what really peaked my interest. I hope to peak my own sons interest in the craft when he's old enough.

What? My son's only 4!

J/K ......24

Nice! my son turns 1 next week!

You're a puppy...guess that makes me an old fart.