Beer has a very thin watery like body

Here's my recipe:
9 lbs two row pale malt
12 oz. Crystal Malt 60l
8 oz. Biscuit Malt
4 oz. Roasted Barley
1oz. Centinnial Hops 9-11 alpha% (boil 60 mins)
1/2 oz. Centinnial Hops (boil 20 mins)
1/2 oz. Centinnial Hops (boil 5 mins)
1oz. Centinnial Hops (Dry Hop 1 week)

Flavor itself turned out decent, the color good, and the aroma is really good.
The problem is the body is kinda watery. What are some possible culprits for this. The only thing I can think of would be maybe my strike water wasn't hot enough... for some reason once it hit my mash tun and the grain went in I couldn't get the mash above 149 degrees. I've read that mashing between 148 and 158 is sufficient, but could this for any reason be the culprit in creating watery beer? If not what are some other possibilities?

Higher mash temps lead to unfermentable sugars which will give you more body and some residual sweetness. Lower mash temps will give you thinner dryer beers.

Lower mash temps will result in more fermentables and less dextrines, thus a thinner body. I assume you mashed until conversion was complete and your OG/FG were reasonable?

michaeltrego said:

Lower mash temps will result in more fermentables and less dextrines, thus a thinner body. I assume you mashed until conversion was complete and your OG/FG were reasonable?

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Gotcha...lower temp=more fermentables=more alcohol to thin it out. I mashed for and Hour and my SG was at 1.040. What mash temp should I strive for for optimal results in both body and fermentables?

Depends on the style of beer and the flavour profile you are trying for. What was your FG for this batch?

One thing about lower mash temperatures and thinner body - I seem to notice thinner body in my beers if I don't do a mash-out. For example, if I mash at 154 and just drain off the wort into my kettle, followed by a couple of batch sparges, it seems that the temperature drop during that time (which can be 20 minutes or more) is enough to continue breaking down starch resulting in a thinner beer.

michaelpeach76 said:

Gotcha...lower temp=more fermentables=more alcohol to thin it out. I mashed for and Hour and my SG was at 1.040. What mash temp should I strive for for optimal results in both body and fermentables?

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I've been mashing pretty high the last few batches, maybe a little too high at around 155. The beers are good with lots of body, but maybe a bit too much at times. This last batch I mashed at 149 and I have a beer very similar to yours. I'm going with 151-152 next time for my pale and IPA.

As a personal rule of thumb, I start with 153F for most ales, and adjust up or down depending on what I want to do, but seldom by more than a couple degrees. I mash smaller beers (lower OG) a bit higher to retain some body, and bigger beers lower to avoid had a beer that's too malty/sweet.

M_C

Agreed - for a small 1.040 beer where you still want to retain some body, I would aim for the high end of the range (maybe 155-156). Again, though, it depends what you're going for.

I used to feel that body did not make so much difference to me, but I mashed one of my last beers at 150F and totally ruined what was by all other accounts a really excellent beer. I wanted to get more alcohol in my beer and learned a valuable lesson. I did get the desired effect, but at the expense of lasting flavor The body of the beer is not JUST about mouthfeel, but it also affects how the taste of the beer lingers in your mouth.

I would go with what MC says, as I have also found this to be a good all-around temperature for ales...and going higher on the temp for smaller beers is also very sound advice.

Misplaced_Canuck said:

As a personal rule of thumb, I start with 153F for most ales, and adjust up or down depending on what I want to do, but seldom by more than a couple degrees. I mash smaller beers (lower OG) a bit higher to retain some body, and bigger beers lower to avoid had a beer that's too malty/sweet.

M_C

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Yep, me too. I make 75% IPA/APA/American ambers and mash the majority of them at 153. For my oatmeal stout, which I like full, thick, and rich, I'll mash at 156. The only beers I mash below 152 are Belgian triples, cream ales, IIPAs etc, where I want a thin dry crisp mouthfeel or risk underattenuation (like for the IIPA).

I recently did a molasses porter at 156. Super super rich coffee, chocolate and molasses flavours, thick and creamy.

A couple of other things I just thought of! First, make sure your thermometer is accurate. If you're off even 2 degrees, mashing at 147 (for example) means that you would have mashed at 145 which is low, even for the lowest mashing temperature!

The other considerations would be recipe related, like yeast attenuation and malt bill.

If you want a fuller beer in the end, use a less attenuative yeast. For example, pacman yeast is a beast and will give you an attenuation rate of upwards of 85% in a low temperature mash. But dry Windsor yeast might give you 63%. That's another way to manipulate the body.

Another thing is the ingredients- "body building" ingredients such as crystal malt, dextrine malt (carapils), flaked barley, flaked wheat, etc, will give a perception of fullness to the beer.

Your recipe, though, should be fine and be medium bodied if mashed at a more appropriate temperature. Make sure you start warmer in the MLT and let the water drop to the correct strike temperature. It's easier to drop the temperature of a too-warm mash (5 ice cubes for example), then to raise the temperature of a too-cool mash!

coastwx said:

I've been mashing pretty high the last few batches, maybe a little too high at around 155. The beers are good with lots of body, but maybe a bit too much at times. This last batch I mashed at 149 and I have a beer very similar to yours. I'm going with 151-152 next time for my pale and IPA.

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With my recipe I was going for an American Amber...similar to rogue's. Everything was there: the flavor, the aroma....just the body was off. At least now I know...the next time I do this recipe I'll go for maybe 153-154 mash temp. And I hear 'ya there...I'll mash 151-152 also for a pale and maybe 149 for a pilsner or lager. Maybe 157-158 for a porter or stout....?

michaelpeach76 said:

With my recipe I was going for an American Amber...similar to rogue's. Everything was there: the flavor, the aroma....just the body was off. At least now I know...the next time I do this recipe I'll go for maybe 153-154 mash temp. And I hear 'ya there...I'll mash 151-152 also for a pale and maybe 149 for a pilsner or lager. Maybe 157-158 for a porter or stout....?

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probably not always that cut and dried but yes. i always mash high, 156 for pale ales and got away from the problem you have, no body in my beers. i don't mash out and i don't think that matters as far as body is concerned.

How about water hardness? I have very clean water, nearly distilled, and no matter what temperature I mash at, I get thin beer....

Hex said:

How about water hardness? I have very clean water, nearly distilled, and no matter what temperature I mash at, I get thin beer....

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I usually use bottled drinking water that I like the taste of.

Yeah, I think reverse osmosis or purified bottled water is like mine--very soft.
This will effect the mash pH, and result in thin bodied beer, no matter what temperature you mash at.
For instance here is my local water report:
Ca-7 ppm
SO4-6.1
Mg-1.5
Na-4.1
Cl-3.1
Alk-22.8

And I have been recommended to add the following to make a maltier ESB:

I would add 2.5g gypsum and 5g of calcium chloride to the mash if using the light colored golden promise(simpsons 1.7-2L)
If using the Fawcett (2.3-3L) I'd probably go (1.5 gypsum mash / 1boil) (3g CaCl mash/ 2 boil)

This has:
Ca:67
Cl: 78
SO4: 49 --> I feel a little sulfate adds "crispness" to the beer. Some people disagree, but hey, we all have our opinions.

Mash pH: 5.45

Dough in, check pH, add phosphoric or lactic acid to lower pH to 5.4-5.5. I like 10% phosphoric acid b/c it's flavor neutral.
If mash pH is below 5.3, add lime to raise it.

Use sparge water untreated. Check sparge pH after water is stirred into grain. Add acid if pH 5.8 or higher.

Boil pH should be ~ 5-5.2.


.......So, you might want to look to water chemistry as a solution to watery beer.....

What yeast did you use and how have you carbonated it?

I find different combinations can give different illusions of body.
For example, if I make a bitter with an English ale yeast and serve it pretty flat, it often seems to have a thick rich body. However, if I put the gas up too high on the keg so it goes a bit fizzy, it suddenly tastes very thin. With cleaner hoppy beers this often works the other way around.

This page in How to Brew suggests that temperature and pH are BOTH important enzymic requirements.
According to the chart, if your mash pH is below 5.3, you will not get the alpha amylase reaction at all--hence watery beer.

Hex said:

This page in How to Brew suggests that temperature and pH are BOTH important enzymic requirements.
According to the chart, if your mash pH is below 5.3, you will not get the alpha amylase reaction at all--hence watery beer.

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But the chances that the mash pH would be below 5.3 would be practically null. The usual problem is a too-high pH, not too low.

Either way, pH too high or too low, you won't get the beer you're expecting regardless of the mash temperature. Mash pH is directly affected by water hardness.

If you are trying to brew malty English Ales with snow melt, distilled, RO, or purified water, good luck, I haven't been able to do it with out adjusting hardness...