Should I do a Blichmann 15/15/20 or 20/20/20 setup?

I'm trying to decide what size Blichmann brew pots to get for 10 gal brewing sessions.

I'm torn between 15/15/20 gallon or a 20/20/20 gallon setup (HTL, MLT, BK).

My thoughts are to go 20/20/20 because:

- The HLT at 20 instead of 15 because I want to have a lot of hot water left over for cleaning. I understand that strike water heat time will take longer because of this but I'm all electric and may only have my BK or HLT plugged in at once so I can't heat more HLT water while I boil in the BK.

- The MLT at 20 instead of 15 to account for higher gravity brews that use a lot more grain ... "just in case".

- While I intend to brew 10 gal (post boil) batches in the 20 gal BK, I want to have the flexibility of doing some 15 gal batches too maybe (it may be close though most of the local guys I talk to say that a 20 gal BK is more than enough to do produce 15 gals of [final] wort).

- The price difference between the 15 and 20 pots isn't much.

- I just find that three pots of the same size on a single-tier brew brew sculpture look so much nicer.


So does this make sense? Are there any caveats I'm missing? The only one I can think of that with some very low gravity brews the thermometer in the MLT may be above the mash. Not really much of a big deal as I'll be using thermocouples/PIDs anyway so the Blichmann thermometers are just a backup.

Are there any other advantages that I've overlooked?

Kal

You can not go wrong with 20 gallon pots. Go for it.

Go for the 20-gallon pots. For one thing, I agree that it's aesthetically more pleasing. For another, you can opt for 15 as well as 10-gallon brew lengths.

Reclaiming hot water from the wort-chilling process is a good idea. Makes the whole operation more efficient.

I'm just jealous because you can drop this kind of coin!

Bob

Thanks for the feedback guys.

BobNQ3X said:

Reclaiming hot water from the wort-chilling process is a good idea. Makes the whole operation more efficient.

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That *is* a good idea but it wasn't mine! Are you referring to taking the warm water output of a CFC or other chiller and dumping it into the HLT to then use to clean the whole system after? I never thought of that... but it's a good idea.

Some people like to fill their laundry tub with the warm water but this make more sense to me. Back in the HLT, add some Oxyclean, recirc it through everything with the pumps to clean things out, then flush with water.

I'm just jealous because you can drop this kind of coin!

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As my wife says: This will (ie: better) last me a very long time. So I want to do it right the first time.

I was even thinking of 20/20/30 but I think a 30 gal brew kettle may be overkill as I'll mostly do 10 gallon batches, and maybe 15 sometimes. The only time I think I may want to go larger is if I batch-brew with someone else and split the results. (Which may or may not happen).

Kal

It's always wise to have a larger HLT than anything else, because you use far more hot liquor than anything else. Why fill and refill the HLT when you can put the entire brew length's worth of liquor in the HLT the night before and let it simmer? (By that I mean letting it get pretty hot, just like an electric hot water heater; your electric system will have that advantage over gas-fired brewers.)

Oh, and yeah, I was referring to using the stuff you get from the CFC to clean. Collect it and use it just as you say. Get it up to 180+F and use your cleaner of choice. I prefer PBW or caustic (which I can bum from the dairy farmer up the road), but YMMV.

Do the Blingmann pots come with lids that seal pretty well? If they do, see about getting them modified for spray balls. Makes cleanup a HELL of a lot easier. Pump cleaning solution into the vessel, connect the fluid-out to the in side of the pump, connect the out side of the pump to the spray-ball. Switch the pump on, go do something else for a half-hour.

Something to think about!

Bob

Bob, I think your idea of the spray ball may be something I need look into further. I use the reclaimed hot water and PBW but I hate moving kettles around and the idea of CIP sounds better and better. A couple of additional quick connects and CIP may be a reality for my setup.

Thanks for the feedback Bob.

BobNQ3X said:

Do the Blingmann pots come with lids that seal pretty well? If they do, see about getting them modified for spray balls. Makes cleanup a HELL of a lot easier. Pump cleaning solution into the vessel, connect the fluid-out to the in side of the pump, connect the out side of the pump to the spray-ball. Switch the pump on, go do something else for a half-hour.

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That's a very interesting idea. Not sure if the lids are sealed at all. I'm guessing not. To be seen.

I do like the CIP (cleaning-in-place) idea.

You could put one of these in the lid and recirc the cleaner through it:



A 2-pump setup would have all you need to clean the BK and MLT. HLT wouldn't need any cleaning other than a litle soak I suppose.

Kal

Are you going to put element directly in the pots? How are you going to do it? Just with a nut, or use a bushing?

I sorta clean in place, but I don't use a spray ball. I capture about 10 gallons of my chiller water in my HLT and use it to clean my BK. I use a cooler for my mash tun, so I just dump it outside and it just needs a quick rinse. I run about 2 gallons into my BK, add a little PBW, recirculate a bit through that plate chiller, and with some splashing and a little light scrubbing, all the gunk comes off. Pump that down the drain. Pump in another 2 or so gallons, recirculate to rinse out chiller. Pump that out. repeat the rinses until out of water. Takes about 15 minutes to clean everything.

bakins said:

Are you going to put element directly in the pots? How are you going to do it? Just with a nut, or use a bushing?

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Elements will be right in the pots (is there any other way to do it?). How exactly I attach it I haven't figured out yet. I'll use whatever way is considered the best.

Kal

You're going to need a stronger pump than a march. It'll barely create a drizzle in there. Morebeer sells these, and there's a special high pressure pump. Since you don't have to worry about it being food grade, just make sure it's high-temp and you can probably find one for relatively cheap online. Alternatively, I know some folks like dishwasher pumps. Maybe that'll be a cheaper option?

Steve's right: I was thinking about how much pushing power the March pumps have and I can't imagine it would be enough to squirt with a spray ball.

Kal

20/20/20 will do just fine
when you do a big beer make a 5-7 gallon batch

Boar Beer said:

20/20/20 will do just fine
when you do a big beer make a 5-7 gallon batch

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Thanks. That's a good point. Bigger beers usually aren't made to the same volumes as the 'regular' stuff. I've pretty much decided on a 20/20/20 setup. Just have to get in my order now and start building the stand (and the million other things that need to be done).

Kal

kal said:

Thanks. That's a good point. Bigger beers usually aren't made to the same volumes as the 'regular' stuff. Kal

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I have to step in and disagree on this one. These so called big bier's like a Imperial Russian Stout that my friend and I like his brews ends up at 15 gallons in the corny's after the frementer. No 5 gallon batches unless it's a new and untested recipe. He brews off 20 to 25 gallon commercial food production stainless keggles collected off the remodel jobs he works on.
If it's a bier you like might as well brew a large volume as the labor and time are about the same just a larger grain and hops bill.

Well sure, but my point was that if it's a 8-9% alc/vol beer you're not going to drink as much as something that's your typical 5% beer, so it'll go farther.

Kal

So I've gone ahead and ordered a three Blichmann 20 gal pots from NB. Thanks for all the feedback guys.

Can't wait to start working on this AG setup!

Kal

You will definitely finish before me!! lol

I am glad to hear you are on your way. Keep us updated!

My 20 gal Blichmann's arrived recently... currently trying to figure out the best approach to the electric setup and source 5500W RIPP ULWD elements (hard to find in Canada it seems).

Some brew-porn pics:







How's your build going Justin? Any updates?

Kal

Damn, that is pretty. I just felt a sticky warmth in my jeans.

kal said:

Well sure, but my point was that if it's a 8-9% alc/vol beer you're not going to drink as much as something that's your typical 5% beer, so it'll go farther.

Kal

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Sorry Kal answer me this, if that "5%" is not what I and others like in a bier and a big grain bill bier of "8-9%" is, why would I even consider brewing a 5% of something I and others do not like?

I have friends family over that can empty a Stout and Porter corny keg rather quickly besides my family alone likes them. Even my son and daughter 17 and 15 like my Stouts and Porters and can not stand store canned or bottled light water biers offered at parties, this even if it's a homebrewed bier. Just don't spill a dark or black Stout on any white clothing, stained like a black diesel oil change.

I want the capacity to be able to make a full batch of a large grain bill without having to reduce the recipe amount because of undersized keggles for what I want to brew. When building a brewing system from scratch why have limiting flaws built in from the start?

True there are hot thirsty drinking days when a light low % bier goes down by the gallon then other times a litre glass of 11% Stout might last 20 minutes by sipping this a rare occurrence. Not going to happen in my house full of friends, family of German and Russians I party with. No light biers or low % biers allowed at a couple houses. Considered an insult by many.

One Russian / German family member with waterfront property months ago had a party, we started out with 85 pound BBQ pig with one 15.5 rental keg plus 2 corny's. Ended up three 15.5 rentals and 8 cornys all MT. A bunch of thirsty Germans and Russians that day wanting their bier. Good thing I live only 1/2 block away and supplied 6 of 8 corny's. All big biers with high % alcohol.

Thanks for the money shots Kal!!! That is awesome:rockin:

My progress is as follows...... ........

I have a pretty empty wallet after the holidays and my loved ones don't buy me brewing stuff..... On the up side I do have many new additions to my closet...

Good luck on the rest of the build and I will post if I have any new ideas or make some progress.

This is proof that the governments stimulus money return program is working.


On the Blichmann BoilerMaker it states on the tag "do not lift or move when full". Has anyone
ever asked Blichmann why this warning sticker?

BrewBeemer said:

Sorry Kal answer me this, if that "5%" is not what I and others like in a bier and a big grain bill bier of "8-9%" is, why would I even consider brewing a 5% of something I and others do not like?

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You shouldn't. You should always brew whatever you like. You know that of course. That wasn't my point. All I was saying was that all things being equal, people who drink 5% beer will drink more volume of beer than someone who drinks 10% beer. All other things being equal of course.

Make what you want, do what you want.

BrewBeemer said:

On the Blichmann BoilerMaker it states on the tag "do not lift or move when full". Has anyone ever asked Blichmann why this warning sticker?

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Numerous reasons: The bolts in the handles aren't meant to support that sort of weight, the kettles will be very heavy for anyone to lift and may spill. Not something you want if the wort/water is hot either.

The handles are only for making moving the kettles around easier when they're empty.

Kal

I would hope that the handles on the 10 gal could support the weight of ~7 gal of liquid. I'm looking at getting one of these, and I have to move my pot since I'm an indoor brewer using a stove and can't exactly have a tiered setup on my counter. If those handles can't support 50 lbs I may as well not bother.

Other option I suppose would be to pump from the mash tun to the brewpot, but that's just more cost to get a pump.

Buford said:

I would hope that the handles on the 10 gal could support the weight of ~7 gal of liquid. I'm looking at getting one of these, and I have to move my pot since I'm an indoor brewer using a stove and can't exactly have a tiered setup on my counter. If those handles can't support 50 lbs I may as well not bother.

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I would email John Blichmann directly on that one. Email's on their website and he's very responsive.

Kal

I primarily brew 10 gallon batches and was going to go Blichmann 20 20 30. I bought the 20 mashtun first and using 27 lbs of grain for an IPA, the level in the pot is barely to the probe. In my opinion not giving a good read of mash temp. Doing a 18 or 20 lb batch would not get to the gauge at all.

I switched directions and now am using the 20 as the boil kettle and ordering the 15 for a mashtun. It is much better sized for ten gallon batches and will allow me to squeek out a 15 gallon batch when needed.

They recommend a 15/15/20 setup for 10g batches for exactly that reason.

This is the page you should read for selection.

A good heads up guys.

In my case I'm using RTD temp probes for my setup so I'm all electric so it won't be an isse (the probes will be in the plumbing as I recirc the mash). If I could have bough Blichmann pots without the thermometers I would have as I won't even really be using them ...

(I ordered a 20/20/20 setup and will be doing 10 and possibly 15 gallon batches).

Kal