Beer line tests & solution to the "plastic" taste

OK - so to recap I understand all the info that JuanMoore provided (thank you). I have an 11 keg keezer with 5 taps. It has 2 nitrogen mixers and four secondary regulators. I am building it to essentially allow me to brew and dispense whatever I want (from 4.0 vol lambics down to 1.5 vol stouts). Each tap will have a different length line - so I will have to match the tap to the beer.

My basic House Lager carbs at 12 psi at 36F. So based on the thumbrule I would need 12 ft of normal 3/16" beverage hose. But I would prefer Bev-Seal Ultra - therefore will need 24 feet for that tap. Damn - gonna need 200 feet to install lines for these 5 taps - maybe 300 feet.... Does this sound reasonable?

Thanks!

Wait - I need to do some math...

Yup. All five faucets rigged to handle 4 volumes at 36°F would need a total of 260 feet of tubing.
Woof!

I have a feeling it would actually be cheaper to buy a set of 650SS Perls and run 10 feet of tubing per faucet...

Cheers!

The 1 foot per psi is a great rule of thumb for up to ~40F and ~2.7 vol. Higher carb levels will require more line, but colder temps will require less. I'm not sure how that rule of thumb would fare at 36F and 4 vol, but I'd guess it would just barely be long enough. Even one degree warmer and it'll be way too short for sure though. And my personal experience is that the bev-seal ultra generally needs to be 1.25 to 1.5 times longer than standard vinyl line to get the same pour.

The length of the nitro lines is irrelevant. Just make them long enough to make maneuvering the kegs around easy, 5-6 feet. The resistance there comes from the restrictor plate in the nitro faucet, not the line.

My suggestion would be to make all of the rest of the lines the same length, the longest you think you'll ever need. You'll find that trying to keep the same style on each faucet is a major PITA, and allowing each faucet to be able to serve anything will make your life infinitely easier.

day_trippr said:

Wait - I need to do some math...

Yup. All five faucets rigged to handle 4 volumes at 36°F would need a total of 260 feet of tubing.
Woof!

I have a feeling it would actually be cheaper to buy a set of 650SS Perls and run 10 feet of tubing per faucet...

Cheers!

Click to expand...

EDIT - hadn't read JuanMoore's post yet - he answered my Stout question. Thank you, Sir!

Don't get me wrong - I do have lots of screws loose according to my Wife, but I am not intending all five to be full 4.0 vol at 36F taps. Only 1. I will probably put 25 ft on tap 1, 25 ft on tap 2, 35 ft on tap 3, 50 ft on tap 4.

OK - adding JuanMoore's thoughts and Day Trippers into one:

Make the first 3 taps each have 33 ft of line (total one 100ft spool). That limits me to serving a 3.0 vol beer (16 psi at 36F). Set tap 4 at 50 feet (25 psi at 26F) - 4 vols which can cover about any beer within reason. Tap 5 is a stout setup - basic line length (7-10 feet) for ease of use.

Total line is 160 feet - so 2 spools with enough to replace one line if needed.

Too bad I already bought the four Perlick 630SS taps.... Shoulda made 1 or 2 of them 650's. <sigh> - did not understand what flow control was at that point.

SWEET! I really appreciate the help!

Kjuckett1025 said:

Anyone know any links to current deals on this line?

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THIS

and THIS

CHIcompany.net also has amazing prices on this line. Either them or Birdman are spot on! Just don't buy it all before I get the $$$ for mine next week...

day_trippr said:

Wait - I need to do some math...

Yup. All five faucets rigged to handle 4 volumes at 36°F would need a total of 260 feet of tubing.
Woof!

I have a feeling it would actually be cheaper to buy a set of 650SS Perls and run 10 feet of tubing per faucet...

Cheers!

Click to expand...

What he said! ^^^

Just got mine today...

Bastage!!!

-TH- said:

For what it's worth I've been using LDPE tubing 1/4" OD .170 ID (made by Freelin Wade, specs here: http://www.freelin-wade.com/documents/Freelin-Wade_Polyethylene.pdf) with great success. Its cheap ($0.07 - $0.09 per foot), impermeable to gasses (no oxidation issues), works great in push-to-connect fittings which I use a lot of, has a small ID which provides good resistance and therefore does not require long lengths in order to balance, and has no plastic taste that I can detect (my guess is it would be equivalent to #9 in the OP).

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Does anyone else use 1/4" OD poly tubing?

It seems poly tubing with push-fit connectors is a great and easy solution to dispensing without vinyl.

Been reading all day about tubing and such trying to get my keezer set up. There's a lot of good info here but it's been awhile and I was wondering if anyone here has used this tubing
https://www.morebeer.com/products/e...-tubing-532-4-mm-id-516-8-od-placeholder.htmlit seems to sound just like the accuflex tubing but the tubing and connectors are cheap

Here you go:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/accuflex-ultra-235-vs-kegland-eva-barrier.668944/

The EVABarrier tubing is quite different from the Accuflex 235 line. Much more flexible, and the available IDs are more useful than the 1/5" ID of the 235 - where 235 might need 18 feet of tubing to tame an average pale ale, you can get away with 5 feet of the 4mm ID EVABarrier line.

The tubing did seem inexpensive (I went through 4+ rolls converting everything over, both beer and gas side) but I would expect fitting cost to be a wash vs 235...

Cheers!

I haven't used the EVA Barrier tubing, but I can comment on the stiffness of the BevSeal Ultra 235 line. It's not an issue in the keezer, but it was a really tight fit in my homemade tap tower compared to the vinyl line I was using before.

However, I have zero off-flavors from the Ultra 235 line (compared to vinyl, which was terrible), and I am 100% happy with that one. It's the only line I would ever use going forward. I'll keep my vinyl tubing for picnic taps and keg transfers.

Thanks all with further reading on EVAbarrier it seemed the way to go 100% so I ordered the whole shabang for gas and beer. May have over done it with check valves and ball valves but sounds like it should all last for quite awhile so worth it.
I had made a ginger wheat and was tasting the whole rubber taste thing and man I can't believe I drank the first few oz of beer. That was why I contemplating dumping the keg lol. Also explains why the stout got better with time. (and pours) Glad I won't have to waste any beer now

Bobby_M said:

Let it sit unpoured for more than an hour for a change!

No, seriously, after letting it sit overnight, pour only a 2oz taster, then pour off another few ounces into a pint glass, then pour another 2oz taster. Do an A/B blind taste test. The last 2oz pour will taste much better than the first.

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Thanks for that.

To prevent line taste, I don't use lines. I use this flow controller.

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Hom...and-Stainless-Flow-Control-Ball-Lock-Threaded

just john said:

To prevent line taste, I don't use lines. I use this flow controller.

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Hom...and-Stainless-Flow-Control-Ball-Lock-Threaded

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How is that flow control ball lock working for you? I see Kegland has a plastic version just out, but it uses duotight fittings which I'm not sure I want to trust being leakproof. Besides, I have flare fittings on my beer lines now, so this would be a (albeit pricey) easy swap for my current ball lock disconnects.

kartracer said:

How is that flow control ball lock working for you? I see Kegland has a plastic version just out, but it uses duotight fittings which I'm not sure I want to trust being leakproof. Besides, I have flare fittings on my beer lines now, so this would be a (albeit pricey) easy swap for my current ball lock disconnects.

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It works great.