Simple control panel wiring help

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HossTheGreat

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So, I'm thinking about converting from propane to electric and need some help. I currently use a converted half barrel sanke and do BIAB. What I'd like to do is have a single 240v element. Since I BIAB, I'll be doing my mash as well as my boil with the same element. I've been reading up a bit and would like to do a simple control panel with a single PID/SSR so that I can control my mash temps and then switch to a manual mode for the boil. I'm just a little confused about how to wire up the control panel. I know it's probably really simple, and but I just need some help with a wiring diagram. I'm thinking about using a 30A GFCI breaker from my main panel to feed the control panel....I just need a little assistance with how to wire up the control panel. If anyone has any input, I'd greatly appreciate it.
 
Upon some further reading, it appears that many recommend the use of a second SSR in the event that one should fail. I found another post where someone posted a wiring diagram that I believe covers what I'm trying to accomplish. Any thoughts on whether or not this will be suitable? The only other thing that I'd like to add would be a switch to kill the power to the entire panel if needed.

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I'm not an electrician, but it looks like that diagram is showing using an SSR for each leg of the 240 v circuit, not as a back up device.
 
I don't believe that it's being used as a back up in the sense you're thinking of. From what I understand, if an SSR fails, it generally fails in an "ON" state. If only one SSR is used, there is the possibility of having the element full ON in the event of an SSR failure. It would be unlikely that both would fail at the same time, so many people are recommending using one SSR for each leg.
 
On second thought, would it be better to go with a single SSR and put at 30A switch in between the PID and the SSR? That way I know for certain that the power is completely shut off to the element.
 
By using 2 SSR's or even a Dual SSR you can switch both hot legs at the same time, ensuring that when you turn off the PID your element has no electricity running through it. I'd also put a 30A DPST switch in between the element and both hot legs so you can kill the power to the element whenever you want and keep your PID running to monitor temperatures. Just my $.02.
 
By using 2 SSR's or even a Dual SSR you can switch both hot legs at the same time, ensuring that when you turn off the PID your element has no electricity running through it. I'd also put a 30A DPST switch in between the element and both hot legs so you can kill the power to the element whenever you want and keep your PID running to monitor temperatures. Just my $.02.

Sounds like a plan. Thanks for the input.
 
Just thought of one more thing. Since I can buy a spa panel with a 50A GFCI breaker from Home Depot cheaper than a single 30A GFCI breaker, I was planning on feeding the spa panel from a 30A non-GFCI breaker using 10 guage wire from my main panel. If I understand correctly, the 30A breaker in the main panel would offer protection for overcurrent, while the 50A breaker in the spa panel would offer GFCI protection. Just want to make sure there is acceptable.
 
Yep, that'll work!

OR you could pick up a GFCI cord, probably more expensive but it makes your rig somewhat portable.
 
By using 2 SSR's or even a Dual SSR you can switch both hot legs at the same time, ensuring that when you turn off the PID your element has no electricity running through it. I'd also put a 30A DPST switch in between the element and both hot legs so you can kill the power to the element whenever you want and keep your PID running to monitor temperatures. Just my $.02.

This is a good idea. I didn't go this route and now I'm thinking I might change it. It just seems like it'd be nice to switch the element off without having to unplug from my control panel.
 
On a separate note, does anyone have any recommendations for a thermocouple or RTD to use for this application? I've been scoping out auberins.com, but haven't settled on anything yet. Since I'm doing BIAB, I'm obviously going to be using this to control my mash temps so am looking for something that can give me a pretty accurate reading.
 
Just thought of one more thing. Since I can buy a spa panel with a 50A GFCI breaker from Home Depot cheaper than a single 30A GFCI breaker, I was planning on feeding the spa panel from a 30A non-GFCI breaker using 10 guage wire from my main panel. If I understand correctly, the 30A breaker in the main panel would offer protection for overcurrent, while the 50A breaker in the spa panel would offer GFCI protection. Just want to make sure there is acceptable.

That's what I'm doing as well. In this instance basically all the 50A GFCI breaker will be doing (other than protecting you from a ground fault) is protecting the wire so make sure the wire from the 50A GFCI to the element is at least #8.
 
My plan is to use a Dual SSR and a DPST switch. I'm slowly gathering parts for my build.
 
On a separate note, does anyone have any recommendations for a thermocouple or RTD to use for this application? I've been scoping out auberins.com, but haven't settled on anything yet. Since I'm doing BIAB, I'm obviously going to be using this to control my mash temps so am looking for something that can give me a pretty accurate reading.

Go RTD. They're more accurate and TC wires are brittle and may break over time with normal use movement.
 
That's what I'm doing as well. In this instance basically all the 50A GFCI breaker will be doing (other than protecting you from a ground fault) is protecting the wire so make sure the wire from the 50A GFCI to the element is at least #8.

Shouldn't a 10 guage wire to the element be sufficient in this case since the max current on this circuit is only 30A.
 
Shouldn't a 10 guage wire to the element be sufficient in this case since the max current on this circuit is only 30A.

The concern is that if you have a short or other problem you'll be sending a 30A+ load across that wire until the 30A GFCI trips. In the real world it really shouldn't be an issue as the GFCI should open the circuit before any damage occurs but you could theoretically burn up your wiring.
 
The concern is that if you have a short or other problem you'll be sending a 30A+ load across that wire until the 30A GFCI trips. In the real world it really shouldn't be an issue as the GFCI should open the circuit before any damage occurs but you could theoretically burn up your wiring.

So should the wire from the main panel 30A breaker to the spa-panel 50A GFCI breaker be 8 guage as well?
 
Sorry if these questions are trivial, I thought that I had all of the wire sizes figured out but from the last couple of comments, now I'm not sure. Just trying to make sure I get this all right. So, 6 gauge from the main panel to the spa panel. Would you also recommend the same from the spa panel to the control panel? Then what size should I wire everything throughout the control panel? Just thinking that working with anything over 10 gauge in the control panel may be tough.
 
Sorry if these questions are trivial, I thought that I had all of the wire sizes figured out but from the last couple of comments, now I'm not sure. Just trying to make sure I get this all right. So, 6 gauge from the main panel to the spa panel. Would you also recommend the same from the spa panel to the control panel? Then what size should I wire everything throughout the control panel? Just thinking that working with anything over 10 gauge in the control panel may be tough.

I'm plainly amazed with the answers you are getting. I believe your basic plan is sound. You have a 30A breaker in the mains panel. Wiring goes according to that.
 
Sorry if these questions are trivial, I thought that I had all of the wire sizes figured out but from the last couple of comments, now I'm not sure. Just trying to make sure I get this all right. So, 6 gauge from the main panel to the spa panel. Would you also recommend the same from the spa panel to the control panel? Then what size should I wire everything throughout the control panel? Just thinking that working with anything over 10 gauge in the control panel may be tough.

Wait, I'm getting confused. You should be able to go 10gu all the way. The way I understand it is you are going 30A Breaker in main panel -> 50A GFCI Breaker in Spa Panel -> Control Panel. Correct? If that's the case then strike what I said before. If you've got a 30A breaker protecting everything then you can use 10gu with no issues.
 
Wait, I'm getting confused. You should be able to go 10gu all the way. The way I understand it is you are going 30A Breaker in main panel -> 50A GFCI Breaker in Spa Panel -> Control Panel. Correct? If that's the case then strike what I said before. If you've got a 30A breaker protecting everything then you can use 10gu with no issues.

That is correct. Thanks!
 
Yep, that'll work!

OR you could pick up a GFCI cord, probably more expensive but it makes your rig somewhat portable.

Thanks for mentioning this. From what I was planning to do with my setup, it looks like doing an inline GFCI cord may actually save me some $$$. That brings up another question. I'm now thinking about installing a dryer outlet next to my panel and then plugging in the GFCI cord and running that to my control panel. I'd like to mount my control panel on the wall in the garage and then run a 25' 10/3 cable to my 5500w heating element. With the GFI cord being 17' and the cord running to the element being 25', that brings the total run to 42'. Will 10 gauge wire be sufficient for this?
 

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