I don't want watery beer

I am about to embark on the beginning phases of my next batch of beer. This will make a total of 5 under my belt.

I am a guiness drinker. All four of my previous batches have been successfull stouts.

Guiness is so thick and creamy. My beer is just watered down in my eyes.

All batches have been from kits. The kits that provide the LME, dark DME and some specialty grains to steep. My inexpereinced gut is telling me that I'll never duplicate my guiness love this way.

Now-now just because I have only brew four batches doesn't mean that you should respond with me the pep talk about the many wonderful tasting beers that have been accomplished using extracts or DME in particular.

Yet the All Grain option is completely over my head at the moment and probably any future moments to come.

Is this mini mash option the next phase for me? Will it get me closer to my goal....is my goal even possible? Should I just buy a guiness keggerator and brew with a different mindset? Again....I am looking for a thick and creamy beer like guiness draft. Not this waterey stout I seem to end up with. Again it tastes fine.

PM isn't much different from AG

But, the shortest answer: Malto-Dextrine powder. It's the extract equivalent of cara-pils. It'll improve head retention, and give you a fuller, smoother mouthfeel.

For the best creamy stout, though, you'll need to PM or AG with some flaked barley. That's the key.

Mini mash will add some control over degree of fermentability but, until you go all grain you'll never have total control.

If you want a heavier body in your extract batches try looking at Laaglander extracts, IIRC, they are around 60-70% fermentable. Or try playing with some maltodextrin which will boost your body and is not fermentable.

also keep in mind that the nitrogen injection used in Guinness cans and bottles also lends a special kind of mouthfeel to the beer that you just won't get with straight CO2.

in fact, the Nitrogen actually produces a very low carbonation. too much fizz might cause you to perceive your Guinness clone as 'not even close' when in reality it is almost perfect.

I'd say the nitro line will bring you closer to your goal than going AG or PM. If you keg your beer I'd get the nitrogen tank in there for that creamy goodness.

Some of this jargon is over my head, so might I ask...
Going AG or PM?
Fermentability...the ability to ferment (I understand this) I thought all sugars are theoretically consumed by the yeast during fermentation. Are you speaking of inert ingredients?
I am going to continue using extracts and experiment more with adjuncts and what not until I learn more.

AG = all grain (no malt extracts)
PM = partial mash (more malt than steeping grain, but less than all grain)

Malto-Dextrine powder is less/not fermentable cause yeast can't ferment all sugars. If you mash your grain at higher temps (or the company who made your malt extract did), which is above 150 degrees, then the result is a less fermentable wort. This gives you more body to your beer (less dryness). The extracts that GilaMinumBeer suggested are mashed in this way.

In my opinion, I would use the Laaglander light malt extract, and seep some flaked barely with your grains. I dont know if you are seeping flaked barely or not.

blaqball said:

Is this mini mash option the next phase for me? Will it get me closer to my goal....is my goal even possible? Should I just buy a guiness keggerator and brew with a different mindset? Again....I am looking for a thick and creamy beer like guiness draft. Not this waterey stout I seem to end up with. Again it tastes fine.

Click to expand...

Yes this will help. When mashing you have the ability to "control" (or direct) the the thickness or mouthfeel a bit more. Mashing at a higher temp would give you a thicker feel to it.
Might be be less noticable with mini mashing, (maybe not) but it would most definatly help.

malkore said:

also keep in mind that the nitrogen injection used in Guinness cans and bottles also lends a special kind of mouthfeel to the beer that you just won't get with straight CO2.

in fact, the Nitrogen actually produces a very low carbonation. too much fizz might cause you to perceive your Guinness clone as 'not even close' when in reality it is almost perfect.

Click to expand...

doubleb said:

I'd say the nitro line will bring you closer to your goal than going AG or PM. If you keg your beer I'd get the nitrogen tank in there for that creamy goodness.

Click to expand...

Blaqball, I just wanted to emphasize these two posts. I would wager that this accounts for close to 100% of what you feel is missing from your stout.

Judging by the fact that you have done 5 batches and they were all stouts I would say that kegging and dispensing with nitrogen or "beer gas" are pretty much required to get that creamy mouthfeel.

By all means try some maltodextrine in your next batch and try steeping some flaked barley but once you start injecting some nitrogen into the beer you will see what you needed all along.

I've had ESBs dispensed through a nitrogen tap that, with my eyes closed, could have passed for a stout.

The idea that guinness is thick and creamy is purely a result of the beergas serving. If you don't believe me, drop a hydrometer in your next pint. It has a very low FG, which is the reason it always takes the top in a half-and-half type drink. Without the nitrogen/faucet or widget, guinness would be rather thin and watery, which I know can be tough to hear for a guinness drinker.