Legal Age to Brew?

Very random thought, but I was browsing my LHBS the other day, and just realized that everything for sale to brew a beer is legal for purchase by a minor. Is there something legally wrong with a LHBS selling equipment and ingredients to a minor?

This is a really pointless discussion, I just found it kind of interesting.

Wish I had thought of this 10 years ago!

Interesing topic, I stopped in one homebrew shop in southern Maine one time where before I even bought anything the shopkeep insisted that I must be 21 to buy anything from him. On the other hand, my HBS up here has never IDed me once (I'm just 21.) Personally I cant see how selling/purchasing of ingredients to brew beer would be illegal, since there is no alcohol in any of it.

Of course as soon as you add that yeast you would be in unlawful posession of alcohol.

I think legally there is nothing to prohibit the sales of the constituents to minors so it becomes a policy of the retailer to choose whether or not he/she sells the means to the end product to a minor.

Yep, just like spores to magic mushrooms are legal, it is the end product that is regulated.

As long as no alcohol is involved, no problem. Once the fermentation starts though ...

As far as I know, unless it actually contains alcohol, there is no law keeping a minor from purchasing brewing supplies or ingredients. I keep telling my kids this before my birthday, Father's Day, etc., but they keep "forgetting".

I got a cheapo 2gal brewing kit with ingredients for a BMC clone back when I was 17 or 18...

Beer was HORRIBLE though. Turned me off from homebrewing for 10 years or so.

This is the story behind the Ska Brewing Company, which I think is based in MD. THe two founders started home brewing because they were under. I found that amusing.

FrostyBeverage said:

This is the story behind the Ska Brewing Company, which I think is based in MD. THe two founders started home brewing because they were under. I found that amusing.

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That's awesome.

To be honest, it wasn't until I was 21 or 22 that I realized how good beer could be. I didn't even know anything other than Bud Light, Budweiser, Coors Light, etc. This was total crap to me and I stayed away from Beer.

Once my friend started drinking New Castle, I was intrigued by the color. After tasting, I realized that there is much more to beer than that.

So, I probably wouldn't have been interested in this at that age.

Never been questioned, I think that most shop owners realize that if someone is going through the trouble to brew quality beer, they are also drinking it in a responsible manner, and therefore feel no reason to stop them. If I just drank to get hammered, I would not be going through the trouble to brew it form scratch. There are far cheaper and easier ways for minors to get alcohol.

FrostyBeverage said:

This is the story behind the Ska Brewing Company, which I think is based in MD. THe two founders started home brewing because they were under. I found that amusing.

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its based in durango colorado they are really a good bunch of guys too.

Haputanlas said:

That's awesome.

To be honest, it wasn't until I was 21 or 22 that I realized how good beer could be. I didn't even know anything other than Bud Light, Budweiser, Coors Light, etc. This was total crap to me and I stayed away from Beer.

Once my friend started drinking New Castle, I was intrigued by the color. After tasting, I realized that there is much more to beer than that.

So, I probably wouldn't have been interested in this at that age.

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This is my Exact story I even when as far to say beer is gross and only needs to be drank to get drunk. Then I stumbled into gardening cooking and then brewing, many batches later moving through extract to all grain, slanting yeast and even now trying my hand at malting. I much a fan now CHEERS FELLOWS

I'm sure if someone came in that looked remarkably under 21 and was asking about brewing hooch, then they would ID.

I started brewing when I was 19. Since we were underage, it was hard enough to get beer, let alone good craft beer. Me and two friends sampled all the craft beer we could get our hands on and decided homebrewing would be easier. My buddy bought a True Brew kit off the internet along with some books. We brewed 2 extract kits I think, then quickly built a Zapap mash tun bucket from Papazian's book. The local brewery (Thomas Creek) also sold brewing supplies, grain and hops. We started getting our grain from them, and they never questioned us. They even offered us a sampling of some of their beer, which we awkwardly declined since we though they might card us. I was lurking on HBT for 2 years and joined shortly after I turned 21. Thanks to you guys, Thomas Creek brewery and whatever website my friend bought the equipment from, I'd never be at this level at 23 (24 in 2 weeks) years old.

I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before homebrew equipment/ingredients become age-regulated.

I'm unaware of any jurisdiction that already does this, but I can certainly see why HBS would want to card people to avoid the possible liability that a minor homebrewed, got drunk on it, died/seriously injured themselves/killed or injured somebody else, and gets a nice lawsuit and/or criminal prosecution. Would a jury distinguish between selling a 12 pack of coors to a minor and selling a minor the tools to make an unlimited supply of beer? Maybe, maybe not.

Just need a credit card to buy brewing stuff online... you can get one of those by yourself at 18.

I doubt there are explicit laws that say it is illegal to sell homebrewing equipment to anyone under 21 or even under 18 for that matter. Add the fact that all of the homebrewing equipment I've used can be used for non-homebrewing purposes.

However, I could see a homebrew shop owner being accused of some negligence law or something if some kid came into the shop and told him he was under 18 and was planning on brewing and drinking the beer and still sold equipment to the kid.

I guess it could be argued that any minor willing to drop ~$90 on a kit, and an extra $30 per recipe on beer, plus at least a month turnaround for each batch, they aren't in it for the unlimited supply of cheap beer. While that was an initial draw for us it wasn't a cheap or easy hobby.

I left home at 17 and moved in with a buddy (of age) that appreciated better beer, even if it was the simpler end of craft brews (ie new belgium, newcastle, etc). For the next year and a half, I drank nothing but micro brews, and we made a hobby of trying as many different varieties as I could.

At some point, I decided I would try to make my own. I borrowed some equipment from yet another friend and started a batch the week of my 18th birthday. That first year I brewed maybe 6 or 7 extract brews, while 19 I did maybe 15 brews over the year. 20 I did roughly 20 batches, and it's only gotten out of control since then. This year I've already done 12 batches. (That's 60 gallons)

It's paid off though. Now that I'm 23, I just started entering contests, and I have yet to not win a medal. Lowest score of a 27, highest of a 44. Don't think I could have done that without 5 years of experience.

Several months ago the question popped into my head about underage brewing while I was in my LHBS. I asked the owner if he ever carded people. He stated that there was no law requiring him to card. However if someone came in looking really young he would discourage him from it until later.

My LHBS will sell anything to anyone, except the yeast, which they will card you for.

I'm jealous... I didn't get into homebrewing until I was in my late 30s. I had a really bad craft beer in my early 20s so I decided that they all sucked. So for most of my life I was a BMC drinker. Then after watching some documentary, I heard about this thing called "wheat beer" (yes that is how closed my eyes were). So I tried a Blue Moon and liked it. From there it snow balled and I ended up trying different beers. The funny thing is that now I can't stand most of the BMC's I used to drink. Ohwell, wasted 20 years of my life drinking low quality beer.

klyph said:

My LHBS will sell anything to anyone, except the yeast, which they will card you for.

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Sounds reasonable, but they can just get baker's yeast at the grocery store or try to catch some wild yeasts. They might not give you the right flavor profile, but they will produce ethanol.

I wonder what the abv of commercial liquid yeast is!

Just because there is no law that states minors can't buy the supplies does not mean that the store has to sell to them.

LVBen said:

Sounds reasonable, but they can just get baker's yeast at the grocery store or try to catch some wild yeasts. They might not give you the right flavor profile, but they will produce ethanol.

I wonder what the abv of commercial liquid yeast is!

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So, commercial liquid yeast has alcohol in it?

Also, I'm pretty sure it's still legal to buy yeast as a minor. I can remember being able to buy pure vanilla (Which had a lot of alcohol in it).

It's only considered alcohol once the yeast is pitched. Anyone of any age can purchase the ingredients for and make wort. I dont think it's illegal to purchase yeast underage, just cant add it to the wort.

I'm in the same boat as an earlier poster, some buddies and I got a Mr. Beer kit at the ripe old age of 15. We put it all together and "brewed" our batch out in the shed in my parents backyard so we wouldn't get caught. The "beer" ended up tasting like satan's anus and completely turned me off of the idea of trying to make beer again. Atleast until my lil bro (who got unlimited acces to a pilot brewery built by Coors for his school's homebrew club) got me back into it 6 years ago.

To be honest I really dont think most underage kids would have the patience or location to home brew beer. Looking back I would much rather just have spent my money on a dirt cheap 30 pack of beer than equipment and supplies.

Haputanlas said:

I can remember being able to buy pure vanilla (Which had a lot of alcohol in it).

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The hobos used to buy 40's of King Cobra and the cheap fake vanilla from my brother when he worked at a grocery store. I never really got it since the fake vanilla is kind of expensive. I guess its still 30%, and you need something to make King Cobra taste better!

Actually, in many states (including mine), children can legally drink at home when supervised. So, I would guess that homebrewing would also be allowed (at least in those states).

Now, I would not recommend this practice, ever.

here is the link to Ska Brewing... kinda neat that they push "open source craft brewing"

http://www.skabrewing.com/main.html


(also funny that with their story their state mandates a 21+ click through to access the site....)

LVBen said:

Sounds reasonable, but they can just get baker's yeast at the grocery store or try to catch some wild yeasts. They might not give you the right flavor profile, but they will produce ethanol.

I wonder what the abv of commercial liquid yeast is!

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Just the the hell of it I bought sugar, Kool-Aid, and baking yeast and brewed it up just to see if the hooch would be drinkable. The answer was a big "NO." my wife banned me from all future experiments along those lines.

Beernik said:

Just the the hell of it I bought sugar, Kool-Aid, and baking yeast and brewed it up just to see if the hooch would be drinkable. The answer was a big "NO." my wife banned me from all future experiments along those lines.

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replace the koolaid with applejuice

However, I could see a homebrew shop owner being accused of some negligence law or something if some kid came into the shop and told him he was under 18 and was planning on brewing and drinking the beer and still sold equipment to the kid.

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Just an FYI:

We are a community of people that helps each other out. There is some implied trust in that relationship. If you ask a question, you have trust that we are all answering with your best intentions in mind.

If someone is underage and asks for help they are knowingly taking advantage of that trust. They are placing the community at risk. Brewer's code: Don't be a dick.

We don't allow you to join this site if you are not of legal age in the country which you reside. It doesn't necessarily reflect our personal views on drinking but that is a battle that should be fought elsewhere. We don't really need to be in the crosshairs of some neo-prohibitionist nanny group.

Rdwhahb&dbad!

ReverseApacheMaster said:

I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before homebrew equipment/ingredients become age-regulated.

I'm unaware of any jurisdiction that already does this, but I can certainly see why HBS would want to card people to avoid the possible liability that a minor homebrewed, got drunk on it, died/seriously injured themselves/killed or injured somebody else, and gets a nice lawsuit and/or criminal prosecution. Would a jury distinguish between selling a 12 pack of coors to a minor and selling a minor the tools to make an unlimited supply of beer? Maybe, maybe not.

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The fact that anyone would think this is a good idea is what is wrong with this country. Not bashing you, but I can already see some politician looking for something the media can latch onto and trying to regulate the purchase of plastic buckets and grain. I actually hope it happens because I will do my best to make sure that politician looks like a complete ass.

I am pretty sure that this will not happen. Homebrewing has been around for a very long time and is no threat. It would also be way too hard to regulate all of these ingredients.

I don't remember anyone I went to high school with who actually did this and accomplished anything as well. Obviously it happens, but I haven't heard many horror stories behind it.

kidsmakeyoucrazy said:

....I will do my best to make sure that politician looks like a complete ass.

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Chances are, if he's a politician, you won't have to work hard to make him look like an ass... he'll do a fine job all by himself.

kidsmakeyoucrazy said:

The fact that anyone would think this is a good idea is what is wrong with this country. Not bashing you, but I can already see some politician looking for something the media can latch onto and trying to regulate the purchase of plastic buckets and grain. I actually hope it happens because I will do my best to make sure that politician looks like a complete ass.

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Not saying I want it to happen, just pointing out an unfortunate possibility. One I do not want to see happen...

It would actually be pretty easy to regulate at the storefront level. HBS would have to card people to buy anything related to beermaking or any items that they knew the customer would use to make beer. They would regulate it pretty much the same as beer sales at a grocery store.

It only takes a few ridiculous news stories showing 19 year olds getting drunk on homebrew and getting into an accident or confuse homebrewing with distilling and all the panicked parent groups would be writing their representatives asking for regulation.

Ridiculous, of course, but we're also a nation that banned alcohol over moral issues...

It really only takes an over zealous Alcohol Control Board, for which there would be little recourse.

Even if you could require HBSs to card, each of the ingredients can be legally purchased anywhere else.

ReverseApacheMaster said:

Not saying I want it to happen, just pointing out an unfortunate possibility. One I do not want to see happen...

It would actually be pretty easy to regulate at the storefront level. HBS would have to card people to buy anything related to beermaking or any items that they knew the customer would use to make beer. They would regulate it pretty much the same as beer sales at a grocery store.

It only takes a few ridiculous news stories showing 19 year olds getting drunk on homebrew and getting into an accident or confuse homebrewing with distilling and all the panicked parent groups would be writing their representatives asking for regulation.

Ridiculous, of course, but we're also a nation that banned alcohol over moral issues...

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We're also in a nation that intentionally poisoned and killed 10,000+ people during prohibition...where do you think "denatured" alcohol came from? When the funky taste wasn't enough to stop folks from drinking it the govt ordered industrial alcohol manufacturers to poison their hooch....thanks!

Never trust your government. They are there to serve you...never forget it, and never let them forget it.

But today this is all fantasy. They might be able to pull off such nonsense in say NYC, but here NC, those same items are what Joe farmer would send his kid to the store to get or place an order for that his kid would accept on any given day. Now I'll grant you that the hops and special malts aren't ordinary fare, but it's not like you need those to make alcohol. Do you think "Dale" at the feed store is going to tell some farmers boy that he can't buy grains or buckets?

I'd really love for some idiot politician to try this...I really would.. I'm in the mood for an argument

I'm in the mood for an argument

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OK, but not here.

Debate forum or elsewhere, please.

olllllo said:

OK, but not here.

Debate forum or elsewhere, please.

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No worries unless we have idiot politicians waiting to pounce on my invitiation In that case we'll move it elsewhere.