Help w/Quest for Clear Beer

My barleywine is incredibly murky... like swamp water murky.

It was clear like glass in the carboy and now looks terrible. A lot of my beers are turning out that way too. Some will clear fine, but about 2/3 just stay forever cloudy. I could use some advice if you have it on what’s my problem.

I fly sparge my all grain mash
Boil for 60 (I use hop bags to keep them out of the fermenter.)
Add Whirlfloc at 5 to 10 minutes
Immersion chiller cools my 10 gallon batch in about 20-30 mins. (It looks like a good cold break)
Ferment for a week to ten days.
Use two packs of gelatin per five gallons, wait two days.
Keg and chill to 35-40 degrees.
The first pint is murky, but so is the third, fifth, twentieth.

It doesn’t clear until the last two pints, then when the keg kicks it dumps a half glass of trub and blows foam.

Is my spear sticking too far down into the keg? Thoughts?

Leave them in the primary for 3-4weeks.

Depending on which yeast you use you may not be giving it enough time to floc out. How long does it take from pitching yeast to killing the keg? You may need to wait longer before racking like above.

If you pour a pint and let it sit and warm up - does it clear as it warms?

For "normal" beers primary for longer as mentioned above and forget about the gelatin. If you still have problems after that try putting the next batch secondary for a while before you keg it. I have a feeling that all that gelatin might be part of your problem.

As for the barleywine, how long did you age it? Generally speaking barleywines require a quite lengthy aging process to get where they need to be. I'd say you should have left that one in secondary for 2-3 months minimum, many I've tasted are aged for close to a year or more.

You'll also want to step up to a 90 minute boil for any beer with pilsner in the bill. And, of course, any beer with wheat in the bill will be cloudy regardless.

I think some people get too hung up on clarity of their beers. As long as your beer tastes good I wouldn't worry about it too much and if you ever consider filtering just remember that will also filter flavor in most cases.

Either way I think your beer will benefit from longer primaries so that would be a good starting point IMHO.

manoaction said:

Use two packs of gelatin per five gallons, wait two days.

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I think its like 4 times more gelatin than required.

Leave them in the primary for 3-4weeks.

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It's a barleywine, it was in the primary for six weeks, in the secondary for three months, and been in the keg for three weeks.

And, of course, any beer with wheat in the bill will be cloudy regardless.

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There is no wheat in my beer.

If you pour a pint and let it sit and warm up - does it clear as it warms?

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No, warming it back up doesn't help.

I think its like 4 times more gelatin than required.

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and

I have a feeling that all that gelatin might be part of your problem.

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So a little gelatin clears and a lot makes it cloudy? I hadn't thought of that.

I think some people get too hung up on clarity of their beers.

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I'm pursing perfection, there is no part of beer that I can get too hung up on. Naturally, I may not achieve it, but that's why it's a pursuit.

Any other ideas? When dealing with corny kegs, does the position of the spear ever come into play? Mine are dead center pretty much touching the bottom.

it should be clear by the time it is in the keg based on how long you let it sit in the fermenter. ( maybe chill haze?) i'm thinking that since you say the last couple pints come out clear that maybe the beer needs to spend more time in the keg (cold). i have noticed some of my beers (that are awsome at three weeks in the keg) do get clearer with a little more time.

I was going to say drop the gelatin completely but someone beat me too it. Also maybe add the whirlfloc a little sooner and crush it, dont add it in tablet form. My diptube goes all the way to the bottom of my kegs and they clear well enough (still some chill haze) after the first 2 pints or so.

I'd say at this point all signs point to the gelatin. Even if cloudy at first, almost all my beers clear up real nice after a week or sooner in the keg (cold). I also doubt that the dip tube plays a factor.

Sorry if I insulted you btw, in the OP you said you fermented for 7 to 10 days which led me to believe you had done so with the barleywine and then kegged it.

+1 for the whirlfloc. I use one tablet at flameout.

Never used gelatin and my ales are very clear.

I know what you mean about the spear but I think you're just going to miss out on some beer by shortening it. For me I get some sediment when I first tap or if I have to move my kegerator for any reason. Otherwise it's pretty clear.

I don't filter but I do use a (sanitized) paint bucket strainer when I rack from fermenter to keg. Usually it just keeps about a teaspoon of trub from going in when I'm right at the end of racking.

headbanger said:

I'd say at this point all signs point to the gelatin. Even if cloudy at first, almost all my beers clear up real nice after a week or sooner in the keg (cold). I also doubt that the dip tube plays a factor.

Sorry if I insulted you btw, in the OP you said you fermented for 7 to 10 days which led me to believe you had done so with the barleywine and then kegged it.

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So you're saying too much gelatin? Because like I said I add a couple packets usually.

I'm thinking maybe cold crash before kegging sounds like a key. The junk is definitely floating to the bottom of the keg, but then it's just sitting there getting a little bit in each pint.

As for the confusion about the ferment time, I meant that I usually do a week or two, but that the barleywine was long aged and still cloudy so I was ruling out the aging.

I'm brewing again tomorrow night, I'm going to make sure I cold crash the fermenters before kegging this time and see.

General techniques for normal ales I have learned over time:
1) Use a bag during boil for all ingredients that may cause sediment (hops, orange peels, coriander etc)

2) Use 1 tsp of Irish moss last 10 min of boil

3) When pouring into primary fermenter, use funnel with strainer.

4) Let fermenter sit undisturbed for a few hours prior to siphoning. When siphoning, never touch yeast cake, and don't be greedy, stop siphoning when beer starts running cloudy.

5) Use secondary fermenter (optional)

6) Cold crash for 48 hours, and let sit for a few more hours before racking to keg (if you had to move your vessel out of a fridge or something).

7) When racking to keg, heat about 2 cups of water on medium heat with 1 tablespoon of gelatin finnings for 4-5 min and add to keg. (DO NOT BOIL)

8 ) Set and forget carb, none of that shake Carbing in keg.

Your first two glasses should have some cold haze, but you should get crystal clear beer after that. Remember, patience is a virtue when home brewing. Cheers!

i use whirlfloc, dump everything into the fermenter, no secondary, no gelatin, cold crash, usually suck a bit of yeast or other sediment into the bottling bucket and i always have crystal clear beer even though that's not really an aim of mine. a nice boil, a good chill and whirlfloc = the holy trinity of clear beer.

eastoak said:

i use whirlfloc, dump everything into the fermenter, no secondary, no gelatin, cold crash, usually suck a bit of yeast or other sediment into the bottling bucket and i always have crystal clear beer even though that's not really an aim of mine. a nice boil, a good chill and whirlfloc = the holy trinity of clear beer.

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If you have the facilities, cold crashing before kegging is definitely the big ticket to pouring brilliant beer. When I have a keg kick there's barely a couple of tablespoons of yeasty trub on the bottom - not even enough to reach the dip tube.

Imo, Whirlfloc or Irish Moss are pretty much spent in primary...

Cheers!

I've always lucked out with Irish Moss. A few people from my homebrew club and I have been experimenting with ways to maximize IM. One member found that crushing it smaller gave it more surface area to do its magic. I've been adding a touch of sparge water to my Irish Moss when I sparge. This way the stuff gets hydrated in the hot water and has had plenty of time to start breaking down. Since then my beers have been very clear.

I've used gelatin many times, especially when I've forgotten to add whirlfloc/irish moss during the boil. I've pretty much just followed the directions on this thread and siphoned my beer into the secondary over it. Crystal clear is definitely the result.

Wetpaperbag said:

I've always lucked out with Irish Moss. A few people from my homebrew club and I have been experimenting with ways to maximize IM. One member found that crushing it smaller gave it more surface area to do its magic. I've been adding a touch of sparge water to my Irish Moss when I sparge. This way the stuff gets hydrated in the hot water and has had plenty of time to start breaking down. Since then my beers have been very clear.

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A good point, not sure what everybody else is doing but I always rehydrate my moss with a bit of warm tap water at the same time I start the boil. It's usually good and mushy by the time I dump it in at the 10 minute mark.

my steps to crystal clear beer is very simple.. i ALWAYS ferment for at least 4 weeks no matter what the beer, and just use a "pinch" of irish moss in the last 10 or so of boil.. don't know how far that pinch goes, but since i've always done it, and it turned out great i'll never change that.. just my 2c

This is kind of a new, different idea. i haven't tried it yet but i did order myself the small package of them to try it out and see how they work. ill post more when they come and i bottle but check it out.

Sed-Ex Brewing, Home brewing, Home brew supplies

it will clear and carbonate your beer. it might detract from that fine aging flavor and im not too sure if this will be the best idea for a barely wine but maybe you could use them after its bottle and open one and let it sit for an hour or so until the yeast is collected. check this new idea out though, i think it might the solution you have been searching for finally

Three batches later, I've noticed a big improvement by cold crashing before kegging. If I cold crash in the keg, the sediment is too deep on the bottom to ever clear up.

Just my thoughts...

I never use gelatin. I do use a little polyclar in the secondary to prevent chill haze. Maybe a little Irish moss at the end of boil to help with floculation if I am worried about cloudiness for some reason.

I do like a clear beer, so I leave in primary until fermentation is complete. Then into secondary until it has cleared. And I prefer to let it set without moving in the keg for a week or two, maybe longer, to carbonate and settle further. The first glass may have some sediment, but clear aleing after that!

My Christmas/barleywine that went into keg two weeks ago will sit until just before Christmas to allow for more clarification.I try not to rush it.



Beer is good!