What Did He Do

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Reverend JC

2500 gallons year to date
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:mad: My brother cleaned up a few things during our last brew day and he was incharge of the CFC. Well, he must have run starsan in it and did not rinse with water. There is now a nice light green coating i can see on the inside of the copper when looking at the ends!!!!
Please tell me there is a solution i can run through it to clean that out. I dont want to have to pay for another 20ft of that crap.
 
BUMP




Sorry, i had to bump it. I am trying really hard not to drive over to my brothers house and have words.
 
It sounds like oxidation of the copper. Usually that type of oxidation takes a long time with exposure to the elements to occur. I suppose he could have sped it up by filling it with a liquid, but I'm not sure if star san would speed this process or not.

As for removing it. I did a preliminary search for removing copper green or removing copper patina. One site suggested silver polish, but that doesn't seem practical. It may not have any effect on the taste of the beer, but I don't know for sure. Hope this is a good starting point for you at least.

Found more info. for you:

Acid Cleaners

Acids help remove hard water deposits. Some acid cleaners help remove discoloration from aluminum, brass, bronze, and copper. Other acids remove iron rust stains. Acids are typically found in toilet bowl cleaners, rust removers, metal cleaners, and kitchen and bath cleaners that remove mineral products.

* White vinegar, a weak acid, is about 5 percent acetic acid. It may remove hard water deposits from glass, rust stains from sinks, and tarnish from brass and copper.
* Lemon juice, another weak acid, contains citric acid, which can be used in much the same way as vinegar.
* Oxalic acid is effective as a rust remover.
* Phosphoric acid is often found in cleaning products that remove hard water deposits.
* Hydrochloric and sulfuric acids are sometimes used in diluted concentrations in toilet bowl cleaners.

Rust stains present a special problem on plumbing fixtures. Commercial rust removers contain oxalic acid. If you purchase oxalic acid at full strength, dilute it with 10 parts water. Follow all precautions when using oxalic acid, as this is a highly toxic product. A commercial product like ZUD may be effective on rust stains because it contains oxalic acid. When surfaces have become rough or pitted from repeated scrubbings with an abrasive cleaner, ZUD or a similar product may be mixed with water to form a paste and left standing on the stain for several minutes, then rinsed off.

For fixtures that are not acid resistant, clean with trisodium phosphate to remove the rust. Cream of tartar, a mild acid, may be mixed with water to form a paste rust remover.

and

Green, blue-green stains (from copper or acid water)

* Soap suds and ammonia, then rinse
* or
* Mixture of half water and half ammonia; rinse well and flush pipes with water after using
 
I have no idea what chemicals to use but...

I would thread a length of string through the pipes (tie a bolt on or something heavy that fits) and then some cloth onto the end of the string, then attach some more string to the other end of the cloth. This way you can pull the cloth backwards and forwards to clean out the pipes.

Might work?

How about Brasso? ..do you get that in good ole US of A?
 
Well, i suppose i will try the vinegar/water solution through it and then some soap, them maybe some PBW and then a bit of boiling water. I hope it will not poison the beer and me some how.
 
I would just run more StarSan through it then rinse. It is a mild acid (just ask my countertops:( ) I wouldn't worry about it if it doesn't come off completely. I get a slight green on some of my copper tubes and after doing a brew and sanitizing, they're nice & shiny again.
 
Hey Reverand, use Phospharic acid in it's whole form. I work in a fab shop and we clean huge amounts of copper and SS. We just heat water to 180 deg and add a few table spoons of pure PA and it's new again. use your HLT for this concuaction and run it through your chiller slowly. I gaurentee this will work! Get it at welding shops in a 16 oz bottle! Good luck
 
Hopfan said:
I would just run more StarSan through it then rinse. It is a mild acid (just ask my countertops:( )

:off:

This little tidbit gave me a heads up. I probably wouldn't have realized that until of course I damaged the countertop.

Thanks man!

Ize
 
You can run some white vinegar into it and let it sit, or dilute phosphoric acid as the Gabe suggested. Flush and take a look. If the green is gone, you're okay, otherwise repeat until gone. Rinse well, etc. Take a look at John Palmer's on line "How to Brew", I think he has a good section on cleaning brewery metals. I suspect the green stuff is copper phosphate formed by oxidation by the phosphoric acid in Star San.

I would clean it out before I ran wort through it, because it may dissolve in hot wort, I don't think you want this, because copper salts are toxic. The other possibility is that the sugars in wort will reduce the copper salt back to copper metal. I think this is the reason we get that nice clean copper surface when wort meets copper.
 
Ize said:
:off:

This little tidbit gave me a heads up. I probably wouldn't have realized that until of course I damaged the countertop.

Thanks man!

Ize
At least someone is learning from my mistakes. I did it twice!! Keep forgetting that there's a little drip down the side of the bottle after I pour.
 
Lime Away, or anyother Lime Dissolver, are made for removing metal oxides. Available at every place where better soaps are sold!
 
Arent metal oxides inert? Isn't that the point of a metal oxide? That it's stripping away spare electrons and stuff?

Furthermore, isn't a chemically inert surface desirable in brewing? Don't we all prefer SS kettles to aluminum? Wouldn't we all use a wort chiller made of gold if it were economically justifiable?

I'm just asking why the patina should even be bothered at all...
 
Not sure if the paranoia was warrented or not, but a quick run of diluted vinegar and then some boiling water to sanitize and it was good to go. I just wont let him clean that thing anymore and there should be no more freak out on my part.
 
Toot,

The green coating Reverend JC was concerned about wasn't an oxide. Copper oxides are black or red, not green. Some copper salts are used as insecticides, so I'd rather not have them in my beer. Also, while an oxide may be inert, some are soluble in acidic solutions, so you could end up with dissolved metal ions in said acidic solution, and again I don't want them in my beer for health and taste reasons. Copper oxides aren't an issue for us because they aren't soluble in wort, but are reduced back to metallic copper by the wort sugars, as I recall.
 
Reverend JC: There is now a nice light green coating i can see on the inside of the copper when looking at the ends!!!!


why are you so worried about the inside of your chilller? :confused:

the inside shouldnt affect your beer...
 
AiredAle said:
Toot,

The green coating Reverend JC was concerned about wasn't an oxide. Copper oxides are black or red, not green. Some copper salts are used as insecticides, so I'd rather not have them in my beer. Also, while an oxide may be inert, some are soluble in acidic solutions, so you could end up with dissolved metal ions in said acidic solution, and again I don't want them in my beer for health and taste reasons. Copper oxides aren't an issue for us because they aren't soluble in wort, but are reduced back to metallic copper by the wort sugars, as I recall.

Yay for chemistry nerds! I have no idea what your words mean, but I think I used to... and I will think about it as I go to sleep tonight.

I'm more of a physics guy. :mug:



But it's all fun to think about....
 

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