$6.50 carboys at Walmart

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PAC762

PAC762

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I was strolling through walmart today and found 5 gallon water cooler type bottles for $6.50 each. They have a recycle code of "3", which I understand to be PVC. I did some google-fu and it looks like PVC does not leach chemicals unless you heat it or otherwise abuse it (It gets the same type of hysteria that nalgene bottles got recently). I found this website that suggests that PVC is a better oxygen barrier then even PET (better bottles): How to gain high permeability in food packaging?

ETA: Here's a recycling site that specifically says PVC bottles have lower oxygen permiability than HDPE (ale pails): http://www.kurrajongwaratah.org.au/site/files/ul/data_text30/100492.pdf

What do you guys think about using these for fermenters?
 
I'd avoid it. It was intended for water. Rating on the bottom does not imply food grade, it tells recyclers what pile to throw it in.
 
I'd love to hear from the experts on this forum about this. I want to make mead and cider and only have 2 glass and 2 PET carboys that I use. Using more than one of those hinders my beer making process.

:tank:
 
I'm finding some conflicting stuff online. I think we need to find a scientician to comment on this.

One thing I can say for sure is that the walmart bottles feel much more substantial than better bottles. I might try a cheap batch of cider to test one out.

As far as "food grade" goes, I would think that something designed for storing drinking water is "food grade".
 
PAC762 said:
I'm finding some conflicting stuff online. I think we need to find a scientician to comment on this.

One thing I can say for sure is that the walmart bottles feel much more substantial than better bottles. I might try a cheap batch of cider to test one out.

As far as "food grade" goes, I would think that something designed for storing drinking water is "food grade".
Click to expand...

Food grade is a lot different than 'water only' storage. The water in those bottles is typically very neutral, wort isnt.

Link to thread with lots of links to other threads on this topic. Read and make your own choice. My vote is no, I want my beer to taste good (if you ever smell the inside of one of those bottles it smells hardcore plasticy.
 
66e691e1ba6b431edb2c80381c72215c234b27b1


:D

I saw similar ones at the Wally world by my house... I think they were #2 codes though...
 
From a thread linked above I believe that the 3's I've seen at work will now mysteriously disappear...:D

:tank:
 
Are we looking for a scientician, scientist, or do we need a scientologist....
Tom says the water bottles are good to go, you can trust him:D

tom-cruises-new-film1.jpg
 
I am sure they are fine.* You can put beer in a 2 liter bottle if you want. I have seen some at Big Lots, but they had handles molded into them kind of like a milk jug. I was not sure how to clean in there.

*MadeWithChicken is not responsible for death as a result of cancer. He is also not responsible for bad batches of beer.
 
I used to be a plastic fabricator for industrial tanks and welding.

We had a customer that used to buy tanks from us, he owned his own beer making facility and he used PVC pipe and valves. With low density polyethylene tanks I believe.

Now there is food grade, but the term for plastic tanks is 'potable water' which means you can drink water from the tanks without any leeching from the plastic. Now, beer isn't water, and I doubt alcohol has anything to do change anything. (maybe that's where the scientist like tom cruise comes in)
 
Sissies!! Dont fear the plastic bottle!

I have a batch going in my 5 gallon water bottle (of apfelwein) Like I stated before - If I grow a third penis due to the fact that this bottle isnt considered 'food grade' or #7 or whatever else people are 'fearing', I will be sure to post pics.
-Me
 
I'm not a rocket surgeon, but I play one on TV. From a food safety perspective... if it has recycle symbol No. 1 (PETE) or No. 2 (HDPE), then it should be perfectly "safe" for storage of beer. Half (or more than half) of the all grain brewers on this forum use HDPE coolers as mash tuns and they haven't become mutants (yet), except for a few.:D Now, I don't know if there are differences within HDPEs and PETEs, but I would think a water bottle made from either would be perfectly safe for food storage, or in this case beer, despite it's slightly low pH.

From a beer quality perspective, the question is raised as to whether or not it is oxygen permeable enough with long term storage, to cause the beer to become oxidized. I would hesitate with HDPE for this because HDPE is more oxygen permeable than PETE, but since Better Bottles are PETE, I wouldn't hesitate there. However, with the relatively short-term storage of average home-brewed ales, HDPE might not have as much of an oxidizing effect on beer as suspected.
 
If these bottles are being sold at wal-mart they came from China. Can you really trust whats stamped on the bottom of the bottle or even what it's made of ? I like glass.
 
JoeMama said:
Sissies!! Dont fear the plastic bottle!

I have a batch going in my 5 gallon water bottle (of apfelwein) Like I stated before - If I grow a third penis due to the fact that this bottle isnt considered 'food grade' or #7 or whatever else people are 'fearing', I will be sure to post pics.
-Me
Click to expand...

What caused you to grow the second one?

:tank:
 
hammer one said:
If these bottles are being sold at wal-mart they came from China. Can you really trust whats stamped on the bottom of the bottle or even what it's made of ? I like glass.
Click to expand...

I highly doubt they come from China. The majority of the container would be air, China likes to cram as much product in their containers as possible, leaving little to no unutilized space.

I sell PVC for a living, and if it's or water bottles, it's food grade and would probably be OK, especially if it were NSF rated. If it is NSF rated, it will say so somewhere on the packaging. The main difference between food grade and non food grade PVC is the stabilizer we use. Tin stabilizer is used for non food grade products, whereas mostly calcium zinc stabilizer is used for food grade. You'll would smell the tin right away inside the bottle, there's no mistaking it. That smell wouldn't necessarily make you sick, but it will affect the flavor of your beer. I do not know what effect fermentation would have on the bottle, but I don't think it would be an issue unless you heated the bottle to 160F+. If anything, the bottle could become hazy which means there's a reaction between the plastic and the liquid within it.

Having said that, I wouldn't use PVC bottles...
 
That's a really good answer, I'm still looking for some #1 bottles, I saw some when I was down south visiting, but didn't want to drive huge jugs of water back from there. I'll find some around here sometime...

I did find 4 gallon bottles at menards, just slightly shorter than the normal 5 gal and were #1
 
mev said:
I highly doubt they come from China. The majority of the container would be air, China likes to cram as much product in their containers as possible, leaving little to no unutilized space.

I sell PVC for a living, and if it's or water bottles, it's food grade and would probably be OK, especially if it were NSF rated. If it is NSF rated, it will say so somewhere on the packaging. The main difference between food grade and non food grade PVC is the stabilizer we use. Tin stabilizer is used for non food grade products, whereas mostly calcium zinc stabilizer is used for food grade. You'll would smell the tin right away inside the bottle, there's no mistaking it. That smell wouldn't necessarily make you sick, but it will affect the flavor of your beer. I do not know what effect fermentation would have on the bottle, but I don't think it would be an issue unless you heated the bottle to 160F+. If anything, the bottle could become hazy which means there's a reaction between the plastic and the liquid within it.

Having said that, I wouldn't use PVC bottles...
Click to expand...

OK. I bought 1 of these. It's made in Mexico by this company: Plásticos Iris Agua

It has a screw-on cap. I immediately took a big whiff as soon as I first removed the cap and there is a slight smell which I can only describes as a hop-like smell, believe it or not. (This might have something to do with the fact that I'm drinking a DFH 60min IPA). I do not smell any unpleasant odors, but I cannot honestly say that I know what tin smells like in the first place.

If you go on the website, it is the "Handle model broad windows cast bottle" and it is made with "food degree PVC".

I'm going to start a batch of apfelwein this evening and will report back in a few months with the results.
 
FYI- I just tasted my batch of apfelwein from this carboy. It's the best batch I've made to date. Absolutely no weird flavors. YMMV.

I'll post again in 30 years and let you guys know if I've grown a tail or something. :D
 
If it's drinking water rated its food grade. My friends dad manages a major irrigation supply center in my area and put me at ease about all that stuff. I was building a counter pressure bottle filler and he explained that anything drinking water rated is food grade. In fact he said anything drinking water rated could be used to circulate your blood!

It's safe and it definately won't kill you :mug:
 
JoeMama said:
Sissies!! Dont fear the plastic bottle!

I have a batch going in my 5 gallon water bottle (of apfelwein) Like I stated before - If I grow a third penis due to the fact that this bottle isnt considered 'food grade' or #7 or whatever else people are 'fearing', I will be sure to post pics.
-Me
Click to expand...

devaspawn said:
What caused you to grow the second one?

:tank:
Click to expand...


ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you! I haven't laughed that hard in along time!
 
Trenchant said:
If it's drinking water rated its food grade. My friends dad manages a major irrigation supply center in my area and put me at ease about all that stuff. I was building a counter pressure bottle filler and he explained that anything drinking water rated is food grade. In fact he said anything drinking water rated could be used to circulate your blood!

It's safe and it definately won't kill you :mug:
Click to expand...

I would never trust a irrigation man with my blood I assure you being after just studying anticoagulation I highly doubt they are Medical Grade. Not to knock your friends dad. As for the bottles at wal-mart I have been tempted myself. However, I think I will stick with my better bottle they are proven and put my mind at ease when my brew is gurgling away. An objective test would be to make the same brew on the same day under the same condition on see if you could tell the difference. I smell a test... :D

In short get a better bottle and don't worry about it.. the price is difference is noticeable but what if your brew messes up because of a faulty primary??
 
I have been thinking of using buckets from lowes or walmart same bucket. THe company that makes them is called Encore Plastics. I called the company and spoke with a rep. who told me all of there 5 gallon buckets with a number 2 on the bottom are food grade. She also said they are made with a FDA approved resin which isn't stated anywhere on the bucket. Just thought I'd share that.
 
I do not know about the water bottles but I think I am going to get one to do Apfelwine or a SMASH. I use the "Homer Buckets" for bulk grain storage and so far so good
 
Honestly who cares ? what is the difference in price for a piece of equipment you will use for years ... maybe $15 ?

Why not just make the call for a better bottle, and leave the water cooler bottles for water ??

I knew a guy who used a water cooler bottle for a KILLER bong ...

WOW --hellooo Walmart !!
 

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