Oxygen bottle Vs Air pump

CornyKegs 728
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oldschool

oldschool

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Lately i've been buying those red O2 tanks for $6.50 to oxygenate my wort prior to pitching. I'm getting almost right at 10 gallons of beer out of one tank! At first we thought the valve on the tank was leaking but turns out it's not. They say on the side it only contains 1.50oz. What should I do? Just use an aquarium pump and filter, or keep getting raped on the oxygen?
 
I bet you're using up way to much O2 per batch.

How long are you oxygenating for?

How frothy is the top of the wort while you're using the O2?

B
 
Yeah the top is really foamy. Depends on the gravity, but somewhere between 1-5 minutes. I don't have any way to determine how much i'm using, I guess i really need a flow meter of some kind. I'll check out the link.
 
oldschool said:
Yeah the top is really foamy. Depends on the gravity, but somewhere between 1-5 minutes. I don't have any way to determine how much i'm using, I guess i really need a flow meter of some kind. I'll check out the link.
Click to expand...

You don't need a flow meter but you do need to get the zen feel down on your o2 stone.

If your not convinced theres enough oxygen in solution, instead of one long burst of o2 cosider two shorter durations well before fermentation peaks.
 
You may want to look into getting a tank from a gas supplier. It takes a tank and regulator but then o2 is cheap. 90L o2 tank cost 18 for me to fill and will do probably 200 batches. I mean a welding tank not medical. Both are filled from same source and 99.99 percent pure.
 
oldschool said:
Lately i've been buying those red O2 tanks for $6.50 to oxygenate my wort prior to pitching. I'm getting almost right at 10 gallons of beer out of one tank! At first we thought the valve on the tank was leaking but turns out it's not. They say on the side it only contains 1.50oz. What should I do? Just use an aquarium pump and filter, or keep getting raped on the oxygen?
Click to expand...
+1 on using too much, 30 seconds of pure 02 is plenty for 5 gal batch, 45 for higher gravity.
 
Your using way too much. I get something like 10-15 standard sized 5 gallon batches from one of those small red O2 bottles.

my method is to run the O2 thru the stone for 60 seconds. Seal the carboy and roll it on the floor for 60 seconds. works perfect and costs only very little.
 
shrades said:
I would like to start doing this myself. Do you need to buy a stainless stone or can I use a regular one for a fish tank?
Click to expand...

you really want a stainless stone or just go with no stone at all. The fish tank type stone will be way to hard to get clean properly and will run the risk of infections. In fact the stainless stones are also super hard to reliably clean and sanitize. Mine is attached to a plastic tube and can't be boiled.

I honestly don't think the stone is completely necessary. Just run the O2 thru a skinny tube into the wort for a minute then seal the carboy and shake the crap out of it. The shaking will dissolve the O2 into wort.
 
I am new to the O2 tanks and stones. But I think the idea is to out many small bubbles instead of large ones from not having a stone.

There's more surface area to 1,000 Tiny bubbles compared to 1 large bubble with no stone. I Think that was the idea
 
Conodor said:
I am new to the O2 tanks and stones. But I think the idea is to out many small bubbles instead of large ones from not having a stone.

There's more surface area to 1,000 Tiny bubbles compared to 1 large bubble with no stone. I Think that was the idea
Click to expand...

correct but I think that you can get more O2 to dissolve into the wort from adding some O2 bubbles then shaking it. With the emphasis on the shaking it
 
Scimmia said:
If you're running through a stone, don't bother. Those millions of tiny bubble have more surface area than you'll ever get shaking.
Click to expand...

Mine is just a theory. I have no proof that the shaking is more important and there are plenty of people who still feel the tiny bubbles from the stone are what is most important. In fact your gonna be hard pressed to find somebody else on this forum who agrees with me on this one. It doesn't make me wrong but it certainly makes me unreliable and unpopular.
 
Someone recomended I listen to the brewstrong session about oxygenation, I did so. Jamil says that the "main" purpose of the tiny bubbles is to mix the wort. It will cause the "un-oxygenated" wort on the bottle to travel to the top. He also said that most of the O2 dissolved will come from the head space of the fermenter being filled with oxygen. Obviously the best way is to inject the O2 in-line during the transfer-the longer the hose the better(same way some places will carb their finished beer). They said that too much oxygen can cause some hot alcohol production or encourage stale beer. I definately used too much on one of the batches last weekend, so i will see if i get some of the results they spoke of.
 
oldschool said:
Someone recomended I listen to the brewstrong session about oxygenation, I did so. Jamil says that the "main" purpose of the tiny bubbles is to mix the wort. It will cause the "un-oxygenated" wort on the bottle to travel to the top. He also said that most of the O2 dissolved will come from the head space of the fermenter being filled with oxygen. Obviously the best way is to inject the O2 in-line during the transfer-the longer the hose the better(same way some places will carb their finished beer). They said that too much oxygen can cause some hot alcohol production or encourage stale beer. I definately used too much on one of the batches last weekend, so i will see if i get some of the results they spoke of.
Click to expand...

I listened to the same thing. They were careful to point out that the tiny bubbles are NOT absorbed into the wort. And that the majority of the O2 disolved into the wort was coming from the layer on the surface.

Seams like shaking the carboy after you run some O2 in there would be very effective in dissolving the O2 that floated to the top into the wort. Don'tcha think? hmm maybe? hmm!
 
I just listened to that Brewstrong podcast and the claim that foaming during aeration will kill head retention and head forming proteins is a little dubious. So the giant amount of foaming when it's fermenting doesn't affect it? I know it's mostly yeast, but there is a hell of lot more agitation when the wort is fermenting as opposed to my little airstone.
 
smizak said:
I just listened to that Brewstrong podcast and the claim that foaming during aeration will kill head retention and head forming proteins is a little dubious.
Click to expand...

Checkout this thread.

I agree, Jamil is obviously exaggerating the potential foam damage caused by aerating with a pump. But, the argument that essential beer foam proteins are denatured upon foam creation appears to be correct. ;)
 
I use silicone aquarium tubing with a steel stone, and just boil the whole thing on the stove. NOT WHILE THE O2 TANK IS CONNECTED. O2 IS HIGHLY FLAMMABLE.

b
 
be sure you remove your regulator from those little red tanks. sometimes they still put pressure on the tank valve and you slowly, silently drain the whole day between brew sessions.

I know I have.
 
Palmer mentions in How to Brew that blind taste testing found that pure oxygen aeration resulted in lower scoring beer. I very rarely see that mentioned on here, was it eventually disproven?
 
hopvine said:
Palmer mentions in How to Brew that blind taste testing found that pure oxygen aeration resulted in lower scoring beer. I very rarely see that mentioned on here, was it eventually disproven?
Click to expand...

not sure, I have the book and didn't read anything about it. I could have easily missed it. Funny though he didn't say anything about it on the brewstrong thing i listened to.
 
hopvine said:
Palmer mentions in How to Brew that blind taste testing found that pure oxygen aeration resulted in lower scoring beer. I very rarely see that mentioned on here, was it eventually disproven?
Click to expand...

Most pro-brewers use pure O2 and they do OK.
 
I just read this section of "How To Brew" today. I was shocked to read that JP said pure O2 was NOT the way to go. From what I've read on this site, it seems like it's another one of those "primary only vs secondary" or "glass vs plastic" debates that lead to more confusion than answers. I started my research because of a vendor posting that their o2 kit was available again. Now I'm not sure what to do. Some people make it seem like it's the greatest thing to improve beer, and some say it's just not needed. I did read that pitching the right amount of yeast was more important than oxygen levels. But I just did a batch of beer that I pitched a good amount of yeast into that never made it to my desired FG. I've had minor attenuation problems in the past, and have wondered if an oxygenation system would help. It just seems like it's another one of those debates that never come to a clear conclusion.......a "do what works for you" thing.
 
hopvine said:
Palmer mentions in How to Brew that blind taste testing found that pure oxygen aeration resulted in lower scoring beer. I very rarely see that mentioned on here, was it eventually disproven?
Click to expand...

I'd like to say that is pure BS. In the name of efficiency and ease of use I would guess almost EVERY brewery uses bottled 02.

I love homebrewing but at the same time I hate the unsupported and often untested theories that some spout. Then that spouted theory becomes widely accepted. There is so much going on that can affect beer from the minute the grain is harvested. So many variables to throw off consistent results.

Mikey,

If you want to read a good book with that can back up results scientifically get the "Yeast" book from Chris White and Jamil Zainasheff. They discuss specifically oxygen and only way to get back to levels good enough for yeast health is using pure 02. The book also discusses the problems over-oxygenating can cause. So get the regulator or valve and start using pure 02.
 
mikeysab said:
I just read this section of "How To Brew" today. I was shocked to read that JP said pure O2 was NOT the way to go. From what I've read on this site, it seems like it's another one of those "primary only vs secondary" or "glass vs plastic" debates that lead to more confusion than answers. I started my research because of a vendor posting that their o2 kit was available again. Now I'm not sure what to do. Some people make it seem like it's the greatest thing to improve beer, and some say it's just not needed. I did read that pitching the right amount of yeast was more important than oxygen levels. But I just did a batch of beer that I pitched a good amount of yeast into that never made it to my desired FG. I've had minor attenuation problems in the past, and have wondered if an oxygenation system would help. It just seems like it's another one of those debates that never come to a clear conclusion.......a "do what works for you" thing.
Click to expand...

I'd also agree with the other poster that the new yeast book from JZ and Chris White has a much better explanation of O2 levels, what the do, how much and how to get them right.

BUT....

O2 is just one factor. Pitching rate is another. The 3rd biggie is temp. These are the big 3. You must control all 3 to really have full control over the ferment. 2 outta 3 won't quite do it.

I highly recommend reading that yeast book. The secret to making great beer is fermentation and that book will give you a much better understanding of the mysteries of yeast and fermentation.
 
smokinghole said:
In the name of efficiency and ease of use I would guess almost EVERY brewery uses bottled 02.
Click to expand...

Yes, most breweries use pure O2 to aerate. The remaining use compressed, sterile air. I'm in the latter camp for anything except high gravity beer.

The concern with using pure O2 is the haphazard metering process that often results in under/over oxygenation. This is where compressed air has an advantage - no complicated process to accurately determine the oxygen level (8 - 10 PPM depending on temperature).
 
lamarguy said:
Yes, most breweries use pure O2 to aerate. The remaining use compressed, sterile air. I'm in the latter camp for anything except high gravity beer.

The concern with using pure O2 is the haphazard metering process that often results in under/over oxygenation. This is where compressed air has an advantage - no complicated process to accurately determine the oxygen level (8 - 10 PPM depending on temperature).
Click to expand...

Yeah measuring the O2 is really not possible for the average brewer. You will need to do some trail and error. IMHO splashing, shaking and rocking the wort is reasonably effective at dissolving O2. I use pure O2 for about 60 seconds then I seal up the carboy and roll it on the table for 60 seconds. It's my feeling that the rolling really gets the O2 to dissolve into the liquid. Much the same way shaking a keg will help dissolve CO2 when carbonating.

But you should start with a method, take notes, be consistent and adjust depending on your results. O2 effects growth, lag time, esters, fusel alcohols, attenuation, etc...

Everybody's setup is different. For me 60 seconds of pure O2 then 60 seconds of rolling the carboy seam to work very well.
 
Cool,thanks. Im drinking my American amber wishing it was better. Also wish I had someone to critique and tell me what went wrong. I know part of the problem(too much crystal)but thats not the only problem. Fermentation seems to be a consistant problem. Im gonna check that book out, thanks
 
mikeysab said:
Also wish I had someone to critique and tell me what went wrong.
Click to expand...

Clubs and competitions are a great way to get feedback on your beer. Having your beer judged at a contest will give you the most honest comments. Clubs are also great cause you can have some back and forth interaction with other highly skilled brewers.
 

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