**PLEASE VOTE!** The Quest for the Ultimate Portable Brewery

I think the biab one seems tedious and while it would be easier for someone who is new to brewing after a few brews they would probably want the 3 vessel setup.

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

Have you done any 10g BIAB bakins? Any progress/design on your dedicated rig?

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No and No

I've not had the time lately - rather be brewing than building brew stuff I'm still formulating it, but will be basically like what you have but made of wood since I'll be all electric.

Don't let the BIAB naysayers get to you... The aussie brew boards are good places to get info..

You asked BK, you shall recieve.

I would go with #2. Keep in mind, BIAB requires a BIG pot. You are putting ALL of your water in there along with ALL of the grain. This volume can easily exceed 10 gallons for a 5 gallon brew session.

BIAB is a proven method to brew with, though rebuked by many. We like the staus quo here on HBT.

If the plan is portable and simple... 2-3 burners and three kettles just seems to defeat the purpose. Also, if I am not at home, I dont want to spend copious amounts of time cleaning up and such, BIAB is much less time consuming.


Here is more on the details of the process: Brew In A Bag (BIAB) All Grain Brewing Method | Brewer's Friend

But honestly, this is the route I would go. I would at least consider the option of not chilling and simply bringing along an HDPE container to drain the hot wort into.

My measly $.02

JerBrew V1.0

Pros:
-more traditional 3-vessel system
-less modification, will work out of the box
-two burners
-traditional double batch sparge

Cons:
-aluminum kettles (I know its fine, I have a problem will stainless desire)
-weird sized kettles (will likely be scrap when he gets his own place with room for a dedicated brew space)
-lots of lifting
-must transfer via siphon tube

JerBrew Part Duex

Pros:
-single vessel nerd factor
-packs down the smallest
-very minimal lifting
-Kettle can be used in a future more permanent system
-less clean up

Cons:
-unconventional sparging (I have no knowledge base)
-requires more DIY and construction of a stand
-requires a larger kettle

.........................

Please help me update this list as you think of things.

Here is a little rundown:

1.059 OG
10 gallons to the fermentor
20 pounds of malt
75% eff
60 minute boil
1.5gal/hr boil off
.5 gal lost to trub/deadspace

You need 15 gallons of water for BIAB, PLUS your 20 pounds of malt. You will easily be looking at a 20 gallon pot to be safe and have wiggle room here. Your mash volume will be 16-17 gallons. Keep in mind this is NOT exact, as grain absorption with BIAB is a little less than with a typical MLT... so your water requirement will be a little less than posted here.

Hope this adds some value to the discussion.

The Pol said:

Here is a little rundown:

1.059 OG
10 gallons to the fermentor
20 pounds of malt
75% eff


You need 15 gallons of water for BIAB, PLUS your 20 pounds of malt. You will easily be looking at a 20 gallon pot to be safe and have wiggle room here.

Hope this adds some value to the discussion.

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Hmmm.... I designed it with a 20.5g kettle, but I should be able to stretch the volume with my partial sparge idea where I transfer the sparge water into the fermenter then sparge the grains while partially lifter out of the kettle. This step is why I would need to have a dedicated stand.

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

Hmmm.... I designed it with a 20.5g kettle, but I should be able to stretch the volume with my partial sparge idea where I transfer the sparge water into the fermenter then sparge the grains while partially lifter out of the kettle. This step is why I would need to have a dedicated stand.

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Yeah, I wasnt really taking into consideration your sparge. Typical BIAB doesnt have a sparge. ALL of the water goes in, ALL of the grain goes in... the grains are lifted, drained and the boil begins.

I didn't read every post in detail but I get the basic idea of what you're trying to do. Compact 10 gallon batches. Some ideas.

You don't need two burners or three heatable vessels. I'd go this way:

15 gallon kettle, 10 gallon MLT, two 6.5g ale pails.

I THINK those will nest into the 15g kettle.

There are two ways to handle liquid now.

Heat strike in kettle, move to MLT dough in and then ignore it for 60 minutes.

At that point heat the sparge in the kettle. When you're finished with the mash, you can either heat the strike ten degrees over sparge temp and hold that in the ale pails while you run off to the kettle (slightly faster getting the wort on the flame). Or you can run off into the pails and keep the sparge in the kettle until you're done. Batch sparging shouldn't take long anyway.

Advantages? Single burner. No real structure needed. No insulation needed on the MLT. Frankly, this is the same kind of system I started with and I miss the portability and simplicity of the whole operation.

I vote for neither, I would go with a two pot setup, single burner (SQ14 is my favorite there, $55 shipped if you are Amazon prime or know someone who is who can order it for you), and use two ale pails as the MLT (inner one drilled with holes in the bottom, outer one with a valve).

You can't beat the simplicity, and you don't even need any valves, a 15G and 10G pot can be had for $100 at a restaurant supply store so no need to pay shipping. The whole setup would be about $250 by the time you buy a tank, the money saved could be used to buy a Barley Crusher.

Bobby_M said:

I didn't read every post in detail but I get the basic idea of what you're trying to do. Compact 10 gallon batches. Some ideas.

You don't need two burners or three heatable vessels. I'd go this way:

15 gallon kettle, 10 gallon MLT, two 6.5g ale pails.

I THINK those will nest into the 15g kettle.

There are two ways to handle liquid now.

Heat strike in kettle, move to MLT dough in and then ignore it for 60 minutes.

At that point heat the sparge in the kettle. When you're finished with the mash, you can either heat the strike ten degrees over sparge temp and hold that in the ale pails while you run off to the kettle (slightly faster getting the wort on the flame). Or you can run off into the pails and keep the sparge in the kettle until you're done. Batch sparging shouldn't take long anyway.

Advantages? Single burner. No real structure needed. No insulation needed on the MLT. Frankly, this is the same kind of system I started with and I miss the portability and simplicity of the whole operation.

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This is pretty close to what I was thinking would be a less expensive and more compact solution.

10 Gallon Rubbermaid cooler for mashing
1 big kettle as both HLT and BK
1 burner
1 three tier stand or use various household objects to get the right levels.
2 Ale pails
1 IC

Heat up strike water in the kettle and mash in.
Drain into pail.
Heat up sparge water in kettle and sparge the rest into another pail.
Put kettle on burner and dump the wort in.
Boil as normal, chill, dump into Ale pails, seal and pitch yeast.

The Ale pails will nest inside the cooler when not in use. If the kettle is wide enough, you might even be able to nest the cooler in it.

While I agree that on the surface the system's I have posted may seem expensive and complicated, they really aren't. The cooler and buckets idea would really only save him around $400 over the full BIAB solution with stand. If you cut out the extra stuff like chiller, pump, all stainless construction, BIAB cannot be beat.

I am just against hobbled together systems in general because I used one for so long and now know how big a difference a well thought out and designed system makes. That's why I have made all the crazy drawings for everything. Thinking through all the pieces makes you realize what is actually needed to get off and running.

Also, you need to remember he has nothing to start with. It makes a big difference in price if you have 3/4 of the stuff already.

I'm not doing 10g batches, but I think you could get away with something like my setup:

12g Igloo Cube MLT ($26 from WalMart + $45 copper tubing for manifold, or $10 SS braid)
15-20g Pot (Under $100)
1 Ale pail (Under $20)
1 Immersion Chiller ($60, I think someone said)
1 Burner ($55 to $110 depending on model)

Process:
Heat strike water in the pot.
Pour water into cooler, add grain.
Fill pot with sparge water, heat to sparging temperature.
Drain first runnings into ale pale.
Dump sparge water into cooler.
Dump first runnings into pot, begin heating to boil.
Drain second runnings into ale pale, then pour into the pot (unless you're able to go straight to the pot).
Boil, chill, transfer to fermenter(s).

The pale should nest in the pot, with the immersion chiller in the pale. You have three things to carry around: The pot/pale/chiller, the cooler (with manifold inside), and the burner. Four if you count the fuel tank.

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

While I agree that on the surface the system's I have posted may seem expensive and complicated, they really aren't. The cooler and buckets idea would really only save him around $400 over the full BIAB solution with stand. ...

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Only? $400 is 10x 10 gallon AG batches. Quite a bit of money, I'd say.

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

[
Cons:
-aluminum kettles (I know its fine, I have a problem will stainless desire)

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I have all aluminum kettles (BK and HLT) and wish I'd just bought stainless. SS is much easier to clean. I've been using aluminum for about 2 years and if I'd just thrown a dollar in a can each time I brewed, I could have just upgraded to SS.

Hegh said:

Only? $400 is 10x 10 gallon AG batches. Quite a bit of money, I'd say.

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Agreed, but being "cheap" can cause a lot of aggravation. My time is worth a lot to me, and so is my "state of mind." I actually partial mash BIAB a good bit. The extra cost is worth it for the ease. The extra $1.50 I have to spend on grain or the 3-4 pounds of extract I use is cheap compared to a nice relaxing brew day. Just my opinion, each of us enjoys the hobby differently.

On a slightly different note, after harvesting my hops, I realized I save a whopping $8 by growing my own. Not that I did it for the money (hop prices cam down since I plated them last year - and only the centennials actually produce any usable cones),but it was slightly disheartening...

bakins said:

Agreed, but being "cheap" can cause a lot of aggravation. My time is worth a lot to me, and so is my "state of mind." I actually partial mash BIAB a good bit. The extra cost is worth it for the ease. The extra $1.50 I have to spend on grain or the 3-4 pounds of extract I use is cheap compared to a nice relaxing brew day. Just my opinion, each of us enjoys the hobby differently.

On a slightly different note, after harvesting my hops, I realized I save a whopping $8 by growing my own. Not that I did it for the money (hop prices cam down since I plated them last year - and only the centennials actually produce any usable cones),but it was slightly disheartening...

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Very true. I enjoy problem solving and building little gadgets (like the manifold for my MLT; I could have gone for a SS braid, but this sounded like so much more fun).

So eventually I'll probably go for a big automated system, but I'll build it piece-by-piece on my own because that's what I find fun.

If you find other parts of the hobby fun, spend more to get past the parts that you don't like if you can afford it. What does Jeremy seem to like best about the choices?

bakins said:

That is nice. Pricey as heck. Basically, I want to build something like that. It won't be nearly as pretty, but serve the same purpose.

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Compared to a SABCO, or a Blichmann system? Pretty cheap, if you're comparing apples and apples. That 50l system would do over 10 gal, completely automated with all the rests, and for about $3K US. It's not as cheap as my collection of plastic buckets and carboys, cooler conversion MLT and turkey burner......but you can't compare the two, either. I get good beer by constant attention to my system, which would not be required with the system shown. That Speidel is basically like an automated coffeemaker. You put in the ingredients, and drain off the finished wort.

rico567 said:

... That Speidel is basically like an automated coffeemaker. You put in the ingredients, and drain off the finished wort.

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That's exactly how I thought of it too. In fact, without reading any of the text, I was wondering if it acted as fermentation vessel as well.

FAIL.

My friend just emailed me to say that his brewing stash will now go to a new truck because the exhaust just fell off his car.

I am a little annoyed because he had me research and design all this stuff and now bailed. Oh well, I can't be mad because it sucks for him, but still....

Maybe he will get back to this project sometime...

Boerderji,
Not a total fail - You really turned me on to a great set up and a wonderful solution to my lack of storage space. For 1 'unit' of space, I can get a 2 tier or 3 tier system with Wildwest's mods (sweet!). 2 burners to start with, cooler MLT, gravity flow (I do 5 gal batches). This can easily be upgraded with a pump in the future, plumbing, then some temp control - - oooh starting to get tingily inside. All of which takes only slightly more floor space than my current burner and tank. The entry price is a bit steep, but even building a rig from wood, you are going to approach that once you buy the burners.
Wow, I can't wait to get started. NO I just havee to save my nickles and dimes.
A big hats off to you and to wildwest450 for showing a great rig with a lot of potential.
Thanks,
Jason

I would like to get an update from wildwest about the system - how it is working out, problems, changes and durability. The last I could find was back in feb

Bummer BK.... but which way were you leaning towards? The voting appears to be a tie at the moment...

I was leaning toward the BIAB (Part Duex) mainly for the simplicity and cool factor.

WOW... how was this never brought up?!!!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f85/countertop-brutus-20-a-131096/



It doesn't meet the 10g requirement but gosh is that sexy!!!!!

Based on JKarp's awesome countertop Brutus Twenty Build, I came up with this.

Yes, it is over-the-top. That's just how I roll...

Coolumb.

I started a build thread in DIY on my Countertop Brutus 20...

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

Coolumb.

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BK, I just went back here to look at the stand that you had in the first part, but I like your design on the third item you came up with. I'd stopped following this after your buddy backed out (I died a little inside.) What dimensions were you looking at for this picture above? 5 Gallons system? I'd go all out and automate it!

That build could be done for 4 gallon batches on 120VAC power, or larger batches if you have access to 220VAC.

The dimensions of the stand really depend on the kettles you use. If you give me some kettle dimensions I can adjust the stand design and give you dimension drawings.

Also, here is my automation ideas for the same system. Maybe that will be useful.

In other news, Jeremy is indeed going ahead with a brewery. Find details here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/simple-brewing-est-2009-build-147021/

...................... Overview of the Simple Brewery (first post from that thread)...............................

So my friend Jeremy has been wanting to start brewing for about a year. He has saved up some cash now and chosen a design. Here were some of the things we were kicking around:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/please-vote-quest-ultimate-portable-brewery-127359/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/countertop-brutus-20-a-131411/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/brewstand-input-144970/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/brouwerij-der-boerderij-kabouter-72118/

Initially he wanted to brew 10g at a time. However, his main requirements for the system are that it be completely portable because he likes to travel brew, it be cost conscious, and be well designed and easy to brew on. After some thought he decided 10g wasn't that important so we considered smaller batches. After seeing Jkarp's brewery, we had a good idea what we wanted to do.

So I designed the following system, based heavily on Brutus 20 and Jkarp's design. I call it the Twent-E2 and Jeremy is calling his brewery "simple".

Here is my first shot at a logo for him. This will likely change and I will update as it does.



Here is the design for the brewery. It is two 1/4 bbl kegs. We selected the rubber coated type for insulation and because they look cool.

Storage mode:


and assembled for brewing:


A 2000kW water heater element is installed in the boil kettle (the top vessel), and is used to heat mash and sparge water, and to boil the wort. The lid for the boil kettle (not shown) will include a 25' copper coil and a stirrer. The coil will act as both a HERMS coil and as a chiller. The stirrer will be used to distribute heat during use as a HERMS and as a whirlpool during chilling.

Here is how the brewery will function on brewday:


All components are stainless except the copper coil. Here is a breakdown of everything including supplies for his startup brewery:


If you want the spreadsheet format, send me a PM with your email address and I will forward the sheet to you.

Here is an assembly guide:


The toolbox will include all controls (PID, element switch, pump switch, and stirrer switch) and the pump.

I think that is about it. I will update this thread as the build continues over the next month or so. We are shooting to be brewing at Simple Brewery before the new year!!!

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

WOW.... just had a thought. Remove the burner and replace with a 115VAC heating element and you have the smallest AG system possible.

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Don't steal my thunder! I will be doing this once I get my Unibrew 5500 done. The 24 qt bayou classic SS stockpot with basket is perfect for this. You could do this right next to your stovetop, and to keep the vessel small, just heat a pot of water for sparging. Kind of a 1.5 vessel brew rig. The unit itself would have 1 pump, 1 PID, and 1 switch. All would fit under the unit. The kettle would have a bottom drain, no dip tube. I plan on having a sightglass on the side so I can see the recircing wort. LOC-LINE could easily redirect the output to the fermenter....and a custom made IC could fit right into the basket with lo-pro disconnects for easy hookup to the sink.

I personally think the Spiedels Braumeister is over-complicated.