I was under the impression...

that most batch spargers drained their first first runnings completely, then added sparge water, stirred, vourlafed, drained then repeated (for split sparges).

If so, what would be be the benefit to this as opposed to how John Palmer describes how to do it? Im very new to all grain brewing (One batch) and am trying to improve my effienciecy and technique.

John's method: Drain off the first runnings into a quart pitcher. The wort will be cloudy with bits of grain. Slowly pour the wort back into the grainbed, recirculating the wort. Repeat this procedure until the wort exiting the tun is pretty clear (like unfiltered apple cider). It will be amber colored, but not cloudy. It should only take a couple quarts.

Once the wort has cleared, drain the wort carefully into your boiling pot. Fill the pot slowly at first and allow the level to cover the outlet tube. Be sure to have a long enough tube so that the wort enters below the surface and does not splash. The splashing of hot wort before the boil can cause long term oxidation damage to the flavor of the beer.

Watch the outflow of wort, you do not want to lauter too fast, as this could compact the grainbed and you would get a stuck sparge. A rate of 1 quart/minute is the most common. Allow the wort level in the Tun to drop until it is about an inch above the level of the grain. Now start adding the sparge water, either from the hot water tun or by pouring in a couple quarts at a time, onto the coffee can lid, maintaining at least an inch of free water above the grainbed.

You are describing a fly sparge or continous sparge technique. In batch sparge you drain first runnings and add sparge mix and drain and repeat. In both methods you must recirculate the first few quarts to keep grain out of kettle..

As for benefit..well search both techniques and make your own judgement..this will avoid a long and winded argument..they both have benefits..IMO I would start with a batch sprage technique until comfterble with the whole process and then try fly sparge if you desire..again IMO

Jay

Then why did he say to keep dumping water on to the mash by hand, like a batch sparge? That seems like a lot of extra trouble, if your going to fly sparge, why not use the proper equipment. And in no way was this meant to start a fly/batch sparge argument, I was under the impression he was batch sparging, which is what I have chosen to do.

What you discribe is the newer modern batch sparge method which was designed to be more efficient and eliminate tannins due to the grain not being exposed to air or oxygen when the mash tun is emptied completely as in the older batch sparge method. The older method is common right now and most home brewers do not see any ill effects from the older method. I personally have tried this modern method and find it is easy and think that it may do as it suggests in that the water is also in contact with the grain for a longer period of time. I do stir the top half of the grain a bit to keep the grainbed loose to extract all the sugar I can get. I watch for any debris and vorlauf if necessary.

Add it by the pitcher or drizzle it in, I'd still call it fly sparging. Just bigger flies.

wildwest450 said:

Then why did he say to keep dumping water on to the mash by hand, like a batch sparge? That seems like a lot of extra trouble, if your going to fly sparge, why not use the proper equipment.

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He's fly (or continuous) sparging. The distinction between the two methods is whether you're continuoally drawing off wort or drawing it off in batches.

Why do it without the "proper" equipment? To keep equipment costs down. Palmer's book is for people new to brewing; since there's not actually a need for specialised equipment, he's not going to insist that you buy it all up front.

If you're not infusing, stirring and completely draining, it's NOT batch sparging. If you're fly sparging and keep feeding it while the water is still above the grain, you're just doing a poor man's fly sparge.

or 'manual fly sparge'

I think most dedicated fly spargers have a sparge arm (or similar assembly) so they can open the value on their HLT and sparge as they collect runnings...thus an 'automated fly sparge'

(for lack of better terminology)

I just read Palmer on lautering. http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter17.html
Palmer calls this process continuous sparging. Most people call it fly sparging.

More

All you need to know about batch sparge.

http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

chessking said:

All you need to know about batch sparge.

http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

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I post that link constantly, and I'll second it. It's how I brew, and I'll never fly sparge because it works so well, I'm not even curious.

Also, for a video to learn from, search YouTube for Donosborn Batch sparging... Demny's write up got me to batch sparging, and Don's video showed me how. Been at it since 15 batches ago.

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Fly sparge = vorlauf, then open the valve into the boil kettle a little. At the same time add water from the HLT at a rate that the grainbed stays covered by an inch or so. Then adjust the flow rates so that it takes close to an hour to fill the boil kettle to your preboil amounts.

Batch sparge = vorlauf then drain the mash tun. Add water for the sparge in either one batch or sometimes 2 or three. Stir like crazy, let it sit for a few minutes the vorlauf again, drain again then repeat if you are doing the sparge in more than one step.

This is the simplified explanation, not covering temperatures, setting the grainbed, or the risk of channeling with fly sparging. It also does not address the different ways of distributing fly sparge water.

phoenixs4r said:

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I was wondering how the OP (who I've seen around here since I showed up) had over 9,000 posts and was just now getting into AG.

phoenixs4r said:

2-0-0-8

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This forum is terrible at necroing threads.