First time Lagering brewing and fermenting plan

I am making a black lager/Schwarz http://www.beertools.com/html/recipe.php?view=5896

The guy didn't list any fermentation notes so I am reading up and trying to make a good plan.

I am brewing today, doing extract, and using the Fermentis s-23, I made a 1 pint starter then stepped it up to make sure I had enough yeast. I have kept the starter in 50' temps in the same spot where I will be primary fermenting.

My CF chiller will get things down to the 55'-60' range cause its now cold out and the water out of the side of my house is flipping cold.

Any recommendations on steeping temp? I was going to shoot for 152'.

Next, per my reading, I will let the primary fermentation take place, until the beer hits around 1.020 then check for any buttery tastes. If that is there then I will do a diacetel rest, bringing the temps up to about 60' for a 48 hours or so.

following the D rest, or if non is required, I will rack to a corny, and bring the temp down a couple of degree's per day. I am going to do this by slowly moving it away from the house wall in my garage... towards the garage door... the temp drops 8 or so degree's the further away I go. Once I get down to 40' I can put it in the frig and that will take care of bringing it down to mid-30's. there it will stay for 1 month, then rack to a serving/lagering keg...

does this make sense? thanks so much for any comments.

You got it. I'll ferment at 50 degrees and when it starts to slow I'll start cranking the temp up to 58 degrees and wait for it to drop clear and show no signs of life. Then it's time to rack and crash for lagering. You can drop the temp slowly. It's a way of keeping the yeast active for a bit longer if it's still trying to finish things up.

thanks PT... Its now fermenting at right about 52'.... perfect for the yeast. I am exiting to walk through this process. Hope to make a great Black Lager.

thanks

I just looked up your recipe. That is not a Schwarzbier, it's more of a Dunkel at best. The grain bill is almost spot on for an American Stout. Don't take it as a bad recipe but just one that doesn't fall into a particular style.

hahaha that serves me right for thinking i was on track to brew a good lager... OK. Can you point me towards a Schwarzbier recipe??? The american stout/fake black lager is fermenting fine. Started blowing bubbles about 6 hours after pitching...

thoughts?

I got to thinking, if someone were to ask what I thought an American Schwarz would be that would be it. Well, something close. I'm feeling it now. It just needed some domestic hops like Cluster or Mt. Hood. The crystal malt and some of roasted barley probably needs to be dropped. You'll have to let me know it goes. I might have to throw my own version together.

Well its fermenting so who knows. I'll post back in a few weeks.

thanks

Ok Racked to secondary today. The kruesen had fallen off. While racking there was a off smell but tasting the beer there didn't seem to be anything off about it. Its gone from a 1.061 to 1.020, there is some sweetness to it, but it will still move down I hope into the 1.016 range which should fix some of that.

Ever had a beer smell a little off while racking but not in the taste?

Next time let it sit in the primary until everything has settled out and it starts to clear. That will allow the beer to completely ferment out and lose a lot of the fermentation bypoducts before lagering. I'll let it go at least 3 weeks for an average gravity beer before racking.

I'm doing my own version today of what I call an American Schwartzbier. It is going use a Coopers Heritage Lager as the base. I used your recipe, the two in Jamil's book and what supplies I had to come up with the grain bill.

5.25 Gallons
(1) Coopers Heritage Lager kit
.41 lbs Sugar
1.75 lbs Pilsener Malt
.70 lbs Munich Malt
4 oz Chocolate Malt
3 oz Roasted Barley
2 oz Sinamar
.5 oz Hallertau - Flavor addition
Coopers Premium Selection yeast
O.G. 1.046
Final 1.010

Coopers extract tends to finish on the high side so I used some sugar to compensate. The grains will be mashed in a 2.5 gallon mash tun. I needed some Carafa Special or other huskless roasted malt to get the black color but didn't have any. I do have the some of the coloring used in Abita Turbodog. I'm guessing it's Sinamar as it's in an unlabeled container and never saw the original packaging. I chose to use Coopers PS yeast because I have enough slurry ready from a prior batch to kick this one off. It's an ale/lager blend and easily ferments down to 50 degrees. It doesn't come out exactly like a pure lager strain but for this beer it's fine.

Let me know how this turns out. I am curious to hear. This weekend is 2 weeks since I brewed. Its still blowing off a lot, I may start moving it closer to the garage door. As it gets closer it will get colder. Think I'll wait one more week to get all the fermentation out of it, then move it close every couple days.

I have to get a cobra head attached to it. to test it every 3-4 weeks...

Keep me in the loop on how yours tastes. Maybe I'll brew yours next.

PT, its been a month since brewing, its been in a keg for almost 3 weeks. Just moved it into the fridge which sits a little above freezing.

It has a great roasty very very slightly sweet taste. Overall very nice. OG was 1.061, and the current gravity is 1.018 which is contributing to a little sweetness.

The only issue I see right now is that there is a slightly buttery finish. Its pretty minor but that is diacytil right? Could it age out? I want to leave it for another couple weeks at least before starting to drink, that would be 6 weeks at least, with 2 weeks below 40'... thoughts?

thanks man

Hey Promontry, I just noticed your last post while I was going to update my results. Diacetyl is described as buttery. I like to raise the temp about 10 degrees for the last week of primary fermentation to clean things up and to get it to attenuate as much as possible. Then I'll transfer to the lagering vessel before dropping to near freezing temps.

I'm currently drinking my "American Schwartz" and totally digging it. The roasted grains give a cappuccino like character which I think is part in due to the residual sweetness from the extract. It like American Brown meets an Euro lager.

Cool that you like yours. Mine turned out well. I think the buttery taste/feel faded. I am leaving it as long as possible before really drinking.

I also agree on the cappuccino and roasted grains...