All Grain Vs BIAB - Pro's & Con's (5 Gal Batches)

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dstranger99

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I was interested if anyone would like to discuss the Pro's-Con's of beer brewed via AG and the BIAB method.

Is there a major difference in the end result of AG vs BIAB ?

The idea seems to be generally the same, just minus the equipment that AG requires.

With BIAB, you still mash, still have the options of mash out, and sparge. And after the boil the other procedures are identical. Cool the wort, gravity reading, pitch yeast, put in primary, etc.

It seems with AG the brewer receives higher efficiency, but I've seen threads on BIAB where the brewer still hit 70 %


Let's have a friendly discussion. What are the Pro's-Con's of each method ?
 
Both methods are AG (all grain). One requires a mash tun, the other does not.

I BIAB all my batches. I also mill my own grain and I mill it very fine. It would never work in a conventional mash tun because it is too fine and the hulls are too badly mangled to make a filter bed. With this finely milled grain I typically get 80% or better efficiency, usually 85% or better if I do a modified sparge to get the extra sugars out of the grain bag.

I have to lift the bag of wet grain out of the pot to let it drain. Some people have equated that to torture but I let mine drain into the pot for less than 30 seconds and then slip a bowl that has a colander inside it under the bag so it doesn't drip and set that on the counter to finish draining/getting the wort squeezed out. Why would I want to have to dig the wet grain out of the mash tun and try to not disturb the false bottom/braid/bzooka screen/mainfold while doing so. Once I have the wort squeezed out of the bag of grain it is so simple to take the bag out to the compost and turn it inside out to empty the bag. A quick rinse in the sink and hang it to dry and it's ready for the next batch.
 
Lifting the bag realistically limits the amount of grain you can mash in BIAB. Unless you have a pully system, no one with a typical brewer's body can lift, hold, and squeeze 20+ lbs of wet grain.

If anything, I find it easier to get high efficiency with 5 gallon BIAB batches. The fact that you can mill finer typically means higher efficiency compared to AG. I average 78% efficiency on my BIAB system with no tricks besides a double mill and a mashout.

The guy I brew with does traditional AG, and I'm always done an hour before he is. I typically have everything cleaned and put away by the time he starts his immersion chiller.

I'm BIAB all the way, and think it really is more convenient and flexible compared to traditional AG brewing for 5-6 gallon batches. Once you get into larger batches, traditional AG brewing starts to make alot more sense.
 
Lifting the bag realistically limits the amount of grain you can mash in BIAB. Unless you have a pully system, no one with a typical brewer's body can lift, hold, and squeeze 20+ lbs of wet grain.

If anything, I find it easier to get high efficiency with 5 gallon BIAB batches. The fact that you can mill finer typically means higher efficiency compared to AG. I average 78% efficiency on my BIAB system with no tricks besides a double mill and a mashout.

The guy I brew with does traditional AG, and I'm always done an hour before he is. I typically have everything cleaned and put away by the time he starts his immersion chiller.

I'm BIAB all the way, and think it really is more convenient and flexible compared to traditional AG brewing for 5-6 gallon batches. Once you get into larger batches, traditional AG brewing starts to make alot more sense.

I too am a BIAB'er all the way and I agree with you in that the only con I see is doing bigger beers and if you have a pulley system, that's really not an issue either. I have a pulley system but I have yet to brew a beer with a large enough grain bill that I had to use it.

I just like the convenience and time saving that BIAB gives you.
 
It looks like BiaB is pretty well-represented here. I've done BiaB (both partial and full mash) for quite a while, but recently switched to AG with an MLT and HLT setup.

The most important point I want to make is that they both produce beer; in fact, they both produce good beer. In my experience, however, I got lower efficiencies with BiaB, around 60-65%, whereas with my AG batches I am up around 75-80% consistently. For most of today's well-modified grains, the difference between fine crush and course crush is generally negligible at around 1-2% (correct me if I'm wrong). I crushed the piss out of my BiaB grains to get higher efficiencies, but it never really got higher. It's probably do to my sparging method (letting it rest in sparge water for 15 minutes), but this also caused me to do a lot more squishing of my bag, trying to extract the sugars, which isn't necessarily a good thing. I may be full of ****, but my last few partial mash brews seem to have more of that herbstoffe astringency associated with husk degradation and phenol extraction.

I guess I would just like to add that It's more fun for me when all of the mechanical and technical components of mashing and fly sparging with an MLT and HLT come together to create wort, rather than just dunking a bag into a couple pots of water. In the end, they both make beer, so they both must be good. :tank:
 
I also BIAB - 2.5 and 5 gallon batches. I solved the big beer issue (for me) by double mashing for a barleywine - basically you mash with half the grain, pull out and drain, empty bag, fill with other half of grist and mash again. Takes longer, but it worked great (66% mash efficiency - 1.102 OG - this was before I got my corona Mill, I bet I could get it closer to 75% now this way)
 
Both BIAB and the cooler MLT are relatively low cost methods to make AG beer.
Add a grain mill and you can start buying base grains in 50lb sacks and offset the equipment cost.
I am getting 75-80% efficiency on my BIAB 5 gallon batches with FG in the 1.05 to 1.07 range.
 
I also BIAB but I do have a conventional cooler MLT as well. I hardly ever use the cooler though for the reasons previously mentioned (quicker/less mess), but also because I like being able to direct fire my mash using BIAB. I never have to worry about under shooting my mash temps and its a breeze to mash out. I use a stainless steel false bottom in my kettle to help prevent scorching my grains and that works pretty well. Just stir a lot when heat is being applied (careful not to splash!)

Using this approach and the mash out I routinely hit 85% brew house efficiency. For big beers where I would need more than 20 lbs of grain (which I rarely make) I "cheat" and supplement a 15-20 lb grain bill with DME.

The only way I could see giving up BIAB all together is if I decided to step up to 10 gallon batches, in which case the grain bills would get quite heavy even in moderate strength beers. For my purposes though, I can't see myself ever moving above 5 gallon batches.
 
I do BIAB. Wouldn't be doing AG brewing otherwise. I don't have the space for the extra stuff. I have done 2 ten gallon batches before. The last one was 22 lbs. those were difficult. In fact I will likely not do that again. I have yet to brew any beer over 1.060. I prefer session beers so BIAB works great for me.
 
Been doing standard cooler-mash AG for my 5 gallon batches, but am planning my first 2.5 gal BIAB in a couple weeks for an experimental beer (Rooibos African Ale). Will report back with a verdict on which method I prefer, though I don't think I have the capacity for 5 gal BIAB batches with my setup, so that may dictate some...
 
I BIAB and I like it because of the simplistic approach. I can produce any beer I want without the extra equipment that traditional AG requires.

I have added a table that is made for cleaning fish (obviously bought it new and haven't cleaned fish on it) but it is amazing! There is basically a ridge or a lip that goes around the entire thing, and there is a slight angle towards one end of the table with a hole and a tube connected. So what I do is pull the bag after the mash is complete, and I set the bag on the table. I put a bucket under the table and run the tube into the bucket, and I smash the hell out of my grains on that. This way, I don't have to hold heavy grains for an extended amount of time.

;)
 
I tried BIAB with a recipe I normally do in my Cheap'n'Easy cooler mash tun. I'll never do it again. It was a total PITA to lift that much hot, wet, heavy grain. Sure, I could build a lift, but IMO that's more hassle than building a mash tun.
 
I also do BIAB for all of my batches. For a five gallon batch, my grain bill ranges anywhere from 8 pounds to 15 or so pounds. Is it particularly ergonomic to lift that much grain after it has absorbed all that water? No it's not! However, I lift my grain, and use a couple of pieces of kindling to hold up the false bottom on top of my kettle. I then let it drain and I squeeze it while bring the wort to a boil. So I'm really not having to hold it, just lift it. TOTALLY convenient and it's worth it to me to not have to buy/build/work with a cooler mash tun.

I am by no means bashing cooler mash tun users, or the technique. But BIAB works for me!! And I hit my volume and OG almost perfectly almost every time.
 
I am by no means bashing cooler mash tun users, or the technique. But BIAB works for me!! And I hit my volume and OG almost perfectly almost every time.

That's really what it's all about and that is what works best for each brewer. For me, that's BIAB and as long as I continue to make great beers at consistent efficiencies in the 80's and hit my OG, I see no reason to change a thing... :mug:
 
Yep!! If you brewed by doing some crazy weird technique, who cares as long as it works for you?
 
I am by no means bashing cooler mash tun users, or the technique. But BIAB works for me!! And I hit my volume and OG almost perfectly almost every time.

That's really what it's all about and that is what works best for each brewer. For me, that's BIAB and as long as I continue to make great beers at consistent efficiencies in the 80's and hit my OG, I see no reason to change a thing... :mug:
 
TopherM said:
Lifting the bag realistically limits the amount of grain you can mash in BIAB. Unless you have a pully system, no one with a typical brewer's body can lift, hold, and squeeze 20+ lbs of wet grain.

If anything, I find it easier to get high efficiency with 5 gallon BIAB batches. The fact that you can mill finer typically means higher efficiency compared to AG. I average 78% efficiency on my BIAB system with no tricks besides a double mill and a mashout.

The guy I brew with does traditional AG, and I'm always done an hour before he is. I typically have everything cleaned and put away by the time he starts his immersion chiller.

I'm BIAB all the way, and think it really is more convenient and flexible compared to traditional AG brewing for 5-6 gallon batches. Once you get into larger batches, traditional AG brewing starts to make alot more sense.

I completely agree with the above. I split my grain into two 5 gallon paint strainer bags. My biggest grain bill has been around 16lbs for a 5 gallon batch, so lifting and squeezing 8lb bags has not been a problem at all.
 
I BIAB in an aluminum pot with the strainer basket. I drape the voile bag over the basket for mashing. The basket keeps the bag off the bottom of the pot. For sparging, I lift the basket (heavy but doable) and place a BBQ grate on top of the pot. Then I set the basket on top of the grate for rinsing and squeezing. Works well for me and I've gotten by without needing a pulley. But I only have a 40 quart pot.
 
I think you'll find that cooler users don't see any need to switch over to BIAB and BIABers are going to say it's easier and better than using a cooler. I use a cooler and I just can't see how having to manage mash temps in a pot and lifting and draining a huge, hot, heavy bag full of wort is easier or better than pouring water into a cooler and opening a valve. To be fair I make 3 gallon batches so my mash and sparge water amounts are never more than 4 gallons. If I had to move 8 gallons of water around I may be thinking of something different.

My opinion is that if you're starting from scratch, it seems like a toss up in terms of equipment and learning curve. If you already have a cooler and an MLT you'll probably stick with it. If you first learn to BIAB, you'll probably keep on BIAB.

I also think that neither method makes better beer than the other. Try them both and decide for yourself. And let us know how it goes.
 
I think you'll find that cooler users don't see any need to switch over to BIAB and BIABers are going to say it's easier and better than using a cooler. I use a cooler and I just can't see how having to manage mash temps in a pot and lifting and draining a huge, hot, heavy bag full of wort is easier or better than pouring water into a cooler and opening a valve. To be fair I make 3 gallon batches so my mash and sparge water amounts are never more than 4 gallons. If I had to move 8 gallons of water around I may be thinking of something different.

My opinion is that if you're starting from scratch, it seems like a toss up in terms of equipment and learning curve. If you already have a cooler and an MLT you'll probably stick with it. If you first learn to BIAB, you'll probably keep on BIAB.

I also think that neither method makes better beer than the other. Try them both and decide for yourself. And let us know how it goes.

Managing mash temps is pretty easy with the larger volume of water. The last brew I made I just heated the water to strike temp, stirred in the grain, put the lid on a walked away. When the mash was done, the temperature may have dropped as much as 2 degrees, not enough to worry about in my world.

When I lift the bag I do have to lift the hot bag of grains with wort in them but I don't have to lift it all the way out in one step, I can lift a little, let it drain some, then lift it the rest of the way. Plop it into a bowl with a colander inside and I'm not holding it while I squeeze the bag. When you get through with your mash, don't you have to lift the cooler full of wet grains to dump it or do you scoop it out in smaller containers? I could use multiple bags to reduce the weight if I needed to.
 
I did my first all grain brew yesterday, a version of BIAB which involved mashing in my turkey fryer pot with a paint strainer bag and dunk sparging in a fermenter bucket. I used the strainer basket that came with the pot to contain the bag, and lifting it out by the handle and letting it drain was very easy. (I only mashed 8.5 lbs of grain, though; larger amounts might not be so manageable.)

The benefit for me of BIAB was being able to try out all grain without spending any money, or change my process all that much. I already had the turkey fryer and the paint strainer bag. I had already been doing partial mashes by basically the same method in my kitchen. To make the switch to all grain all I had to to was move the operation outside, use more grains and water, and use bigger vessels for mashing and sparging.

Being such a novice, I'm clearly not qualified to give you all the pros and cons of BIAB vs. traditional AG brewing. But I will say that one of the great things about this hobby is that there isn't just one right way to do things. So keep reading, try something you think will work for you, and see what happens.
 
I've been doing standard AG in a cooler for a while, started BIAB for smaller 3 gallon batches with a 32 qt kettle on an induction burner to teach my daughter. I like them both, and I'm totally enjoying experimental small batches which I put into my 2.5 and 3 gallon kegs. 5 gallon batches are still better done traditional AG for me.

I will say BIAB. is a slightly more irritating process - just the hefting/draining aspect - but with the no sparge and single vessel is also faster and a marginally easier clean up.

No difference in beers.
 
I BIAB for small stovetop batches (2.5 gal), but for larger (5 gal) batches, I do a combo outside on the burner. I have a 15 gal kettle and a 7.5 gal kettle. For 5 gal batches, I'll mash in the 15 (with the bag), sparge and then run off into the 7.5 gal. I can collect approx. 7 gallons without a problem this way. Using the bag allows for a finer crush. Plus, the bag in the mash tun makes cleanup really easy.
 
I used to brew 5 gal AG batches cooler style for many years then sold all my stuff and downsized to 2.5 gal BIAB. I'm having more fun now experimenting with these smaller batches and get great efficiencies of 75-85%.

I tend to agree with others that larger batches may be better off with a MLT system.
 
After trying each method, I've found Mash-IAB to be the best of both worlds. Temperature is more stable, sparging is easier than the kettle method, stuck sparges are a thing of the past, and cleanup is so much easier with the grain bagged.
 
hoppus said:
After trying each method, I've found Mash-IAB to be the best of both worlds. Temperature is more stable, sparging is easier than the kettle method, stuck sparges are a thing of the past, and cleanup is so much easier with the grain bagged.

Please describe this method u speak of.
 
After trying each method, I've found Mash-IAB to be the best of both worlds. Temperature is more stable, sparging is easier than the kettle method, stuck sparges are a thing of the past, and cleanup is so much easier with the grain bagged.

Interesting. When I hear that I have to wonder why you were having those problems before. My cooler holds temp to within 2F for 90+ min. Batch sparging is so easy and fast that it takes les than 5 min. In 436 batches I've never had a stuck runoff. To clean the tun, I just pour it out on the compost pile. I guess that's why I haven't found any advantages to BIAB.
 
Can't seem to figure out how to quote from my phone.

MIAB is simply putting the grain in nylon bags and then adding them to a mash tun. I suppose you don't even need a valve and could just siphon the wort out in this situation if need be.


I should have been more cleqr in my first post. I was only having problems with the temp when I was trying to mash/sparge in the brew kettle. As for stuck sparges I crush pretty fine and probably have a crappy braid. I suppose I could not crush the grain so fine, but at 85-90% efficiency I'm hesitant to change anything. I live in an apartment with no outdoor space so the advantages of cleanup may be specific to my situation.
 
So with the mash in a bag (in a cooler), do you just drain out of the stock spigot? Without putting a ball valve on?
 
So with the mash in a bag (in a cooler), do you just drain out of the stock spigot? Without putting a ball valve on?

You can do it either way. Heck, you don't even need a spigot. I have an spare cooler without one and I just use tubing and siphon it out when I use that one :cross:.
 
Managing mash temps is pretty easy with the larger volume of water.

This. Last time I brewed a 5 gallon batch, I mashed at 152 and the temp only dropped 2 degrees in a 60 mash.

Another good thing about BIAB is that you really do not need to do a mash out. Mash out is basically to stop conversion, and since you are taking the grains out of the hot liquid, that essentially stops conversion right there. Just one less thing I have to worry about on brew day. :rockin:
 
I found a really successful alternative to holding the grain bag suspended above the kettle. I use an Ale Pale with an upside down plastic colander in the bottom. I lift the bag and hold it for a few seconds to let it drain then place it in the bucket on the colander. I use a 10" pot lid and press down on the bag. I press it a few times then dump the wort into the kettle. I repeat this a few times, re-positioning the bag as necessary.

No sore arms and I get every drop of wort out of that bag!! Works great!
 
This. Last time I brewed a 5 gallon batch, I mashed at 152 and the temp only dropped 2 degrees in a 60 mash.

Another good thing about BIAB is that you really do not need to do a mash out. Mash out is basically to stop conversion, and since you are taking the grains out of the hot liquid, that essentially stops conversion right there. Just one less thing I have to worry about on brew day. :rockin:



The enzymes and sugars are already in the liquid by the time you pull the bag out, so removing the bag does nothing to stop conversion. However, you are (nearly) immediately heating up that liquid to mash out temps anyway as soon as you pull the bag out, so it's a moot point.
 
Hoppus, I am totally trying this next time. In a five gallon cooler, how much grain could I mash in that? With all the water?
 
I used to brew 5 gal AG batches cooler style for many years then sold all my stuff and downsized to 2.5 gal BIAB. I'm having more fun now experimenting with these smaller batches and get great efficiencies of 75-85%.

I tend to agree with others that larger batches may be better off with a MLT system.

Hoppus, I am totally trying this next time. In a five gallon cooler, how much grain could I mash in that? With all the water?

With a 5 gallon mash tun, you're limited to about 4.5 total volume with the grain and water. In a traditional mash, you'd be limited to about 12 pounds of grain (at 1.25 quarts/pound).

If you're making a 5 gallon batch, I assume you'd start with a 6.5 gallon boil. 6.5 gallons of liquid won't fit in a 5 gallon cooler, not to mention the grain and of course the liquid absorbed by the grain.

But if you would sparge, then you'd have no issues.
 
Yooper, I should have specified. I do 3 gallon batches. So a 6 or 7 pound grain bill will be about between 2 - 2.5 gallons of strike water. Adding the grains, would that fit in a five gallon cooler?
 
I have had great results with BIAB. It works best with the bitters I've been making that typically come in under 1.045. I have found that more grains (1.055+) means lower efficiency. I have a 32q pot and with the false bottom in there I think I am limiting the space that the grains can spread out and do their thing.

Next time I do a higher gravity brew I think I'll just leave out the bottom so the grains can have the whole pot. It's only purpose is to keep them off the heat, and the mash has been holding its temp pretty well without turning on the burners.

Lifting the bag is not a problem, just gather and lift slowly so the water has a chance to drain, then transfer to another pot with a strainer (I use an upside-down steamer and it works great).

BIAB is great, but I think a big beer would be pushing it - I think I would have to double mash to do anything over 1.06.
 
I have done BIAB about 5 times and batch sparge about 15. One big benefit of no sparge BIAB is you only have to heat one pot of water. I heat 8 gallons of water to strike temp, add grains, stir, and then wait 1 hour before removing the bag.

With batch sparge I heat strike water, add grain, stir, wait one hour,then heat mash out water, stir, drain, then heat sparge water, stir and drain.

Heating three pots of water versus one is but annoying.

The total water volume is about the same either way so there is no difference is propane cost.

It's just a simplicity thing.

PS. I do both methods because I think both are pretty cool. I love the engineering part of brewing. I have done fly sparge a few times to.
 
1 gallon of water weighs 8.35 pounds.

Grain absorbs about 0.1 gallon per pound.

So a 10# grain bill will absorb about 1 gallon of water and weigh about 18.35# when lifted out of the kettle.

A 20# grain bill absorb about 2 gallons of water and weigh about 36.7# when lifted out of the kettle.

My grain bills are usually 10-15# so I haven't had a problem lifting the bag without a pulley.
 
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