Brew Rig Ideas?

I'm going to have a bit of money coming in, and am trying to determine what type of brew rig I ideally want to have. My current setup is as follows:

60qt Boil Kettle / Strike Water Kettle (with valve / glass / themom)
60qt Cooler Mash Tun
Kick A Banjo Burner (on loan now, but buying my own ASAP)
Immersion Chiller
Glass Carboys
Corny Keg Rig

Ideally I want to have a 10g batch rig. It doesn't have to be fully automated, though some automation would be nice. I don't think I want to bother with a RIMS or HERMS system, as frankly, I think it's a waste from what I know about them, but if you want to try to convince me otherwise... now's the time.

My initial thought is to get 2 more 60qt pots and 2 more banjo burners, get rid of the cooler tun, then upgrade to a CFC or Plate chiller, but I'd like to hear some other thoughts.

So... what do I upgrade? automate? toss out?

No responses? No one has any suggestions?

Maybe my title should have been "Is my beer ruined?"... that always seems to get a response!

This thread has three systems detailed:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/please-vote-quest-ultimate-portable-brewery-127359/

Not brewery per se, but would be helpful:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/yeast-ranch-all-i-need-129681/

Another brewery detailed:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/all-grain-rims-herms-setup-new-box-125310/

one more:
http://blogs.homebrewtalk.com/Boerderij_Kabouter/Boerderij_Kabouters_Suggested_AG_Starter_Rig/

How my brewery design evolved:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/brouwerij-der-boerderij-kabouter-72118/

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If you have any questions or want some help designing a system, just ask. You gave very little info to start with though. How much money? What automation if you do not want a recirc system? How technically inclined are you?

As for the money... not enough for a Sabco, but more than enough for a bucket. I'm not going to say money isn't an object, but I can afford to spend a decent amount if it makes sense to do so. (Still vague, but the best I can do).

As far as automation, maybe some pumps, better temp control... some ways to make the process easier... not sure what else I should be looking for.

I'm an IT guy who used to work in construction... so pretty technically inclined.

The problem is I'm not sure what I'm looking for, so was hoping for suggestions. Maybe the question should be rephrased to "If you currently had this rig and $1000 what would you do?"

Well in that case, I would build the system I am building It is found at the end of the thread titled "Brouwerij Boerderij Kabouter".

My suggestion is to build the rig first then automate as cash comes in and time allows. My above post has about 5-7 different brewery ideas all around your price range that may offer some ideas for you to use.

If you want my build workbook, PM me your email address and I wills end you a copy.

Pretty simple and straightforward... I like it.

So, 3 burners, 3 kettles, 2 pumps, inline chiller and lots of fittings... Am I missing anything? (over simplified I know) How do you control temp in the MLT? Are you just manually adjusting the burners as needed?

I would probably hold off on the tri clamps until I know I'm going to commit to the rig 100%, but otherwise it seems do-able.

You got it. I control everything manual for now and will upgrade as I get money from my budget. I have been collecting parts for about two years and am steadily getting closer to completion.

So if using propane... is there a way to accurately control the temp in the MLT? That's one of the things I'd love to automate. I think if I make a 2 level stand and eliminate a pump, I can probably pull off making this with a fairly low expense.

Going two tier will shave some expense...

I plan to control mash temps with a combined HERMS/RIMS. Step mashes will be done with the direct fired MLT (RIMS) and rest temps will be maintained with the HERMS. Gas solenoids can be easily incorporated to control temps.

I've used water solenoids before, but am more concerned with gas ones. This is the one issue I'm sort of in the dark on. I guess the mash would have to be stirred constantly to avoid localized heating... so basically RIMS or HERMS seems to be at an advantage here. Would it make sense to set up a rotating mash paddle for this purpose, or am I over thinking the whole thing and stupid not to set up a RIMS if I want to automate this?

RIMS just stands for Recirculating Iterative Mash System.... basically you are pumping the wort past a heating element. In this design, you have a burner turned on and are pumping the mash to keep the temps even. It works very well, and doesn't take very long to get the hang of doing it manually. It will be great once it is auto, but it is easy enough for me now.

The other question I have...

Does it make sense to set up a 3 burner system? Or can I accomplish the same thing with 2? The only real reason I see for the 3 burner rig is being able to start one batch while finishing the other. I feel like this could be an add-on later as well.

I'd sort of rather have a high quality 2 burner rig and brew one batch at a time I think. Am I missing anything in my thinking?

You can take out the MLT burner but then you no longer have RIMS capability. You would have to do step mashes with decoction or hot water infusion.

I guess my concern with RIMS is the idea of using a pump unattended. I keep a saltwater tank and have seen too many problems with pumps to trust one with my beer. I figure with a shielded burner and a mechanized mash paddle I can walk away for awhile without worrying about the sparge. (Maybe I should stick to my cooler and stop pulling out my hair thinking about this!)

Someone else feel free to chime in and tell me I'm just out of my mind and over thinking everything... I hate having so many options!

I have the same problem in the supermarket... 10,000 different shampoos to choose from... seriously... too many decisions to make... and don't get me started on Ben and Jerry's flavors or a quality beer store!

I am confused? Do you want a plug and play type rig, where it does things auto for you? In that case the cost will go up quite a bit.

The systems I have posted are all pretty hands on. You will need to manually monitor the temps and control them accordingly. The pumps make all of that much easier, and are easy to use in general. With my system I never have a pump running for much longer than 30 minutes at a time.

I do not use my HERMS option yet, temperature loss int he mash just isn't a problem for me. I lose about 1-2 degrees per hour in my system.

It is worth taking the time to consider how your brew day will go. That is why I draw up step by step schematics so I can visualize and imagine how the brew will go with that particular system. That way you will not be disappointed with what you choose.

All systems have pros and cons, you need to pick which you like best.

Take a look at The Pols system too, I like that one a lot.

I guess aside from the pumps, I'd like to be able to maintain a solid mash temp automatically. I'll be brewing outside year round, and this will be easy during the summer, but constant monitoring and stirring during the winter. I'm all for being hands on, but I'd like that part to be automatic if possible.

This back and forth is actually helping my plan things out quite a bit... it helps to know what's realistic and what might not be.

So you would like to direct heat for step mashes but not use a pump?

You could make a stir system somehow, but to tell you the truth, stirring is a risky way to even out heat in a mash. I used to do this before I got my pumps and you really have to be on top of it and aggressively stirring and turning over the mash to avoid scorching.

Stir systems are nice and people use them, but if you intend to direct heat the mash I would advise against doing it this way. If you are not comfortable with pumps, I would say just stick with a cooler or another very insulated vessel and do infusions or decoctions for step mashing.

Another option that would fit your requirements would be a steam system with an automated stirrer. The programming and DIY would be more involved to automate that system but you can take a look at Yuri's system and FlyGuy's system to learn more about steam.

thedigitale said:

I don't think I want to bother with a RIMS or HERMS system, as frankly, I think it's a waste from what I know about them, but if you want to try to convince me otherwise... now's the time.

Click to expand...

thedigitale said:

No responses? No one has any suggestions?
Maybe my title should have been "Is my beer ruined?"... that always seems to get a response!

Click to expand...

I am so sorry you had to wait two incredibly, unbelievable long hours for a response, but why do you need our help? I mean, you are an expert. Maybe you could help all those long time experienced brewers who have been wasting their time using a RIMS or HERMS system to brew with.

Here you go just copy mine.

Woah. Shiny.

Sawdustguy said:

I am so sorry you had to wait two incredibly, unbelievable long hours for a response,

Click to expand...

First of all... learn what a joke is.

Sawdustguy said:

but why do you need our help? I mean, you are an expert. Maybe you could help all those long time experienced brewers who have been wasting their time using a RIMS or HERMS system to brew with.

Click to expand...

I never said brewing with a RIMS or HERMS system was a waste of time, I said from what I know they seem like a waste... then I went on to say that if someone feels otherwise, they can try to convince me.

I do think that a contantly running pump and heating element seems like a waste, and it's not what I'm looking for, but kept an open mind to suggestions.

Bottom line is, not everyone is going to agree with everything you think is right, and plenty of other people have been brewing for an equally long time without RIMS or HERMS systems.

If you can't take the fact that you might not always be right, don't post in a public forum.

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

Another option that would fit your requirements would be a steam system with an automated stirrer. The programming and DIY would be more involved to automate that system but you can take a look at Yuri's system and FlyGuy's system to learn more about steam.

Click to expand...

I'll check these out... Thanks!

thedigitale said:

I do think that a contantly running pump and heating element seems like a waste, and it's not what I'm looking for, but kept an open mind to suggestions.

Click to expand...

It all depends what you want... A circulating system will give you exact temperature control in your mash with an easy solution. Unless you have a steam kettle and some other very expensive equipment this is the best way yet found to maintain constant temps. I think you are overestimating the complexity of these systems. In a RIMS the element is only on rarely, and in a HERMS the wort just slowly flows around the system such that exact temps are maintained.

If you want to use your stirrer idea, go for it, but I would urge you toward a highly insulated system in that case and just use the stirrer for doughing in and occasional stirring. In my experience it is very easy to get scorched wort direct heating without circulation and you really have to be hands on to control it.

If you don't use step mashes, just skip all of it and use a cooler like you are now.

I brew with a direct fired RIMS. It's not a complex system, it's easy to operate and it's versatile. I've also managed to brew some top notch beer with this system. My next upgrade will be a larger MT. I have in mind a 60 Qt Polarware kettle w/FB. Once I have that bad boy I should be good for awhile anyway.

Get yourself 2 80qt kettles, 3 burners, an 80qt cooler, 60 feet of copper tubing, an old corny keg, a cfc and a pump or two.

Take the copper tube and coil it in the old keg (cut the bottom off first) then mount the copper filled keg to one of the burners. Use this to heat the water quickly. Mount one burner higher then the cooler and 2nd burner so you can gravity feed to the cooler.
Use the cooler for the MLT and if you so want you can use the pump to pump from the MLT thru the copper filled keg as a RIMS.

Pump from the MLT to the 2nd burner and kettle for boil. Then pump from the kettle thru the CFC and into the fermenters.


It's really simple and works great for me doing 10 - 35 gallon batches.

thedigitale said:

...
I never said brewing with a RIMS or HERMS system was a waste of time, I said from what I know they seem like a waste... then I went on to say that if someone feels otherwise, they can try to convince me.
...

If you can't take the fact that you might not always be right, don't post in a public forum.

Click to expand...

This is a *****y attitude and it will keep a lot of people disinterested in helping you out.