Designing Dark Hoppy Ales
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jharres
Well-Known Member
I would start with a brown ale, as they tend to be smooth, malty and nutty. I think that would make a good offset to the hop bite and flavor. I think the dark malts in the robust porter would be a little too bitter (for lack of a better term) to make a good offset for the hop bite, same with a black ale.
blue800
Well-Known Member
We have a microbrewery up here that has an "india dark ale" (Phillips brewing http://phillipsbeer.com/craft-beers/ : Black Toque") Its a dark brown ale with an IPA hop regime. One of my favorites. I plan on trying to clone it at some point.
Eastside Brewer
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I started with making IPA's and IIPA's just trying to find the hop threshold of "undrinkably too much hops". Due to the law of diminishing returns, I believe that you reach a point when you just can't get it any hoppier. That being said, this course naturally led me to try an imperial brown and it came out quite nice. Here's what I did for a 6 gal. batch;
8# marris otter 2row
4# us 2row
.75# aromatic
.75# special roast
.75# chrystal 120
.50# cara pils
.50# chrystal 10
.50# choc.
.25 warrior 60 min.
.25 columbus 60 min.
.50 cenn 30 min.
.50 cascade 30 min.
1.0 cenn 10 min.
2.0 cascade 10 min.
1.0 columbus 5 min.
Added 1 # light brown sugar to boil for 10 min.
WL 002 English ale in 2000ml starter
dry hop with 2.0 oz. of Cenn. and 1 oz. of palo santo wood chips.
I will have this beer out of secondary and in keg in a couple of days, so we will see what we have?
Eastside
8# marris otter 2row
4# us 2row
.75# aromatic
.75# special roast
.75# chrystal 120
.50# cara pils
.50# chrystal 10
.50# choc.
.25 warrior 60 min.
.25 columbus 60 min.
.50 cenn 30 min.
.50 cascade 30 min.
1.0 cenn 10 min.
2.0 cascade 10 min.
1.0 columbus 5 min.
Added 1 # light brown sugar to boil for 10 min.
WL 002 English ale in 2000ml starter
dry hop with 2.0 oz. of Cenn. and 1 oz. of palo santo wood chips.
I will have this beer out of secondary and in keg in a couple of days, so we will see what we have?
Eastside
EdWort
Well-Known Member
I brewed this recipe from my All Grain Mentor years ago. It rocks. I called it a Texas Tan.
Mash at 154 and pitch with a starter of WLP051
Mash at 154 and pitch with a starter of WLP051
I've tried a few black ales lately, and they were basically just pale ales with patent. I have been tossing this around in my head for a couple weeks, wondering what the point of the black ales was, and it seems to be more novelty than substance. And it seemed to be a waste...
I was thinking of making a black ale that was not 'stouty'; not really heavy bodied, and with more than a casual toss of hops. A black that didn't have a heavy coffee and chocolate taste, but that had the punch of a premium American IPA. Along the lines of a nutbrown, but dark and heavily DH'ed.
It would appear that you are more advanced into your consideration of this approach, so what are you thinking of doing?
I was thinking of making a black ale that was not 'stouty'; not really heavy bodied, and with more than a casual toss of hops. A black that didn't have a heavy coffee and chocolate taste, but that had the punch of a premium American IPA. Along the lines of a nutbrown, but dark and heavily DH'ed.
It would appear that you are more advanced into your consideration of this approach, so what are you thinking of doing?
EdWort
Well-Known Member
That's exactly what the recipe I posted above does.
big supper
Well-Known Member
Search for the Stone XIth anniversary clone. It's Good!!
OP
OP
david_42
Well-Known Member
Saw this in the OBC discussions, via brewnews:
The IBU range is probably too wide and needs to be reduced at the high-end. Note that " not heavy like a porter or stout" points it towards a Brown.
The IBU range is probably too wide and needs to be reduced at the high-end. Note that " not heavy like a porter or stout" points it towards a Brown.
TerapinChef
Well-Known Member
What about a dark hoppy lager?
I'd start with a hoppy beer (IPA) and try to lend some roastiness to it...rather than start with a roasty beer and just kick up the hop profile.
May sub out some of the base malt with 1/2 pound of chocolate, 1/2 pound of roast barley and 1/4 pound of black patent.
Maybe back off a bit on the bittering hops since you've got the bite of the roasted malt and keep the hop additions late in the boil so the aroma/flavor come through the roast.
May sub out some of the base malt with 1/2 pound of chocolate, 1/2 pound of roast barley and 1/4 pound of black patent.
Maybe back off a bit on the bittering hops since you've got the bite of the roasted malt and keep the hop additions late in the boil so the aroma/flavor come through the roast.
wildwest450
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Perhaps a candidate for a fwh??
I would go for the Dusseldorf Sticke Alt beer. Just brewed one on Sat from Dorst's book on the Alt style. It gets most of it's color from Munich and Caramel Malt not your roasted malts. I did use a little chocalte malt for color but using too much gives it the roasted malt character that you don't want in a alt. The bulk of the grain bill is still about 50 percent pils malt. This is one of my favorite german ale beers, it has a nice malty background with a good dose of bittering, flavor and aroma hops. I used a total of 7 ozs of hops in a 11 gal recipe. It's fermenting away right now at about 62 degrees.
zoebisch01
Well-Known Member
I'd go for a Black Ale. The reason being this will open up the range of what hops will work. I have done lots of dark hoppy Ales, some have come off way better than others. The thing that I have found is you can get some odd flavor combinations with some of the dark malts and any of the C type hops (sometimes this works, other times it doesn't). Personally, if I do another attempt a Black Ale or better yet a Lager, something akin to Shwartzbier because the flavor is more neutral. I have a Porter on now, and I used my Cascades. It is ok but for this particular recipe I will do it with something like Fuggles next. I made a really dark beer once with extreme amounts of Summit (I think it was summit), Cascade and Simcoe. It worked very well.
I have not designed a hoppy dark ale, per se, but I did just brew one. I brewed Janet's Brown Ale, a Mike McDole recipe that he shared on the Jamil Show. I have it dry hopping right now, and it is an excellent beer. This beer has been brewed by a few other members here (in various forms) and has been very successful. I think one of the keys is to take into account the bitterness from the darker malts, the hop flavor needs to support that bitterness too.
Last summer the Clybourn Ave. Goose Island brew pub had a small batch "mistake stout" on draft where they claimed they were brewed their regular brewpub shout, but accidentally added cascades early in the boil, so the brew master said F-it i'll dry hop it with cascades too.
It was awesome.
I'm going to try and re-create it by taking a standard 5gal dry stout recipe (such as JZ's) and adding .5oz cascades at 45min and dryhopping with another .5oz dry hopping in secondary for 7days.
It was awesome.
I'm going to try and re-create it by taking a standard 5gal dry stout recipe (such as JZ's) and adding .5oz cascades at 45min and dryhopping with another .5oz dry hopping in secondary for 7days.
boodyrischous
Well-Known Member
We crossed a winter warmer with a baltic porter. After our hop schedule (which included 4 oz for a 5 gal batch), it is closest to a robust porter. For us, it was all about choosing the right hops. Our is very roasty, but the hops lend a good bitterness and flavor. We have also done batches with bitter orange peel, which intensified everything the hops contributed.
count barleywine
Well-Known Member
I love hoppy stouts, and recently, for the first time, had Sierra Nevada stout, perfection. Maybe a stout recipe with some carafa in place of a portion of the roasted grains, a big late hop addition and some dry hoppers. Janet's Brown also sounds delicious, I may do that one next batch.
twelfthman01
Active Member
to the OP,
Give the recipe Ed posted a try... the author of the recipe has turned out some great beers - he really knows what he's doing. I've had some of them first hand, trust me!
Give the recipe Ed posted a try... the author of the recipe has turned out some great beers - he really knows what he's doing. I've had some of them first hand, trust me!
In case you are interested here is the Sticke Alt recipe I made based on Dorst Alt series book.
Sticke Alt 11 gals 90 min boil
Best Pils Malt 9 lbs
Best Munich I 2 1/2 lbs
Best Munich II 4 lbs
Best Cara Pils 1 lb
H.B. Med Crystal 5 lbs
H.B. Choc 1/2 lb
Step Mash
30 mins @ 122
15 mins @ 144
15 mins @ 156
10 mins @ 170
Bittering Hop 24.6 HBU Perle leaf 60 mins
Flavor 1 1/2 oz Mt. Hood leaf 10 mins
Aroma 2 1/2 oz Mt. Hood leaf put in right after turning burner off
Wyeast 1007 German Ale 1 gal starter
Burton Salts 2 tea for 90 mins
Irish Moss 2 tea last 15 mins
O.G. 1.060
T.G. Let you know in about two weeks
Sticke Alt 11 gals 90 min boil
Best Pils Malt 9 lbs
Best Munich I 2 1/2 lbs
Best Munich II 4 lbs
Best Cara Pils 1 lb
H.B. Med Crystal 5 lbs
H.B. Choc 1/2 lb
Step Mash
30 mins @ 122
15 mins @ 144
15 mins @ 156
10 mins @ 170
Bittering Hop 24.6 HBU Perle leaf 60 mins
Flavor 1 1/2 oz Mt. Hood leaf 10 mins
Aroma 2 1/2 oz Mt. Hood leaf put in right after turning burner off
Wyeast 1007 German Ale 1 gal starter
Burton Salts 2 tea for 90 mins
Irish Moss 2 tea last 15 mins
O.G. 1.060
T.G. Let you know in about two weeks
carl spakler
Well-Known Member
I made an Indian Brown, modeled after the DFH version, last spring. I was happy how it came out, though if I were to do it again I might up the aroma hop level a bit. Overall a tasty beverage! 
3 lbs English 2-row pale
1.25 Crystal 60
.5 English Chocolate
.5 Biscuit
3.3 lbs LME
1 lb DME
1 ounce galena (11%) @ 60 minutes
1 ounce goldings (5%) @ 3 minutes
British Ale yeast
3 lbs English 2-row pale
1.25 Crystal 60
.5 English Chocolate
.5 Biscuit
3.3 lbs LME
1 lb DME
1 ounce galena (11%) @ 60 minutes
1 ounce goldings (5%) @ 3 minutes
British Ale yeast
OP
OP
david_42
Well-Known Member
I haven't tried any of these yet, but this is a list of commercial beers that could be classified in the style:
Rogue Black Brutal
Phllips Black Toque
Barley Brown's Turmoil
Walking Man Big Black Homo
Pelican Bad Santa
New Holland Black Hatter
Laughing Dog Dogzilla
I'm thinking about trying one based on my Church of Chocolate brown. Maybe using Summit for aroma.
Rogue Black Brutal
Phllips Black Toque
Barley Brown's Turmoil
Walking Man Big Black Homo
Pelican Bad Santa
New Holland Black Hatter
Laughing Dog Dogzilla
I'm thinking about trying one based on my Church of Chocolate brown. Maybe using Summit for aroma.
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