Sanitation?

I'm considering sanitizers to use. I don't want to use a sodium percarbonate based sanitizer (oxyclean, any "oxygen" powder crap) because it's rather ineffective at actually sanitizing.

My options seem to be bleach and iodine. Bleach will work great of course (clorox!), but requires long soaking for effectiveness. Iodine will also work, very quickly in fact, and probably more effectively; while bleach reacts with stuff and breaks it down (i.e. slowly gets consumed), iodine is just friggin' toxic and simply needs to be present in the environment at a given concentration, and not for very long at all!

I'm looking at Iodophor... should be workable?

I use StarSan. It's no rinse and sanitizes in one minute of contact.

Super easy to use. Messure the 1 oz of Star San out, mix with 5 gallons water in carboy. Let sit and then dump it out into a bucket for sanitizing other equipment.

Rack onto the foam. No fuss, no muss, no rinsing.

mmb said:

I use StarSan. It's no rinse and sanitizes in one minute of contact.

Super easy to use. Messure the 1 oz of Star San out, mix with 5 gallons water in carboy. Let sit and then dump it out into a bucket for sanitizing other equipment.

Rack onto the foam. No fuss, no muss, no rinsing.

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What he said.

You are correct, Oxyclean is not a santizer- but a damn good brewery cleaner. Hot water and Oxyclean will delabel bottles and get rid of stubborn dried krauzen.

I'm a big fan of Star San. It's a no-rinse (under the correct dilution) acid based 'wet' sanitizer. It can be kept for months when covered and I keep a spray bottle on hand for sanitizing airlocks, etc.

Iodophor is also very popular and you can buy concentrate by the gallon which might last you a decade or more.

+ 1 for Star-san. I used to use Iodophor, and it works great, but I love Star-san's foaming action, and the fact that I don't have to worry about staining my plastics yellow anymore.

flyangler18 said:

You are correct, Oxyclean is not a santizer- but a damn good brewery cleaner. Hot water and Oxyclean will delabel bottles and get rid of stubborn dried krauzen.

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Hot water and oxyclean will do a hell of a lot. Real sanitization isn't in there but it'll do a lot.

flyangler18 said:

I'm a big fan of Star San. It's a no-rinse (under the correct dilution) acid based 'wet' sanitizer. It can be kept for months when covered and I keep a spray bottle on hand for sanitizing airlocks, etc.

Iodophor is also very popular and you can buy concentrate by the gallon which might last you a decade or more.

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Star San I'm hearing a lot... it's an acid, which I'm particularly wary about. Acid washing is extremely effective, of course. What kind of acid is it? Acetic? (Vinegar)

Iodophor is iodine in water, so it has to be iodine trichloride (most likely) or potassium iodide; in either case, solution in water separates the ionic bonds. In the case of iodine trichloride, both components exist as gasses at room temperature and the solvent (water) also evaporates off.

http://fivestarchemicals.com/tech/starsan.pdf

Star San is a well-known food grade sanitizer.

bluefoxicy said:

Star San I'm hearing a lot... it's an acid, which I'm particularly wary about. Acid washing is extremely effective, of course. What kind of acid is it? Acetic? (Vinegar)

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Star San is 15% Dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid, 50% phosphoric acid, 35% inert ingredients.

Mix 1 ounce in 5 gallons of water in a bucket. You can reuse it as long as the ph stays below 3.5. I keep mine around for about 2 months before mixing a new batch. Star San is very cost effective when used this way.

Yes, I was just wondering what's in it. I'm not sure what dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid is...

That data sheet is strange. Rinse acid with water? For concentrated acid we kept 0.1M NaOH or concentrated sodium bicarbonate (baking soda but everyone knows that) solution around because water helps get more hydrogen ions in solution and makes it worse o_o; (Leaving it there is bad though, removing as much as possible with constant water is better than nothing)

So aside from staining plastics, Iodophor works as well as Star San? But Star San is safe to keep in a wash bottle and also won't kill my clothes if it gets on them? Also is Star San in general more dangerous undiluted than undiluted Iodophor? (I don't think I mind concentrated iodine solution on my skin...)

"NOTE TO PHYSICIAN: Probable mucosal damage may contraindicate the use of gastric lavage. Measure against circulatory shock, respiratory depression and convulsion may be needed."

NOTE TO LAYMAN: We really didn't intend that message for you.

You are overthinking it. StarSan is safe, easy to use, and highly effective. I keep 3-5 gallons on hand at all times. I soak equipment, mist surfaces, rinse hands, etc.

Star San comes in a nifty bottle with a built-in dosing cup, so unless you're really clumsy with it, you won't ever touch it in undiluted form accidentally.

bluefoxicy said:

"NOTE TO PHYSICIAN: Probable mucosal damage may contraindicate the use of gastric lavage. Measure against circulatory shock, respiratory depression and convulsion may be needed."

NOTE TO LAYMAN: We really didn't intend that message for you.

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Just don't chug it and you'll be fine...

Seriously though, in diluted form, its safe and effective. You might want to listen to the Basic Brewing Radio broadcast of 3/29/07. Its an interview with the maker of Star San, and he discusses all its uses and properties. An amazing fact about Star San is that any residual or foam you get in your beer breaks down into yeast nutrient. Star San is also septic-safe, Iodophore is not.

I guess I'll go with it then. There's probably a base compound formed during brewing that'll neutralize the dismal amounts of whatever's left behind anyway; and if not, well, water generally ionizes on its own and will probably take care of it.

Kay thanks.

Beerthoven said:

An amazing fact about Star San is that any residual or foam you get in your beer breaks down into yeast nutrient.

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Sold. It adds something I want, and has no negative impact. Frame this one, it's the most useful piece of information in this thread.

Edit: Can I use this stuff in airlocks?

Sure, you can use it in airlocks if you want. I generally use vodka in airlocks, but just habit really.

bluefoxicy said:

Can I use this stuff in airlocks?

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Yes, that's what I do.

Off topic, but your avatar (with the freaking bright colors) reminds me of the ad this company had up...

http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/200808/errord/orangefull.png

Once you mix Star San ... how long is it good for?
For Example I hear people here talk about a spray bottle? How long does it "stay effective"? If I leave 5 gallons mixed up ... can I use it later?

T

bluefoxicy said:

Off topic, but your avatar (with the freaking bright colors) reminds me of the ad this company had up...

http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/200808/errord/orangefull.png

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LOL, my avatar is kinda bright, isn't it?

Its called "Beer Drinkers", by Pavel Rehurek. I hope he doesn't mind me using it!

I use bulk concentrated Iodine dairy sanitizer from Tractor Supply company. I pay 14.95 for a gallon.

What type of container are you guys using to store your mixed Star San?

What type of container are you guys using to store your mixed Star San?

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I use a spare cooler in the basement. All my gear goes in there to be sanitized.

Revvy said:

I use bulk concentrated Iodine dairy sanitizer from Tractor Supply company. I pay 14.95 for a gallon.

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I almost picked that up the other day while buying grain storage containers.

"TeatDip"

hehehehe

mmb said:

I almost picked that up the other day while buying grain storage containers.

"TeatDip"

hehehehe

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Even funnier, I've seen it listed as nipple dip as well....

They didn't have that one there, when I went shopping, they had the other one on the site, the ammonia based, which I don't know if that is usualbe, I ended up with Dionne Gentle Iodine, it's just like iodophor, except without an anti foaming agent. Sometimes I add a drop of fermcap if I don't want to wait for the foam to subside.

MikeG said:

What type of container are you guys using to store your mixed Star San?

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I use a bucket with a lid that locks closed. It used to hold pool chlorine.

MikeG said:

What type of container are you guys using to store your mixed Star San?

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Gallon "milk jug" that distilled water comes in. 4.9 ml StarSan /Gallon I measure the starsan with a syringe. I've also read that StarSan keeps longer when made with distilled water.

MikeG said:

What type of container are you guys using to store your mixed Star San?

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You mean I can't just keep it in the bottling bucket, and ditch it in the sink at the last minute? :3

I keep mine in spare carboys. As long as the pH stays low, you can reuse it indefinately. I run mine through a few brew cycles then I throw it out and make up another 5 gallons. As far as it being safe, most of that safety language is just CYA verbiage. Charlie Talley of 5 Star has drank Starsan to prove it's safe to use.

Brewsmith said:

I keep mine in spare carboys. As long as the pH stays low, you can reuse it indefinately. I run mine through a few brew cycles then I throw it out and make up another 5 gallons. As far as it being safe, most of that safety language is just CYA verbiage. Charlie Talley of 5 Star has drank Starsan to prove it's safe to use.

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I like this idea. I've tried to come up with a space-efficient way to store it, and keeping it in the bottling bucket in my closet makes me nervous due to the spigot on the bottom. I think I'll start using this method!

I keep my starsan in a 5 gallon home depot bucket. I also use the bucket to fill a spray bottle.

I make a growler full at a time. You need to buy a syringe (the type to measure baby medicine) from the pharmacy to measure this accurately though.

BTW: to the OP.

You need to clean and sanitize.
Oxyclean and the like are fine cleaners.
One the items are clean Iodophor or Starsan are great sanitizers.

olllllo said:

BTW: to the OP.

You need to clean and sanitize.
Oxyclean and the like are fine cleaners.
One the items are clean Iodophor or Starsan are great sanitizers.

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Sage advice.