Its time to dispell the myths, through testing

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huntingohio

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I have read for years that mead has to be aged 1 year to be drinkable, tastes like solvent when you and blah blah blah. I've always thought it was a bunch of hooey and through recent tests have disproved this.
Before you go flaming and saying "BUT THIS FAMOUS AUTHOR SAYS IT SO IT MUST BE!!" OR "DONT ROCK THE BOAT, CHANGE MAKES ME NERVOUS", test it, test it again, then test it a third time. It's science people not mythos


In beer making yeast heath and temperature control are considered essential. I have found in mead making, this is generally not the case. When beer is fermented to high of a temp or the yeast are improperly stressed its said to have esters and solvent alcohol....... well that sounds familiar.

So I proposed the theory to myself, improper temperature control and poor yeast health may be why mead needs aged for so so long.

I set about researching this, as it turns out honey is very nutrient poor for yeast, as anyone knows if you eat improperly, your not very productive and have general poor health. This is fixed through staggered nutrient addition.

I also thought that as with beer [it is yeast working in both], the esters and harsh alcohol could be a result of poor temp. control. Well this could be simply fixed by fermenting in a temperature stable environment the mid to low temp. range of the yeast.

So the experiment is set:
3 different meads, all made with wally world brand clover honey [very poor honey], all the same standard gravity of 1.100, all the same cheap yeast [red star, cote de blanc]

batch 001 [control]- mixed honey and water to 1.100, sprinkled dry yeast on top, left to ferment in kitchen cupboard temperature range of 75-60 degrees f. let it go don’t touch it or open it.

batch 002 [yeast health] mixed honey and water to 1.100. Made yeast starter 2 days prior by first re hydrating yeast then pitching into a low to medium gravity solution[1.030]of honey, water, and first addition of yeast nutrient. By brew day they yeast where happy and i had approximately 24 oz of starter slurry to pitch. This batch was left to ferment in the cupboard next to batch001

batch 002 [yeast health and temp control] same exact thing as batch 002 but it was fermented in my home made fermentation cooler {temp range of 59-62, during primary fermentation]

For the experiment batches 002 and 003 were feed a staggered nutrient addition on standard schedule. They were also stirred as suggested by Kurt stock until 1/3 sugar break. Batch 001 was left to do its thing naturally.

24 hour report- batches one and two took off and airlock activity was seen in less than 24 hours. Batch 001 as expected did not’t show up too much
72 hour report- batches 002 and 003 are going like a freight train, 001 has shown up to the party but notedly much more sluggish than its sibling batches,

14 day report [forgot to write down the 7 day report, and as this is a science experiment I refuse to speculate] batches 002 and 003 are done with primary fermentation 001 seems to be nearing fermentation end as airlock activity has sown considerably[ confirmed by gravity reading of1.025]

30 day report all batches have finished and are within a 5 point margin of error of 1.010., racking to secondary and adding of bentonite in 7 days.

37 day report all batches are stabilized and fined with the same amount of ingredients within a 1 gram margin of error.
day 40 all batches are racked and tasted
001- solvent heavy alcohol, burns like jet fuel. Taste of the honey is nearly un noticeable over the burn.
002-alcohol burn is less pronounced but still quite could choke down the whole 4 oz sample. honey flavor is there, not hugely pronounced bet there.
003- very very little alcoholic bite, nearly un-remarkably so. Honey taste is prevalent, very straight forward on the tongue. sweetness is even noticeable. Finished my 4 oz sample easily.

These same notes were confirmed by 2 other tasters on that same day.
All batches could have used some acid blend, something else to boost there flavor as the honey was poor in quality.
Over all the experiment was a success going to recreate the experiment soon and re verify the results for scientific purposes.

If one wants to know what became of batches 001 and 002 they are currently aging.. in the sewage treatment plant. Bottles are to expensive at my local shop to tie up with poor quality mead.
 
While it may not be accurate that all mead needs to be aged 1+ years, I think there is a consensus that most, if not all, mead tastes better with age.

And you're right about temperature. The problem is that most hobbyists don't have temp control capabilities, due to cost, no space, etc.

So, it may not be necessary, but it isn't bad advice to age mead a while. Perhaps it's better to say, "age it for as long as you're willing to wait."
 
Cool experiment.
I've never made mead, but want to.
Now I have additional information to work with.
 
While it may not be accurate that all mead needs to be aged 1+ years, I think there is a consensus that most, if not all, mead tastes better with age.

And you're right about temperature. The problem is that most hobbyists don't have temp control capabilities, due to cost, no space, etc.

So, it may not be necessary, but it isn't bad advice to age mead a while. Perhaps it's better to say, "age it for as long as you're willing to wait."

I absolutely agree
Most meads will improve with age, a certain sweetness seems to come back to them after a longer aging period and flavors seem to get stronger.

This is more or less a kind of mannifesto to people curious about mead but keep getting turned off by "masters of the craft" saying you need to age it before its drinkable.

My goal though was to make a table mead that was completely drinkable right after clearing and bottling. I feel i have succeded as i have already shared a bottle with a few friends who enjoyed it {although i found it to be lacking due to the low quality honey].

Notes that I should add
fermentation chamber is simply a yeti cooler and frozen water bottles cooling it down.... it isnt the most stable way to do it but it works suprisingly well. only have to change ice bottles every 16 hours.
My nutrients were yeast husks, and dap, simple easy and cheap
 
Now see, from my POV, while its not a bad attempt at experimentation at all, you would have been better served using yeast with more data available about it......which pretty much counts out any except that Lallemand ranges (Lalvin, Uvaferm etc) as the publish better data than any other maker. Likewise the same with nutrients i.e. Fermaidk or FermaidO, rehydrating the yeast with GoFerm etc.

This would have allowed you to work out YAN requirements and dose accordingly.

Plus the results would have been more comparable.

Additionally any aging is more consistent if done in bulk.

Its wrong to compare mead making to beer making as the methods and techniques are so different despite the parallels. Making wine is a much closer comparison.

A waste to have dumped some of the batches as you now dont have any comparison.

You also didn't identify whether the rocket fuel attributes were more like just an alcohol hot sort of after taste or more like fusels. Alcohol hot mellows relatively quickly fusels can take a long time, if ever to mellow.

As for ageing, thats down to personal preference, some mead types can be ready to drink reasonably quickly like melomels, cysers and pyments. Whereas traditionals can take longer depending on the honey, nutrition and other fermentation management, residual sugars, resulting % ABV and any acid, tannin or back sweetening carried out....

A minimum aging of 6 months from the end of fermenting, which can include the clearing time if you're not gonna hit the batch with finings. ..
 
There was a BTV episode about mead where the guy dispelled the aging requirement thing (at least to a degree). I think the ABV has a lot to do with aging recommendations. My first batch of JAOM has just over two years on it and I've been meaning to uncork it. I'm kind of scared of the stuff though since the first bottle I drank had me stumbling in front of the house babbling to the neighbors :)
 
in repsonse to fat bloke [love the name btw]
I intentionally didn't use some of my favorite yeasts like d47 or ec-1118, I wanted to use a cheap yeast, that I didnt have information on. This made me solely focus on the basics of yeast heath [proper nutrition and good cell health before being put into a super high gravity must], as opposed to what i know it reccomended.
I equate it to beer, more specifically big beers. When you brew a big beer you want super healthy yeast. The high gravity of big beers can harm the cell walls stressing the yeast. When we do that we make large starters, and usually step feed to prepare the yeast.
Mead and beer may be different things but yeast are yeast and do have alot of the same reqirements regaurdless of what they are making into a drink for us.

The tastes where more than just alcohol hot, they are fussels. It had that solventy taste on top of being hot. The loss of these 2 gallons is no big loss, I have to pay a stupid amount of money for wine bottles so it was worth more to dump them and start new batches.

Should also add that these are only one gallon batches... theres no way id dump 10 gallons of mead
 
I've made what is basically called mead. Although it seems I'm very much a novice when it comes to making mead.

I boil water and honey then let it cool to about 110-105*f. Add yeast (I've been using regular redstar bread yeast) after a fermentation period of two weeks I drink it after one day of chilling in my fridge.

The taste of my mead comes out as sweet with a mild honey flavor that finishes dry.

The only prob with my mead, is that it can only be served cold having it warm and it will taste very solvent like.

So try your solvent like mead cold. Let it chill down in your fridge and taste it then. I havnt tried aging it yet. That was going to be my next batch.
 
I forgot to add onto the end. I have been making my mead for a few years now and every one I've given it to has liked it as un-aged and chilled.
 
@ huntingohio - fair enough, that makes sense.

My last experiment with yeast was about 5 or 6 years ago. I just used all the same ingredients and method, but one gallon had EC-1118, one had K1-V1116 and the other had 71B-1122.

Once they were all clear, yet still young, my favourite was the 71B batch which wasn't bad at all. The EC-1118 was the most bland, but I didn't know about it's habit of blowing so much of the aromatics and more subtle flavouring elements straight out the airlock. The K1V batch was just, well, rough tasting when still fresh off the lees. 3 or 4 months later, the 71B and EC-1118 hadn't changed very much, but the K1V had changed out of all recognition. It was marvellous.

My efforts at "testing" were very, very basic and unscientific. But I learned which yeast was likely to be my favourite, at least for traditionals - until I discovered D21, which is my number 1 for trads followed by K1V.

@ ocaiwa - there's nothing basically wrong in your method, other than you should try a batch but just boil the water not the honey, or get the water in a bucket that you can cover with a fine weave cloth, then put a campden tablet or two into it and leave it for 24 or even 48 hours - as it helps too shift any chlorine that's often added by utility companies - or try reverse osmosis or distilled water.

Even if the honey is crystalised, you can just weigh it out and mix it with the water and leave it covered for a day or so, the honey basically melts into it so you might have to stir it a bit, but not much. Then nuke some of the bread yeast in the microwave, say a teaspoon of yeast in 2 or 3 ounces of water. The microwave will kill it off and when it's cooled down, it can be added to honey and water mix, before you pitch the yeast.

It's feasible that the slight off flavour you allude to, is from stressed yeast as just fermentable sugars isn't really enough for them. They like some nitrogen, folic acid, B1 vitamin etc, all of which can be found in boiled bread yeast (the active yeast, are cannibals). Then just continue as you are.

Yes, some would say that you're making it with very poor technique, but I say that if you enjoy the results, then go with it. My idea might help, it certainly would help the yeast some. As it would be a bit less hassle if the batch was able to be drunk at room temp etc, because you're just masking some of the taste by chilling (and in the earliest days of mead, they wouldn't have had refrigeration so it would have likely been drunk at ambient temps).....
 
I would be very interested to see the tasting responses of someone who did NOT know the differences between the three samples.

Want to do science? BLIND YOUR TEST.
 
IME. the OP's tests have very little grounds for use with actual batches of mead. Or at least with those I've made to date. I made three batches in 2010. One was a blackberry melomel the other two were traditional batches. I bottled up two batches (one of the traditional and the melomel) after about 6-8 months from pitching. The melomel wasn't good at that time. 1-1/2 years later, it's significantly better. I also left the second traditional batch in bulk for about a year. That included over a month on oak cubes. That part was significantly better than the batch bottled earlier. The melomel went to 14%, didn't finish dry (used D47) and the traditional batches both used EC-1118 and also didn't finish dry. Even at over 1-1/2 years from mixing, the traditional batches had a bit of an edge to them. That has pretty much gone away once we hit the two year mark (from mix/yeast pitching).

I also agree with fatbloke about how making mead is more akin to making wine, NOT brewing beer. As with making wine, a LOT of how it comes out has to do with what you use when you make it. Using cheap/crappy honey will not produce a good mead.

BTW, just because you like your low OG meads young and cold, doesn't mean that the aging 'myth' is dispelled at all. Had you not dumped the two batches, you could have seen how they developed over time. IMO, you might as well have not made them at all.

IME, making great mead isn't for those who want something in their glass fast. You can make ok mead, with a low ABV, faster. Doesn't mean it's going to be better than a batch that's been given the amount of time it needs to become great.

Maybe if the OP did some blind testing, and documented flavor differences over several months (12-24), where others provided the blind tasting. I do agree with devianttouch that the tasting should be done where those sampling have NO idea which batch they are tasting. Otherwise, it's all bunk IMO.
 
I missed the part about using craptastic honey, thought this was a serious thread! You probably just showed you can quickly ferment high fructose corn syrup. WVMJ

Originally Posted by WVMJ View Post
Read my posts, I keep saying the same thing, keep the yeast happy, give it nutrients, add acid blend to create the correct fermentation enviornment, also dont overload it at the start with to much honey and step feed if you want to boost the alcohol. Our melomels are ready as soon as they clear but we do age them about a year or until I need the carboy for the next seasons batch. I would save your honey and not waste it on future experiments and just adopt your best results and go from there. WVMJ
 
Read my posts, I keep saying the same thing, keep the yeast happy, give it nutrients, add acid blend to create the correct fermentation enviornment, also dont overload it at the start with to much honey and step feed if you want to boost the alcohol. Our melomels are ready as soon as they clear but we do age them about a year or until I need the carboy for the next seasons batch. I would save your honey and not waste it on future experiments and just adopt your best results and go from there. WVMJ

You also forgot to say don't use EC1118 or champagne yeast. ;)
 
Missed the part about craptastic honey, thought this was a serious thread. WVMJ


I use EC1118, K!V1116 and Pastuer Red all the time, depends on what we want in the end. We also add a lot of fruit to our melomels so loosing a little fragrance isnt hard to overcome. If hunter would have used a standard mead yeast and bottled them up to taste later it would have been a better long term experiment but that doesnt seem to be his goal, the goal was early drinking of mead. My meads are drinkable young, but after a year, and 5 years + they get better, even the EC1118 :) WVMJ
 
I use EC1118, K!V1116 and Pastuer Red all the time, depends on what we want in the end. We also add a lot of fruit to our melomels so loosing a little fragrance isnt hard to overcome. If hunter would have used a standard mead yeast and bottled them up to taste later it would have been a better long term experiment but that doesnt seem to be his goal, the goal was early drinking of mead. My meads are drinkable young, but after a year, and 5 years + they get better, even the EC1118 :) WVMJ

I actually agree with you. :eek: :D

My blackberry melomel (my very first, and only so far) was clear and in bottles early. I just didn't know enough about how blackberries work in a melomel to know how long it would take before it became really good. I used enough fruit during the process to retain color and flavors. It just needed time to mature and become more. I gave a bottle to the owner of the LHBS to get his input on it. He loved it, so I gave him a bigger bottle (first was a 375ml, second was a 750ml) to enjoy. He's also enjoyed the other meads I've given him. The mocha madness surprised him with how good it was (not a flavor combo he would have thought of using).

Personally, I'm letting all my batches of mead go at least a year before I bottle them up. I'm sure they've cleared more than enough before then, but I have no issue with giving them time. I have one that I wasn't that impressed with several months back. I'll be aging it with some MM46 oak pieces for a while to see what that does. :D IMO/IME, as long as you start with at least decent honey (better is better of course) you'll get at least a decent mead. IF you treat it right early on. If you give it enough time, almost any mead can become really good (unless you screw the pooch on it). I've also found that if you either give a batch enough honey (either stepped or all up front) even using EC-1118 will produce a great mead. Just don't let it go to dry and expect to have much there. Of course, proper yeast selection is a rather important part of making a mead (as it is with wines and brewing beer). Just tossing any old strain in, due to price, will give you an unknown result. At best it will be ok to good. At worst you'll get something you cannot drink.

Pretty sure we've debunked the OP's "dispell the myth" thoughts. :D
 
Ok, from what I saw of your experiment basis. All three are good methods but it is generally agreed that a few things can help the taste of mead a lot.

1. From what I read, step nutrients are a must. I haven't done it yet but I find good results with my current methods.

2. Making a yeast starter is a neccessary arangement. Me I just mix the yeast starter up when I begin my processes. First thing I do, by the time I toss the yeast it is about 1/2 hr later.

3. temp control is good. Generally I have found that the meads that I do in the winter more tasty. My brew room is about 55-62 degrees without any help. But if you narrow your temp variance to 50% range of what the yeast goes for you should be fine.

I also find that oaking makes a mead drinkable sooner.

Given that, I still need to wait 6-8 months after bottling (I bottle age) before drinking. I have found that it is neccessary. Many times I have opened up a mead bottle too early and got poor results, especially prominent in Melomels due to the fact that the fruit flavor takes some time for the fruit flavor to come back.

Mostly when the advice to be patient and let it age for at least 6 months if not a year it is not meant to be discoraging to the nebie brewer. Most brewers love to hear someone starting brewing. It is not a myth that wine and mead needs to age, indeed mead has more in common with wine than beer but I consider it an entirely different brew process than either. You really can't equate them. Mead takes techniques from both beer and wine.

This fall I plan on doing an experiment of step nutrients vs no step nutrients and seeing the difference. I did one with oak and no oak and the answer on that was difinitively Oak. The oaked came out less harsh and less bite. I then did a test with the three types of oak. Light, Medium, Heavy. And found the taste difference so that I can match the oak toast level with the type of brew I want. Light fruity Melomels need light toast. A robust taste yet still sweet medium toast. A less sweet more scotchy or smoky taste use heavy toast oak. I did not do a test with different types of oaks. Hungarian, French, American are the most common.

So really, as a mead maker, you develop better and better brew through your care and processes.

In my development, I plan on learning about what different processes and ingredients do what and then use that knowledge to tailor the taste that I want and refine it. That's the fun of brewing.

So, your experiment is interesting but I don't feel that the batches were really different enough to judge if you can make an ageless mead. Sure it's possible but at what cost.

Hope your next experiment goes well.

Matrix
 
From what I have seen, experienced, and read it is not a question of does my mead need to age. We are looking more at the fact that aging makes it better.

I do not deny that your experiment has shown the importance of temperature control and step feeding. However if you browse the forum, you will notice that the same members that encourage aging your mead will also be the ones encourage the use of nutrients and temperature control. The experiment was not a waste of time, it was not done poorly, and it is nice to see people still running experiments. The problem was the conclusion you came up with. No myths were dispelled, aging your mead is still a good idea. Some meads, despite proper temperature control, yeast nutrients, acid management, using good quality honey, keeping the lees to a minimum, and being careful with all other factors, will still require aging before it can be properly enjoyed.

Yes, HBT patrons have said that 2 months is not enough time to brew good mead for a wedding/anniversary/birthday. This is meant to discourage potential mead makers, but when a brand new mead maker is looking for a fast and good mead ready is a ridiculously short amount of time, we do not want to see them disappointed by their experience. The chances are that someone new to the art will not be able to pull off a perfect mead that is ready to drink in a short amount of time. If a new brewer goes in with these high expectations for their first mead, something will almost certainly go wrong. Did your first brew go exactly as you planned? (if it did, you are one of the very lucky few) Even if the mead is drinkable in 2 months, it will probably be 100 times better, 6 months, 1 year, and 2 years later. No new brewer should try to make a fast ready to drink mead. It takes experience and hard work as your experiment shows.

The main reasoning I have heard for aging your mead has been when people have complained that it doesn’t taste good. With mead, aging fixes most flavor issue (not all, but most). It can help an inexperienced mead maker salvage a less pleasant brew, it can help clam a wild mead with a high ABV, and it can help bring back some of the desired flavors that the brewer was striving for.

Please, keep experimenting, but be careful with your conclusions. And remember, that if you are going to contest a wide held belief like aging your mead, try comparing your young mead to an aged version of the same mead. If you kept those “hot” meads around for a year, they may have been phenomenal. Another suggestion, try not drawing large encompassing conclusions like “you don’t need to age mead” based off of such a small scale experiment. There are so many factors you did not look at like ABV, different recipes/ingredients, different honeys, and personal tastes of many other people.

I am not trying to criticize or discourage you, I am just trying to share some knowledge.

Good luck with your future brews and experiments.
 
I am no expert at making mead. I would like to say, however that saying a brewer has to keep the temps in line and a meadmaker also has to because both are using "yeast" is not scientifically accurate information.

Yeast alter their fermentation characteristics to their environment they are in. So yes, fermenting at cooler temps may reduce the amount of fusel alcohols in the finished product, but this may not necessarily be the case.

For starters, there is a reason why certain yeasts are preferred for making mead and wine. They have a higher alcohol tolerance, different pH preference, etc. And they may work better in the food source they are given.

Fusel alcohols may not be as big of a problem for mead due to the type of yeast normally used, or because the wort/must may not cause excessive fusels to be leaked from the cell walls.

There are still lots of answers to be found. I admire the fact that you are experimenting and I don't doubt that your results are accurate as far as you've taken it. But I also think that many people here already understand that yeast need proper temps.

What would be great would be further experimentation with lots of other variables, and even some analysis with specialized equipment that can pinpoint just how much of certain compounds are in the mead at specific intervals along the fermentation period.
 
Id love to see more experementing done homercidal.. unfortunately i dont have the equipment to conduct such tests.

Again i was contesting the satement that mead NEEDS to be aged, which is incorrect. You may want to age mead,but its entirely possible to make a table mead in two months.. or even less. Yes I agree aging can bring out more honey
character and residual sweetness.

If I had a better source for bottles I would have aged them, but at $3 a bottle I would have more in bottles than it was worth seeing as the honey was cheap and very craptastic.

matrix I think your confused on what I meant by yeast starter. Its essentailly rehydrating the yeast [which is what you described] then pitching the rehydrated yeast into a low gravity must [usually in the low 1.050s for me]. It gives the yeast a chance to get used to the high pressure on there cell walls before dumping them into a high gravity must.the concept behind it is essentailly controlled introduction of osmotic [sp?] pressure. It increases yeast health and decreases cell death.

For those who seem to think im new to mead making, I'm quite a few batches in, bout 4 years expierence. Far from a master but not a novice either.

pardon spelling errors typing quickly and in a hurry
 
Again i was contesting the satement that mead NEEDS to be aged, which is incorrect. You may want to age mead,but its entirely possible to make a table mead in two months.. or even less. Yes I agree aging can bring out more honey
character and residual sweetness.

If I had a better source for bottles I would have aged them, but at $3 a bottle I would have more in bottles than it was worth seeing as the honey was cheap and very craptastic.

It is possible to make a table mead in two months, yes, but it is an individual CHOICE as to if you CHOOSE to drink this mead at that time. Authors share recipes and give their advice, and it is up to you, the reader, as to whether you follow the recipe and advice. You can draw your own conclusions. Nothing scientific. But it is a very individualized decision when it comes to whether you like something or not. Our likes and dislikes are unique, as are the meads we all make. If you CHOOSE to consume an eight week mead that is on you. All that counts is whether YOU enjoy it.

You indicate your honey was "cheap and craptastic" and that you do not use glass bottles. You need to consider quality as a factor for a satisfactory end result. If your ingredients and fermentation/storage vessels are subpar then your finished product will be impacted. But then again, it is your opinion that the honey was cheap and craptastic--nothing scientific there, just your opinion.

I will continue to follow the age old advice, and respect the history of mazers of the past, and allow my mead to age the recommended time as indicated within the notes. And I will toast myself when I deem a batch worthy of consuming sooner than expected, and if it takes 1-3-5-7 years to reach the point of approval then that is fine by me. That is the choice I make.

In closing, I think if you really want to experiment in a scientific way then perhaps you should follow a true scientific model. If you enjoy your eight week old mead, congratulations on your success. But seriously, $3 for one empty glass bottle? Can you not find 'used' empty bottles?
 
I have been making mead for about 5 years and have about 30 batches under my belt, 5-6 gal batches, not 1 gal. I consider myself to be a novice and I have done some experiments myself. From what I have read on this "Experiment" is that it is not really set up right.

The experiments that I have done beyond my normal mead making. All 5 gal batches.

1. To oak or Not to oak: This was a regular sweet honey batch of alfalfa hone, good quality. Following the exact same procedures on both batches with racking times, amounts, and ingreedients. I made up a 10 gal batch and then divided it into two carboys. Tested the gravities and they were the same. Then on one of them I oaked it with 1 oz of lightly toasted Oak chip for 3 weeks and then racked and bottled both. Waited 6 months and opened a tester. The Oaked turned out better hands down. Further testers on side by side blind tasting proved that the oaked both aged quicker and was tastier quicker and was over all smoother of a mead.

2. Tale of 3 toasts: Did 3 batches of sweet honey mead with the same wild flower honey and used 1 oz of oak in each with a different level of oak, light, medium, heavy. Each presented a unique character that I added to my understanding of mead and helped me match the level of toast with the type of mead I am making.

I plan on a third with a Step feading vs no Step feeding to see the difference.
Another test I plan on doing is bottle aging vs carboy aging. Though that one is going to take several samples to test the viability of the consistency claims because that is what is at stake.

My point is, you need two batches nearly the same with the only difference being one change, not several. And then since this is a test of aging, take samples of it for a blind taste test at different time intervals. Only then can you truely judge. I think that is what is meant by the fact that this experiment is non-conslusive and that you cannot truely make the claim that you had. That aging is not neccessary. Many factors come into play.

Of course different processes can produce mead that is drinkable sooner. I have seen two of the same exact batches be drinkable at different times.

In all cases, don't be discoraged. Becoming a better mead maker is ALL ABOUT experimenting and improving your mead through making batches differntly and seeing the differences. There is no perfect mead. Also, like beer or wine or even distilled, there are many different tastes here. One mead that is enjoyed by one person may not be liked by another. That doesn't make it a bad mead. I do my experiments to improve my processes and vary my processes and learn. At this point in my art I consider myself a novice and barely out of noob-dom but I am learning.

Hopefully you will continue your quest and make a process of mead making that needs less aging but I will be suprised if you get it drinkable with anything less than 6 months aging. Even though aging will make it better.

Matrix
 
Forgive me iF I sound like an ass. my dept got sent home early from work today so I am peeved.

WVMJ-. I did use cheap crappy honey, in fact I stated in the first post that it was wally world brand clover honey. It IS 100% honey, though its not as good as say an orange blossom or the beloved tupelo.
A lesson i was taught when i was very young is assume breaks down like this- ass/u/me, in other words assuming makes makes an ass out of you and me, You because you were incorrect, me because of mud being thrown at me.I'm more than intellegent enough not to ferment corn syrup.

golddiggie- I'm glad what you do works for you. However name calling and childish jabs aimed at someone that dosnt agree with you is truly ignorant [its not an insult its a fact, look up rhe deffinition of the word]. I believe we should leave that sort of activity to politicians, not resort to it on an open disscusion forum.
Again ill state its a table mead, that was clear because of the fining agent I added, and was served semi chilled. It wasnt near as amazing as say a two year old blueberry melomel I cracked a few months ago but it was better than a few of the more inexpensive comercail meads ive had.

Saramc- I agreewhole heartedly!! as ive said 3 times now. My goal wasn't to make an amazing mead. I have a couple cellared that are working on it, it was to make a simple table mead, that could be ready fairly quickly, could keep the pipleline full, or one could quickly brew up to see if they even like mead. Some how the thread devolved from that, but when you challenge some other artisans processes there bound to bite back.
The mead was actually enjoyable, not going to win an award but great if youve had a crappy day at work and just want a simple drink but dont want to get into the private reserve in the cellar
My secondary is glass btw, just a simple one gallon jug. I usually do primary in a bucket, mainly because it allows me to go over a gallon batch that way i have extra for readings, loss to lees, and can fill the jug completley to the top if wanted.
I actually am buying used bottles.. I'm getting ripped because my LHBS dosnt have any atm, they ordered them but havent gotten them

Matrix.. ya caught me.. I know i should rightfully have only changed on variable at a time, but i only have 3 buckets and didnt want to spen a ton of money on honey for just a table mead or end up with 50 bottles of it.
 
HO, I did miss the part about crappy honey in your first post, sorry, I wouldnt have contributed to a post that wasnt serious about making mead. If you actually do a real test with real honey please let us know, I would be very interested as I have been advocating take care of your yeast early and it shouldnt take 3 years for your mead to be drinkable. I know where my honey comes from, every drop of it, I dont even have to think if there is any HFCS in there or tell people there isnt. Next time you want to do an experiment maybe run it by the group here first, might save you some time and make it a real test. WVMJ
 
Hey, I understand. I wonder though. What you said has touched a memory.
I saw in one sticky on more advanced techniques of mead making that someone did a primary with cheap honey and back sweetened it with the good stuff and found the taste about the same. I wonder if it's true.

So one experiment I plan on getting to is get some cheap honey. Do 2 batches, 1 using cheap honey, the other using the good stuff. Something simple like alfalfa or wildflower. All this for the primary. Getting the gravities the same at the start would be the key here. Then when it comes time to back sweeten it, back sweeten them both with the good honey. Then wait for aging and see what the difference is.

I wonder what the results would be.

As far as the "Cheap Honey" what I have found is that for almost the same prices at costco I can get a good quality wildflower. When the price difference is with in 5 to 10 cents a pound, I would just go with the better honey.

Hit up your local apiaries (Bee Farmers) for good prices in bulk. You may need to buy 60 pounds at a time or 120 but it's worth it. Honey doesn't really go bad. I will crystalize over the course of a couple of years but simple hot water bath will loosen it up enough to deal with. And it supports locally. And occasionally you can find a really good deal if you go in with a group for a 50 gal barrel and split it up.

Good luck.
Matrix
 
Not to hijack the thread, but I've read disconcerting reports that some "Chinese" honey is being routed through other countries and sold as 100% pure honey, even though they may contain other products. They specifically mentioned that Brand Name honey was included in the list of "fake" stuff. So you may not be able to judge a honey's quality on the name in the front.

It's even been suggested that some of the producers were importing honey from other countries to make up for the lack of honey in the US and trying to pass it off as local. I wish I had more information, but I'm sure the answers are out there in google search land.
 
My friend Eric (Saccharomyces on this forum) makes meads often, and has a very quick aging schedule.

There are a few keys, like quality ingredients including yeast strain, fermentation temperature control, nutrients, degassing the C02, etc. I think at the NHC 2011 (I wasn't there) he brought a 3 month old mead and it was outstanding according to those there.

Most people get into trouble when having an explosive "hot" fermentation, so that the fusels and other higher alcohols cause a "burn" or "hot" sensation. A very well made mead (or wine) can be ready soon, but a more complex mead with more complex flavors will be better with a little age on it.
 
My friend Eric (Saccharomyces on this forum) makes meads often, and has a very quick aging schedule.

There are a few keys, like quality ingredients including yeast strain, fermentation temperature control, nutrients, degassing the C02, etc. I think at the NHC 2011 (I wasn't there) he brought a 3 month old mead and it was outstanding according to those there.

Most people get into trouble when having an explosive "hot" fermentation, so that the fusels and other higher alcohols cause a "burn" or "hot" sensation. A very well made mead (or wine) can be ready soon, but a more complex mead with more complex flavors will be better with a little age on it.

I was there and had it, and it was three WEEK mead, not three months. I believe it was bottled on day 17. Standard strength traditional mead using quality honey, but extreme detail given to all aspects of the production. One thing he does, aside from the usual proper yeast preparation, nutrient additions (based on what the must is doing, not some arbitrary schedule), oxygenation multiple times a day, and very controlled fermentation temperature; is pH management at the ~50% sugar break and again at FG. Coupled with cold crashing at desired FG and filtration, he has mastered creating a really good "quick" standard strength mead.

This was also the consensus of the Mazer panel at NHC: great mead can be made in weeks/months, not years, if you're willing to dedicate yourself to a meticulous process. If you take some Walmart clover honey, shake it with some water, and toss in some EC1118, you'll still make mead, but not on an aggressive schedule.

I too was skeptical until I tried it. He's way more involved and meticulous with his process than I care to be, but maybe that's why he is opening a meadery and I am not. ;)
 
I think he is on gotmead to is he not?? I resd about a guy trying to do that over there some time ago, was a great thread

Matrix- my local "apiary" dried up with the ruff time of the drought this summer. It wasnt really an apiary but an amish man that raised bees on his family flower farm. They had a rough go about mid summer since there so small its hard for them to take a big loss for this year, hopefully this spring he will be up and running again. The backsweetening with the good stuff is somewhat true ime. If using a yeast like ec1118 that blows through honey flavor you CAN use a cheaper clover honey and ferment dry, stabalize, clear, and then backsweeten with the good stuff. Its a cheap way to get good tasting mead from low quality honey. However over a time of aging the original honeys character will show back up to the party and start a knifefight with the backsweetening honey. This results in a possible bloodbath for your taste buds, in summation es no bueno for longer aging.
I might make one gallon batches but they do scale and I have dabbled in the 5 gallon realm. I live in an appartment and like variety so i go one gallon. I would have to look but if memory serves me right ive made atleast 15 batches a year, one year double that. Im gonna put it at a safe number of 50 or so batches seen to completion at this point. and thats just of mead i have atleast 50 more of wine and a few beer [was on one of those anti- glutten diets for a couple years cut into my beer habit, but ive gained 40 lbs]

Homercidal- I think i know what you read. It was most likely about bee farmers feeding there bees HFC to increase production. Which is common practice in there industry. In fact its more likely to be table sugar since sucrose and sucralose have been proven in university studies and a study by the FDA to increase bee lifespan, production, and decrease hive dessertion. You will find this in ANY comercail honey. I will tell you how to tell the difference after my rant

BEGIN RANT/Not aimed at you homer, just general statements. If you think small farms dont do it you need a helmet and safety scissors. A bad yield for a small farm is going to hurt worse than a bad yield for a large farm. The only way to tell is if your honey burns at 148F or under. GV clover honey and there new simply honey brand both scorch at approximately 150F which is within the margin of error to say there is some sucrose in there, but not all. I could really blow your mind and prove to you that "organic" "cage free" and other labels as defined by the fda are GMO seeds, penned animals, and generally not what you think they are. I have worked in the farming industry and that includes organic farms and "artisianal farms" [think small farmers market farm}, the moral of that story grow as much of your own food as you can./ END RANT
rember 148F is the temp that if it scorches it contains non honey ingredients, which will most likely be found in atleast 98% of all honey, small or large apiary

Glad to hear about sach, Although I wasnt as meticulous as him I think we both came to the same conclusion. I wish him nothing but luck with his meadery, I'll be in line for a bottle.
 
<snip>

Homercidal- I think i know what you read. It was most likely about bee farmers feeding there bees HFC to increase production. Which is common practice in there industry. In fact its more likely to be table sugar since sucrose and sucralose have been proven in university studies and a study by the FDA to increase bee lifespan, production, and decrease hive dessertion. You will find this in ANY comercail honey. I will tell you how to tell the difference after my rant
<snip>.
Hmm, well you're kinda off on your take on the HFC thing. Basically it's fed so the bees will survive through the winter after most of their honey is harvested. "More likely" it *isn't* table sugar. The big honey producers (we're talking 200+ and up to thousands of hives) feed liquid feed by the tanker truck full...using hoses and nozzles to fill feeders. Feeding "table sugar" would get to be rather expensive for them and somewhat time consuming. I agree, though, that sugar is better for the bees than HFC but honey is even better for the bees...I leave honey on the hive for my bees and feed cane sugar when needed....but I'm just a hobbiest. ;) I disagree with your broad-brush statement that ANY commercial honey has HFC in it...that's giving somewhat of an absolute and I don't think you have the resources to do the research to state that. If you buy "no name" Chinese counterfeit honey then you may get HFC or something else in it, but to say all commercial honey has HFC in it is wrong.

Ed
 
No, what I'm talking about is when large producers (and maybe some small companies) purchase honey from overseas. Some Chinese producers have been caught adulterating supposedly pure honey with other things. The producers (or resellers, sometimes) in the US purchase honey from other countries, who were in fact, selling them honey that originally came from China.

Here is a sample:

http://www.apiservices.com/articles/us/honey_laundering.htm

and

http://healthland.time.com/2011/08/22/tainted-chinese-honey-may-be-on-u-s-store-shelves/

There are more.
 
Phoney honey is definitely a big problem. Lots of Chinese honey is redirected through Vietnam and other Asian countries. Here's just one example of what's going on... http://www.bellevuereporter.com/news/112213819.html

The US has to import a great deal of honey because it (the US) doesn't produce enough to meet demand. Some people don't think it's a problem because they "don't eat honey". The trick here is that most of the imported honey goes into processed food products...cereals, breads, other bakery items and mixes, canned goods, etc.,...so those people that "don't eat honey" actually are eating it and eating the worst of it. I have come to believe/understand that mostly domestic honey is what is sold for bottled retail honey. Imported honey being mostly used as an "ingredient". Naturally, buying from a hobbiest or sideliner or even directly from some commercial outfits is about the best way to get good, pure, raw honey....you can also keep your own bees. :)

Honey production is just like any other facet of our culture today...there's crooks in everything...but everyone isn't a crook (if ya know what I mean).

Bottom line, support the local economy...by local honey. :)

Ed
 
I didnt just paint with a large brush intheswamp I busted out the HVLP spray gun. In my experience though its true. I know all about HFC being fed to bees during the winter, thats not What I was talking about. I have worked on 3 different "certified organic" farms, all three kept bees and sold honey as a sideline. At all of the farms during the summer the bees were fed sugar to increase honey production. Bigger yield= more profit= more food on the owners/ workers tables. The honey however wasnt marketed as "raw organic" atleast they werent lying about it. However they werent advertising that the bees diet was supplemented with sucrose. My private honey source, dosnt do this however he isnt worried about producing honey he just keeps it to propagate his flowers.

homercidal- hmm thats wierd, the bottles of it I have I bought pre-drought. Mine all say argentina and peru, the new bottles however do have asain countries on the bottle. I have recently made a switch to simply honey brand, it comes in 5 pound jugs and scorches at around 154 so its more pure.

I'm glad I only have a few more months of this caca honey stuff!
 
ohio, I hope those "certified organic" farms didn't even have the word HONEY on the label...well, maybe in the ingredients lists....it should have been labeled as SYRUP. If they were feeding sugar with the intent of harvesting and selling it that is very unethical and does just what it has done...give legitiment beekeepers a blackeye. :mad: Around here a guy would be called out if he was passing off sugar syrup for honey. They're no better than the Chinese if they try to pass this off as honey...this would definitely make me suspicious of their "organic" products

Naturally we have to feed bees at times, but this is only to help the bees survive hard winters, drought, new colonies getting established, etc.,. Feed is withdrawn before a honey flow starts and honey supers are installed on the hives. The bees are smart, too, if a flow is on they pick the "real" nectar over the phoney stuff. ;)

I'm hoping that this year the domestic harvest will be better than last year's. Hopefully we won't have as early of a spring and the bees can build up their populations to a good level.

Best wishes,
Ed
 
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