Canning to make yeast starters easier?

I have been kicking this idea around in my head for awhile and was going to run it by the collective to see if anybody else has already perfected it. Most of my best ideas have already been done so it wouldn't surprise me.

The idea is this. Make a small (2 gallon or so) extract batch. I would not likely hop it as I wouldn't want to impart any hop flavor aroma to a starter for a beer that might not use the strain I had on hand when doing this.

I would make something using Jamil's 10 to 1 ratio suggested for starter wort in BCS. I would also likely add an appropriate amount of yeast nutrient.

Boil for 10-15 min and transfer to glass mason jars. I'm figuring I would package it in volumes of both 500ml and 250ml to give me some flexibility when making starters (or stepping up a starter) at a later date.

Once I filled and affixed the lids to the mason jars, I would just boil it in my canning pot. I have a pot with a rack in it that I use to can Salsa in the summer.

After that, I would think it could just be stored like any other canned material. A couple of questions though:

1. Do you think I would need to refrigerate it? I have boiled and sealed my salsa this way before and been able to store it in the pantry unopened for several months.

2. How long would the shelf life be? Canned, it could theoretically be years. Since you're likely decanting the starter beer, you're mainly wanting a nutrient source for the yeast.

I would think if I did this right, I could eliminate one of my few headaches surrounding yeast starters. I usually try to make them after work during the week before a brew weekend. It's a hassle getting home from work at 7:30, eating dinner, then making a starter and waiting for it to cool enough that you won't kill your yeast. It would be much better if I could just come home, sanitize my flask, dump in a pre-measured starter wort, plop it on the stir plate and get on with my evening.

Thoughts?

Boiling AFTER you add the yeast? That wouldn't work, you'd kill the yeast and just have cans of unfermented wort laying around.

If you're using a water bath canner, you'd need to keep it in the fridge. Wort is susceptible to things like botulism, so if you want it shelf-stable, you'd have to use a pressure canner and can it like you would spaghetti sauce or other low acid foods. Not like salsa, where a boiling water bath canner may be fine.

Lots of brewers can starter wort, with a pressure canner, with good results.

I have a pressure cooker I inherited from my grandmother. The seal around the lid is suspect and I have never used a pressure cooker. The concept concerns me a tad. It feels like putting a bomb on my stove.

However, refrigeration would not be an issue using my water bath canner. I have a spot in my keezer (on top of the compressor) where I could store them.

Just out of curiosity though, what's the difference between water bath canning and pressure canning in terms of shelf stability? I thought the concept for both was the same. High heat to kills germs and form a stable seal on the lid.

I am open to the fact that like most things in my life, I am probably oversimplifying this.

ericd said:

Boiling AFTER you add the yeast? That wouldn't work, you'd kill the yeast and just have cans of unfermented wort laying around.

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No no. The order of events is:

1. Make the wort
2. Can the wort by boiling it in a water bath
3. Store the wort for later use
let time pass, then
4. Sanitize my flask
5. Open jar of "canned" wort and pour it into my flask
6. Pitch yeast and proceed with starter schedule as usual.

winvarin said:

I have a pressure cooker I inherited from my grandmother. The seal around the lid is suspect and I have never used a pressure cooker. The concept concerns me a tad. It feels like putting a bomb on my stove.

However, refrigeration would not be an issue using my water bath canner. I have a spot in my keezer (on top of the compressor) where I could store them.

Just out of curiosity though, what's the difference between water bath canning and pressure canning in terms of shelf stability? I thought the concept for both was the same. High heat to kills germs and form a stable seal on the lid.

I am open to the fact that like most things in my life, I am probably oversimplifying this.

Click to expand...

Well, some things CAN be canned with a water bath canner- usually high acid foods that don't really spoil like jams, jellies, tomatoes (with lemon juice or other acid added), etc.

Other foods, like green beans, should only be canned with a pressure canner because of the risk of botulism.

The difference is that water bath canners only get up to boiling- at my house that's 208 degrees. But the way pressure canners work is that the temperature inside the canner gets up to over 240 degrees. That means all pathogens are chilled. Assuming the jars then seal properly, the item can be kept on the shelf.

It's too much to go into further here, but I've been canning food for ages. Following the USDA guidelines is the only way to ensure your canned food is totally safe. Botulism is tasteless, odorless, and colorless, and kills people.

Check into these guidelines for info: http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/general/ensuring_safe_canned_foods.html

winvarin said:

I have a pressure cooker I inherited from my grandmother. The seal around the lid is suspect and I have never used a pressure cooker. The concept concerns me a tad. It feels like putting a bomb on my stove.

However, refrigeration would not be an issue using my water bath canner. I have a spot in my keezer (on top of the compressor) where I could store them.

Just out of curiosity though, what's the difference between water bath canning and pressure canning in terms of shelf stability? I thought the concept for both was the same. High heat to kills germs and form a stable seal on the lid.

I am open to the fact that like most things in my life, I am probably oversimplifying this.

Click to expand...

The reason you can water bath can is because food like salsa, pickles, and most fruits have enough acid in them to prevent botulism from growing in the product. Low acid foods MUST be pressure canned. Boiling the wort will not guarantee that botulism will be killed. By using a pressure canner you can heat the product to 250F+ and successfully kill botulism.

This is nothing to take lightly as you may not have a second chance if you drink botulism tainted food - it really can kill you.

So I usually do about a 30 min boil when I water bath can. If I were to use a pressure cooker, how long would that need to go? (am reading the link in another tab now. Forgive me for jumping the gun if the article you linked speaks to that)

Probably 30 min at 250F. Make sure you read the directions for pressure canning. It's a little different than the water bath.

And then I read 2 more minutes and answer my own question

"At temperatures of 240° to 250°F, the time needed to destroy bacteria in low-acid canned food ranges from 20 to 100 minutes."

winvarin said:

So I usually do about a 30 min boil when I water bath can. If I were to use a pressure cooker, how long would that need to go? (am reading the link in another tab now. Forgive me for jumping the gun if the article you linked speaks to that)

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It depends on the food- for meat, the recommendation is 90 minutes (I believe) at 10 psi. But for most foods, it's much much less. I think fruits are like 8 minutes, for example.

For wort, since it's a sugary relatively acidic liquid, I'd go with a 10-15 minute process at 5 psi, I think. I've never done it, but I know that others have.

If you're using a pressure cooker, do you need any sort of trivet or rack inside the cooker to keep the jar off the bottom of the cooker? Is breakage a problem?

winvarin said:

And then I read 2 more minutes and answer my own question

"At temperatures of 240° to 250°F, the time needed to destroy bacteria in low-acid canned food ranges from 20 to 100 minutes."

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We must have "cross" posted! I think 20 minutes would be ultra safe. But why not? What's 10 more minutes really?

You could use a pressure canner and can 7 quarts at a time. At least, my canner holds 7 quarts or 14 pints. They have different sizes, but mine is one of the smaller ones.

winvarin said:

If you're using a pressure cooker, do you need any sort of trivet or rack inside the cooker to keep the jar off the bottom of the cooker? Is breakage a problem?

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Yes. The canner comes with a disc.

I will have to look at the one I got from my grandmother again then. I don't think it had a disk when I got it.

I came across this article a while back ... could be helpful

http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/starter-made-easy-pressure-cooking-your-starter-wort-ahead-time

winvarin said:

I will have to look at the one I got from my grandmother again then. I don't think it had a disk when I got it.

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Maybe not. And there are pressure cookers, and pressure canners. They are different. My mom had a pressure cooker that "locked" on the handles but you couldn't really control the pressure. That sucker was dangerous- those are the kind that were taken off the market in the 1970s.

If it's a nice pressure canner, you can buy new gaskets and discs at the hardware store, especially this time of year when canning is popular.

Is my LHBS giving bad advice?

http://www.beernut.com/zen-cart/index.php?main_page=page&id=4

Oh, and this is totally off-topic, but....... I can items like venison. I just cube up the meat, put it in the hot clean jars, and process at 10 psi for 90 minutes. It gets rid of the "gamey" flavor completely, and tenderizes the meat. My family always loved it, but I'll be doing pints this year (since my kids are grown. )

There are other uses, too. Quick meals, for one! Short ribs in the pressure canner, with some apples and sauerkraut, are done in like 15 minutes!

cfonnes said:

Is my LHBS giving bad advice?

http://www.beernut.com/zen-cart/index.php?main_page=page&id=4

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In short, yes. It could be a deadly mistake, if the wort pH is above 4.6.

I know we'll get lots of responses saying "I've done it for years, and it's fine". It probably is, the vast majority of the time. Until it isn't.

Yooper_Brew said:

Maybe not. And there are pressure cookers, and pressure canners. They are different. My mom had a pressure cooker that "locked" on the handles but you couldn't really control the pressure. That sucker was dangerous- those are the kind that were taken off the market in the 1970s.

If it's a nice pressure canner, you can buy new gaskets and discs at the hardware store, especially this time of year when canning is popular.

Click to expand...

You've convinced me not to use the cooker I have. That sounds like what it is. It has a lid with a bar that goes across the top. There is a knob on the bar that you screw down to lock the bar over the lid. If memory serves (it has been on a garage shelf for years), there is no pressure gague. It just has a pressure relief valve on the lid.

But back to the original idea. If I refrigerate, I can still can with the water bath, right? How long are they good for refrigerated?

winvarin said:

But back to the original idea. If I refrigerate, I can still can with the water bath, right? How long are they good for refrigerated?

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I have no idea. Botulism can't grow at fridge temperatures, so in theory it should last a long time. I'm not sure about other microorganisms, though.

My old pressure cooker doesn't have a gauge. Just a set of weights and a safety overpressure valve in case the steam orifice becomes clogged. My weights come in 5, 10 and 15 psi values. I pressure can wort with it all the time. 20 min @ 15 psi. It works fine. Plus you can make agar/wort yeast slants and re-culturing dishes. An amazingly useful device.

Regardless, if you don't want to use it as a pressure cooker, convert it into a vessel for steam infusion step mashing!

OK. So resurrecting my own wayyyyyy old thread.

I just finally decided to do this today. I got a pressure canner, jars, DME, some spare nutrient and have been at it for a couple hours.

I used the instructions and proportions included in this article:
http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/starter-made-easy-pressure-cooking-your-starter-wort-ahead-time

I am cooling my first batch and I see what I am calling hot break. Is that all this is or could it be that I missed a step somewhere? My gut says it's just hot break and I would need to do is decant this when I make my starter.