About to throw in the towel.....

Hello, I just finished up a batch of Dead Ringer IPA and am feeling down about my brewing. It's drinkable but not good. I've brewed 4 total batches and 2 have been really good and 2 barely drinkable. I've paid close attention to sanitizing everything and have followed the kits directions (except didn't rack my first IPA to the secondary). Is this normal or am I just wasting my time?

jc03 said:

Hello, I just finished up a batch of Dead Ringer IPA and am feeling down about my brewing. It's drinkable but not good. I've brewed 4 total batches and 2 have been really good and 2 barely drinkable. I've paid close attention to sanitizing everything and have followed the kits directions (except didn't rack my first IPA to the secondary). Is this normal or am I just wasting my time?

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If you're using good quality kits, fermenting at the proper temperature (mid 60s generally), and following the instructions, the beer should be very good.

Are you using tap water that may not be right for making great beer?

Its normal if you don't have proper temp control or you are properly pitching enough yeast for fermentation (if I had to guess your problem based on almost no info). Post your recipe and your process and you will get a lot of help on how to improve.

good luck

It is not normal. In addition to Yooper's questions, I have to ask which two didn't work (recipes) and are you controlling your fermentation temps? How long do you give your beers before you bottle/keg?

Document your process and fermentation and post it here. Details!

Like Yooper asked, what is your water source? What kind of temp control do you have over your brew day equip and fermenting?

+1 on ferm temp......

if you brewed the same extract kit multiple times, the same way, and had large taste swings, I put money on poor temp control!
Temp control is the single most important thing in brewing consistent extract beers.

Maybe you just don't like the styles you made. A few weeks back somebody posted that they made a pils and it tasted bad. After the description of the taste, the poster went to the store and bought some pils and came to the conclusion that the beer he made tasted pretty much like the store bought pils. Turns out that he just doesn't really like pils.

Jc a bit of patience may be in order. You mentioned pitching the yeast on this beer on another thread on July 27, not even a month ago. Try a batch 3-4 weeks in primary (dry hop in primary with 1 week to go) followed by 3 weeks in the bottles and see how that comes out. You can always try going faster once slower is working out ok.

Also some specifics on the flavor issues might help more experienced brewers pinpoint opportunities for improvement.

The dead ringer all grain kit from NB was my first batch of beer. What they dont tell you is that with the amount of yeast they give you, you are under pitching. Also they don't tell you about fermentation temps.

You need to calculate how much yeast you need for the gravity and volume of wort. Also know the yeast your using and what temp its optimal at.

Thanks everyone. I'll try and answer some of the questions. The 2 kits that were very good were Northern Brewers Dry Dock Pale Ale and the Irish Red that came with my starter kit. I am an IPA fan and tried a Racer 5 clone from Adventures In Homebrewing that didn't work out. The Dead Ringer IPA is the one I just finished that has more of a "malty" taste as my wife says. The Racer clone had a similar taste and very little hopiness. The carboys have been on my basement floor. The temp is somewhere around 67 degrees.

Here's what I did on this one. Primary fermenter July 27th (airlock bubbled almost immidiately and for 3 days)-Aug 12. Racked to secondary Aug 12 and dryhopped for last 7 days. Racked to keg Aug 21 and forcecarbed at 35psi for 48 hours, went to 0 psi then up to 12 psi. Tried on Aug 24.

When I racked it into the keg the first smell when I opened the carboy was very good and hoppy but as I got lower the smell was more malty and stale. Maybe like when you get the first beer of the day at a bar that hasn't cleaned their lines. Any help would be appreciated.

I'd say it's all that co2 pressure, then going down to zip & up again aerosolizing the hop oils & blowing them off as a first guess.

Also - did you check the final gravity reading when going to secondary/keg?

Or let it settle out clear or slightly misty before dry hopping? All that settling trub & yeast can get coated by the hop oils & go down to see old hob.

Is there anything I can do to make this batch better or is it too late?

I'd call it on this one flavor-wise. Start another batch & let it finish & settle out clear before dry hopping. Then carbonate in the keg with less pressure so it takes a more normal amount of time.

I often like to keg hop beers that should have a lot of fresh hop aroma. I'll usually boil a muslin hop sack and a weight (e.g., a stainless butter knife), load in an ounce or ounce and a half of pellet hops, and just put it in the keg. Normally before I carbonate, but I've added to a carbed beer before, too, and it can make a really big difference in a beer with less hop presence than I wanted. Just a thought.

Dry hops in primary followed by dry hops in the keg works well for me. Also think about oxygen exposure in transfer to keg. I am leaning toward priming sugar in kegs lately to let the yeast scrub oxygen picked up in transfer but know im in minority on that.

Finally could be your water if you are getting malty favors in IPA that push aside the hops. Are you adding gypsum?


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If you aren't satisfied with your beer. I suggest turning to your notes. Look at them, and then tweak what needs to be tweaked. Your notes will be the key to making good beer better. Along with fine tuning your process within your system. ::cheers::


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Dude...you need to brew up some of BierMuncher's Blond. Then go to Pale Ale. Do that a bunch of times and you'll be happy.

Ok Jc what you need to do then is just find one you like and make it over and over and over again till it is amazing. Lol then try other recipes.

As someone who hasn't been brewing long and has no knowledge I can't give any advice on the beer. But, wanna say don't get discouraged. I made a honey wheat that was way over carbed and had so much bite it burned, then I made an Irish Red that came out black and not to great, then came the Belgium Wit that smelled like rotten fruit, and lastly a milk stout that was thin and only 5% ABV. Made a lot of mediocre beers but then my last beer, Good JuJu clone turned out amazing. Couldn't have been more happy with it. It is so delicious and I feel like I nailed it. Just to some practice and learning from mistakes.

unionrdr said:

I'd call it on this one flavor-wise. Start another batch & let it finish & settle out clear before dry hopping. Then carbonate in the keg with less pressure so it takes a more normal amount of time.

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I disagree kind of. He can dry hop in the keg right now if he wants. That is if you're right about the co2 blasting the hop profile due to carbonic bite.

Regardless, lacking hop profile doesn't really make a beer nasty.

jc03 said:

The temp is somewhere around 67 degrees.

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And by temp I'm gonna guess you mean ambient temp. Your actual fermentation temp could easily be in the 70s.

Hello said:

I disagree kind of. He can dry hop in the keg right now if he wants. That is if you're right about the co2 blasting the hop profile due to carbonic bite.

Regardless, lacking hop profile doesn't really make a beer nasty.

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Yeah, he can dry hop in the keg for aroma. But it doesn't do much for flavor. It's the fact that our senses of smell & taste are linked that folks think they're getting more flavor.

unionrdr said:

Yeah, he can dry hop in the keg for aroma. But it doesn't do much for flavor. It's the fact that our senses of smell & taste are linked that folks think they're getting more flavor.

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True but his complaint was "the smell was more malty and stale..." ergo, dry hopping would enhance the smell. I'd dry hop the crap out of it and tell anyone else to do the same before I tell them to "call it". It is certainly worth an ounce of hops and a few days just to see. There is also the unknown, is it really the carbonation? No one can really be 100%.

Yeah, that can help of course. But getting more malty flavor than hop flavor is the kicker. The most I could think of was the co2 bursting. Although I have had IPA's loose their hop flavor in the bottles over about a month in. Even with the new bench capper. Difficult to explain that?...

unionrdr said:

Yeah, that can help of course. But getting more malty flavor than hop flavor is the kicker. The most I could think of was the co2 bursting. Although I have had IPA's loose their hop flavor in the bottles over about a month in. Even with the new bench capper. Difficult to explain that?...

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Yeah totally weird. I drank my first and only IPA fast. My hoppy pale ale lasted slightly longer but didn't fade like that. Hops are weird.

Yeah, they can be at that. I was just wondering if the chemical additive that makes hops more pronounced would cause this if lacking? I'm not real big on water chemistry yet?...

I've never brewed that recipe but if I remember correctly the amount of Centennial isn't overwhelming. Like some people have said, dry hop that keg! I think the "flavor/aroma" differentiation talk is silly. Sure our taste receptors may not respond to dry hop compounds the way they do to isoalpha acids or something else but the perception of flavor is there big time, and that's all that matters.

astronomical said:

And by temp I'm gonna guess you mean ambient temp. Your actual fermentation temp could easily be in the 70s.

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Agreed. OP - I'd take a hard look at your fermentation temperatures. Leaving it up to ambient is a great way to end up with off-flavors and less than stellar beer. If you even just do a very basic swamp cooler set up during the first week of fermentation you'll see a significant improvement in quality and consistency. It's a shame to waste a $50 + kit and your time when basic temperature control is really simple and affordable.

Dead Ringer is a Two Hearted clone. It's a good kit and people here have brewed a LOT of that beer using the recipe here. There are a few things that are basic to all brewing:

1) Sanitation. Sometimes overdone, but that's not a bad thing. Probably nothing going on here.
2) Fermentation Temps. The yeast produce their own heat, so 67 degree ambient could be 72 or a few more in a vigorous fermentation.
3) Water. Kind of a big deal for an IPA. You want a lot of sulfates to really bring out the hops. And of course for any beer, you MUST know if your water is treated with Chloramines or Chlorine or otherwise has a very unusual amount of something.

I'm not advocating a crash course in brewing water chemistry. You should be able to find out from your local water company what is in your water. If you have a well, you can have your water tested at Ward Labs for like $30. (Form is on their website, and you can simply send your sample inside a well -rinsed out soda bottle.)

OR, just buy some spring water from the store. There is a great chance it's suitable for brewing.

At this point I highly recommend adding some more dry hops to the keg. My method is to place some sanitized marbles (or any small stainless object, such as a butter knife) in a sanitized bag along with the hops and suspend that in the keg. I tie unflavored dental floss to the bag and tie it off on the keg handle. The floss is thin enough to not leak CO2 when it's run across the lid seal.

I dry hop all my hoppy beers in the keg (Although I have since soldered a tab to the underside of my keg lids to make it easier to tie off the bag) and the dry hops can stay in the keg for the 2 months it takes me to drink it. The cold will keep them from causing a grassy flavor. You may wish to pull them out after 2 weeks or so.

Don't give up on brewing! There are a LOT of different ways of doing things to improve your beers, but only a few basic things that will cause you to brew bad beer.

You mentioned that these are kits. Is it all extract? Extract with some steeping grains? All grain? What kind of water are you using? How much is your total boil volume? Before we can help diagnose a problem, we need to know what you've done to get to where you are.

Fermentation temperature is hugely important. A few degrees to you and me is no big deal but to your yeast, and the flavor profile they give, it's huge. My beer quality improved immensely after I got the ability to control temperature. I used to ferment in whatever the house was at. This was typically mid 70's and could approach 80 in the summer. That's way too hot. In the winter the house might be around 70 which was usable but almost still too warm. Keep in mind that due to the activity in the fermenter, the beer will be warmer. Potentially by several degrees. I once tried to brew a Sam Adams Lager clone but had no choice but to ferment at room temperature. It was in the upper 70's. That beer came out tasting more like a Chimay Grand Reserve than Sam Adams. A good beer but hardly the same thing. Others also commented on how it was a good Belgian style beer.

On the surface IPA sounds like an easy beer to make. Just throw lots of hops into the kettle and viola, IPA! Not quite. IPA is actually quite difficult to brew well. It's easy to get a hoppy beer but making one taste really good isn't as easy as it sounds. Hope oils bind to yeast cells and hot break and settle out so it's easy to lose the aroma in the fermenter or even the bitterness in the kettle if hops are added during the hot break. Force carbonation can also blow aromas off. There are lots of ways to lose that wonderful taste, bitterness, and aroma!

As a beginner, I'd start with a different style. A brown or a porter to start. Get a couple of those under your belt and then move down the color scale. Don't give up. You'll get it. It's just not always an easy journey. If you decide to stick with it, get a way to control fermentation temperatures. Things will get better.

Try a yeast starter to bring your cell count. It allows you to pitch more healthy cells into your wort.