yeast pitching

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dave1776

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Im doing an all grain batch today and I'm using safael 05. is it necessary to hydrate the dry yeast before pitching? Does it make a big difference in the grand scheme of things?
 
Is it that big of a PITA to rehydrate yeast? I would follow the manufacturer's directions. They suggest rehydration for a reason.
 
Yup, get the yeast ready for their work. Its a small amount of work compared to getting a starter completed for liquid yeast (and the biggest advantage of dry yeast IMO). Both are highly advisable in my book.
 
Just wanted to be sure, some people tell me just to open and pour it in. While others swear by hydrating. There are no directions on the pack so i assume room temp water about 70 degrees is ok?
 
Room temp water is fine, just make sure it's been boiled first. Just pitching then dry can mean a loss of half your population.
 
If the water is bottled/purrified water does it still need to be boiled?
 
my $.02... i've done both rehydrating and pitching dry right on the froth on the top of the wort after aerating. i've not seen any difference in lag times, attenuation or flavor either way. mind you, i always make sure to pitch at least the recommended cell count and i ferment at the low end of the yeasts temp range. i'm not making a statement either way, as i do rehydrate sometimes, and not others, i'm just saying that in the scheme of things i think rehydrating or not rehydrating is not a real issue as long as you aerate properly, pitch enough healthy yeast, and ferment at proper temps.
 
A while back there was a bad batch of dry yeast. Rehydrating prior to pitching showed a problem with the yeast and prevented a future ferment problem. So if nothing else I rehydrate to check viability.
 
A while back there was a bad batch of dry yeast. Rehydrating prior to pitching showed a problem with the yeast and prevented a future ferment problem. So if nothing else I rehydrate to check viability.

How does rehydrating bad yeast show its bad?
Does it all sink? All float?
Turn color?
 
It should sink to the bottem after 15 but you may have to stir the rest on top, i just use my thermometer i have sitting in it already then put the sirran wrap back over the cup. Let it sit another 15 then Pitch or if im not ready i add a little wort a little higher temp than i cool it too,let it cool more than strain,aerate then pitch.You may see your hydrated yeast it somewhat frothy on top but not much , and it should smell like yeast,not anything off- as far as hydrating and not adding wort to it.
My lag times have been cut in half from switching to hydrating.
 
It will not ruin your batch at all, but a lot of us on here are big sticklers when it comes to doing everything we can to make the best beer we can. I like others hear have not seen a real difference when it comes to hydrating yeast. I have tried both ways, not that big of a deal in my eyes. That being said it is such a simple step and the reasoning makes sense to me so why not.

The idea behind rehydrating in water is due to the fact that the yeast is dried in a medium that is glueing the cells together. Water will do a better job of releasing the yeast because there is no sugar in solution. When you pitch directly into the sugary wort, the median the yeast are coated in takes longer to dissolve thus holding some of the yeast captive.

Both ways work, one is 1% more work, up to you in the end.
 
FWIW Latest issue of Brew Your Own magazine had an article that indicated it didn't seem to make much difference rehydrating or not.
 
Just wanted to be sure, some people tell me just to open and pour it in. While others swear by hydrating. There are no directions on the pack so i assume room temp water about 70 degrees is ok?

If you want to see if there is some life in the yeast, you need to put it into warm water, between about 95-110. You'll see the yeast sort of "foam up" a little, which means there's life in there.
 
You need normal water (not RO or distilled) at 95f-105f.

The hydrogen bonds in the water kind of sit in the cell walls, making them orderly after they get a bit messed up in the dehydration stage. They need to be orderly to stop the osmotic shock of sugar rushing in and destroying the cells.

Also, no need to oxygenate dry yeast if you pitch the correct amount.
 
I brewed 2 batches of beer two days apart with similar OG. Both were pitched with Safale US-05 dry yeast without re-hydration that had been purchased the same day. One took 36 hours to show activity while the other was percolating in 12 hours. While rehydrating may be good practice, your yeast lag time may vary more than you would think.
 
You need normal water (not RO or distilled) at 95f-105f.

The hydrogen bonds in the water kind of sit in the cell walls, making them orderly after they get a bit messed up in the dehydration stage. They need to be orderly to stop the osmotic shock of sugar rushing in and destroying the cells.

Also, no need to oxygenate dry yeast if you pitch the correct amount.

Doesnt it still benefit from oxygenating,with dry yeast? Or are you saying there is absoulutly no benefit to aerating,and its pointless to do it?
 
You absolutely need to aerate your wort regardless of what kind of yeast you're using.

^THIS^ there seems to be some info floating around about not needing to aerate when pitching dry yeast, i just talked about this on another thread. theoretically, the process of drying yeast gives them what they need from oxygen absorption... key word there, THEORETICALLY. if you don't aerate when using dry yeast, they will kick flavor compounds that may not be desirable in your beer.

people, PLEASE AERATE YOUR WORT. your beer will thank you for it. :ban:
 
People oxygenate because palmer said so.

I don't because one of the leading figures on yeast in the UK and a scientist from danstar said don't, if anything, it's detrimental.
 
I've never heard that yeast get oxygen from dehydrating and frankly that sounds really silly. How would that work? Dehydrating and rehydration are pretty rough on yeast and not giving them what they need isn't going to help your brew.

Keep in mind that dry packs have a huge amount of yeast...if you treat them right. Rehydration and proper 02 levels are extremely important to that. Without it, enough of your yeast will die and you'll be under pitching. Will you still make beer? Sure. Will it be as good as it have been? Probably not.
 
Yeast don't grow magically in the presence of oxygen.

They use the oxygen to synthesize lipids. This has already been done in the drying process, hence no further oxygen is needed.
 
I have just learned that pure 02 will put twice the oxygen than aerating. Will a bubbler work better than a aerater drill mixer.What about yeast nutrient? Im wondering if i can make better beer with the pure 02 and yeast nutrient.Is yeast nutrient considered an "additive".?It seems these additives like irish moss are pretty natural-some brewries seem to take pride in having no additives. I dont like chemicals myself,but alot of the additives seem to be pretty natural. Im always looking to improve my beer and am thinking this will help,alot.Anybody think this improves it?
 
I've never heard that yeast get oxygen from dehydrating and frankly that sounds really silly. How would that work? Dehydrating and rehydration are pretty rough on yeast and not giving them what they need isn't going to help your brew.

yeah, i thought the same thing. something about the fats and carbohydrates that they put in dry yeast being sufficient. the poster talking about it either didn't know what he was talking about, or just didn't know how to explain it well. either way, it didn't make much sense. i thought it sounded like a silly reason to not aerate. kinda like the olive oil thing where olive oil s'posedly eliminates the need to aerate. might work in theory, but i don't see brewers jumping to add olive oil to their recipes.
 
jonmohno said:
I have just learned that pure 02 will put twice the oxygen than aerating. Will a bubbler work better than a aerater drill mixer.What about yeast nutrient? Im wondering if i can make better beer with the pure 02 and yeast nutrient.Is yeast nutrient considered an "additive".? Im always looking to improve my beer and am thinking this will help,alot.Anybody think this improves it?

Yeast nutrient isn't needed with correct pitching rates. The only thing it may become deficient in is zinc if you reuse the yeast many times as zinc tends to drop out with the trub.
 
Zinc isn't present in wort from the get go, unfortunately. Yeast nutrient is a good thing. I wouldn't consider it an adjunct or an additive, it's like your vitamins in the morning :)
 
Yeast nutrient isn't needed with correct pitching rates. The only thing it may become deficient in is zinc if you reuse the yeast many times as zinc tends to drop out with the trub.

may not be necessary, but it sure helps. i use nutrient in everything i ferment.

Zinc isn't present in wort from the get go, unfortunately. Yeast nutrient is a good thing. I wouldn't consider it an adjunct or an additive, it's like your vitamins in the morning :)

right! :mug: nutrient, proper pitch rates, and good aeration sure seem to make for a quick, healthy ferment.
 
NordeastBrewer77 said:
right! :mug: nutrient, proper pitch rates, and good aeration sure seem to make for a quick, healthy ferment.

I get the same results without adding oxygen or nutrients. Rehydrated Nottingham will typically hit fg in 3 days for me with very little lag time.
 
I get the same results without adding oxygen or nutrients. Rehydrated Nottingham will typically hit fg in 3 days for me with very little lag time.

cool. i've found that no matter the yeast, an oxygen rich environment limits lag times and gives me a quicker, cleaner ferment. doesn't matter if it's liquid, dry, harvested from a bottle, lots of o2 produces a better beer, in my experience, than little/no o2.
 
ChillWill said:
I get the same results without adding oxygen or nutrients. Rehydrated Nottingham will typically hit fg in 3 days for me with very little lag time.

That might be your experience and if so, right on. However, everything I've ever read says that that's a bad idea, from Zainasheff on down. No offense, but are you generally able to pick out off flavors?
 
MrManifesto said:
That might be your experience and if so, right on. However, everything I've ever read says that that's a bad idea, from Zainasheff on down. No offense, but are you generally able to pick out off flavors?

Well I took some homebrew into work and the brewers there said the best compliment they could give me was "it doesn't taste like homebrew", and they're all very experienced.

Also, Nottingham treated badly is a dirty yeast, throws out all sorts of off flavours, and as it hasn't done that to me I'm pretty confident in my practices.
 
I'm just passing on advice I've received from my experience, what I've learned at work, and what I learned at the university of Nottingham/SABmiller test facility from the academics there.

If people want to do it another way, that's up to them, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.
 
ChillWill said:
Well I took some homebrew into work and the brewers there said the best compliment they could give me was "it doesn't taste like homebrew".

Not sure that's much of a compliment?

No worries man, just giving an alternate opinion, others can try and see what works for them, same as we do. Cheers.
 
Ha, it was a compliment. I've tried some homebrew competition rejects and they were awful. Infected, dms, sulphur, diacetyl, fusel alcohol, you name it!
 
I have always just pitched dry Saf 04 and 05 without any problems. I have visible bubbling after 9 hours on my latest batch. I love Safale yeast, it's about all I use. Cheap and effecient.
The instructions say to just sprinkle it on top of the wort and let it sit for 30 minutes and see it hydrate then mix the wort. I let it sit for about 10 minutes, that seems to do it.
 
"That seems to do it",but "can i make it better? "if possible, are two different things.
 
I have always just pitched dry Saf 04 and 05 without any problems. I have visible bubbling after 9 hours on my latest batch. I love Safale yeast, it's about all I use. Cheap and effecient.
.

it may 'seem to do it' but it isn't the best way. 9 hours lag would worry me a little, i tend to see 3-5 hour lags with dry and liquid. dry i just sprinkle on top of the froth and liquid is always a starter. i think your post about sums up one of my main reasons for aerating the $h*t out of the wort, no more overnight lag times.
 
it may 'seem to do it' but it isn't the best way. 9 hours lag would worry me a little, i tend to see 3-5 hour lags with dry and liquid. dry i just sprinkle on top of the froth and liquid is always a starter. i think your post about sums up one of my main reasons for aerating the $h*t out of the wort, no more overnight lag times.

I should clarify myself a bit. I woke up at 3am and it was bubbling. I don't know exactly when it started but I saw it bubbling within 9 hours. It was probably less.
Also, I sprinkle it on top, let it foam a bit and then shake the living hell out of the carboy. I spriinkle on top and then aerate which is what the PDF on Safale says to do.
To me, controlling the fermentation temperature is more important than how the yeast begins life. I have hydrated and not hydrated and it seems to not make much of a difference however preventing the temperature spikes that like to happen helps keep the beer from tasting crappy.
 
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