Should I buy this JEEP... ?

So, I've asked everyone else for advice and thoughts, why not my fellow HBT'ers? I know there are some JEEP owners here too, so it might be the push I need.

A little background: I have a 2003 Nissan 350Z that I've been driving, well, since 2003. I drive it pretty much, "daily". I've always bummed one of my mother or father's extra cars for winters when necessary, but otherwise I drive the Z and always make due - I have 120k on the old faithful!

However, I'm recently beginning to see I could use a bigger and 2nd vehicle. Fishing isn't so easy in the Z (first year fishing since before I owned it), can't take my little nephew anywhere with only a 2 seater, even weekend getaways with SWMBO are a little cramped if we take the Z. She has a medium sedan we sometimes use and is also currently looking into SUVs, but I think she's going to go with a new medium sized car (Malibu or similar) soon as opposed to an SUV.

So, with that said, should I pick this up:

98 Cherokee Classic, 4x4, Fully Loaded, AT, Dark Green (CD, PW, PDL, PM, Keyless entry, Overhead electronic console, the whole nine yards). Aftermarket brush guard and foglights. About 95k miles. Body is generally in pretty darn nice condition - one to two door dings, literally, no major dents, etc. Has the obligatory dozen or so small (2" or less) scratches from daily use for over 10 years. I don't know much about the previous owner, but appears from the aftermarket stuff and some wires for amps that are hidden under the seat that it was a younger owner. Car drives nice, starts right up and purrs, 4WD works, tranny doesn't slip even when gunned. Comes with 3 month, unlimited mileage warranty. It's only $4995... Seems like a good deal, but can I get a HBT push?

I'd be driving this for weekend outdoorsy type stuff, vacations, and winter weather primarily. Maybe a day or so per week to work. I get 23mpg in the Z, but have to buy premium fuel. I know the Cherokee won't get great mileage (What can i expect?!), but my drive to work is all highway. Is 18 MPG on the way to work possible? I can buy 87 octane, so it won't be a whole lot of difference from the Z?

Thoughts?

I had the 98 Cherokee Sport and I loved it. IMHO, that price is about 1k too high. I'd think that $4k would be more appropriate. I'd be willing to bet the Kelley Blue Book value on it isn't $4995. Is the seller willing to negotiate?

edit - forgot to mention, I used to get about 19 mpg on the highway with the 4L 6 cylinder engine

18 mpg ha!, try 12 - 14mpg, those things are gas guzzlers. I have a 6 cylinder wrangler right now it gets 15 - 16 mpg. I previously owned an inline 6 cylinder cherokee from 1989 it got 12 miles per gallon, I am sure they are a little better now a days and probably get 14 or 15, but not much more than that.

In terms of math 3.30 for regular right now divided by 16mpg (high estimate) is about .20 a mile. 4.00 for premium (high estimate) divided by 23 is .17 a mile.

But let me just say people don't get jeeps because of the mileage, there is only 1 reason to get a jeep, FUN! and yes they are fun. My wrangler and my previous cherokee are bumpy, uncomfortable cars. The wrangler I currently have leaks, but this is somewhat expected since it is now more than 10 years old. But let me just say the summers with it are great. I don't often need to drive through 2 foot snow banks or go offloading very often, but it is nice to know I can when I need to because I have that fun car. Honestly though I haven't taken the car offroading in about 2 years, but I could... but I could.

Well, I looked up the KBB and it would only give me the "Excellent" condition retail value of ~$6,200. Now obviously its not "Excellent" or "Like New", but I've looked at 3 others and they were similarly priced (don't want to spend too much b/c it IS just a second vehicle) and were CRAP compared to this one.

He wasn't too willing too negotiate unfortunately. If I decided to take it, I think I'd be paying $5000 out the door (Tax, tags, etc.) included... but its better than $5400 after taxes and tags?

Thanks for the response! How was the Cherokee highway-mileage wise?

RoaringBrewer said:

Well, I looked up the KBB and it would only give me the "Excellent" condition retail value of ~$6,200. Now obviously its not "Excellent" or "Like New", but I've looked at 3 others and they were similarly priced (don't want to spend too much b/c it IS just a second vehicle) and were CRAP compared to this one.

He wasn't too willing too negotiate unfortunately. If I decided to take it, I think I'd be paying $5000 out the door (Tax, tags, etc.) included... but its better than $5400 after taxes and tags?

Thanks for the response! How was the Cherokee highway-mileage wise?

Click to expand...

I just checked KBB and it looks like $4995 is slightly high. It gave me the "Good" condition price of $3200. Did you do the Private Party value?

Soulive said:

I just checked KBB and it looks like $4995 is slightly high. It gave me the "Good" condition price of $3200. Did you do the Private Party value?

Click to expand...

No, I did retail value... Thanks for checking into that though. Maybe I can use it as some ammunition to get this thing a little cheaper.

I guess my father was right. He said offer him around $4500 cash out the door...

RoaringBrewer said:

No, I did retail value... Thanks for checking into that though. Maybe I can use it as some ammunition to get this thing a little cheaper.

I guess my father was right. He said offer him around $4500 cash out the door...

Click to expand...

No problem. I agree with your dad on that price. Good luck...

I drive an identical one (from the description) to that one.

I LOVE IT.

It is probably about due to have some engine seals and some other medium upkeep things done, but it is well worth it.

Gas mileage depends so much on how you drive, but it does have a really huge engine for a 6 cylinder small SUV.

I got a compliment the other morning on how sharp mine looks. Dark forest green is how I would describe it.

Here's the autotrader site:

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...ransmission=&doors=&max_price=6000&cardist=28

On mileage, it has the overhead electronic console that was reading MPG while I drove. It is basically eye-candy, b/c I couldn't get any useful information from it. While gunning it to test out the transmission's condition, it read 3mpg, haha. While cruising at 55-60 on the highway, it read low 20s... it would fluctuate between those two figures wildly throughout normal driving, so I figure its about the average of the two...

RoaringBrewer said:

On mileage, it has the overhead electronic console that was reading MPG while I drove. It is basically eye-candy, b/c I couldn't get any useful information from it. While gunning it to test out the transmission's condition, it read 3mpg, haha. While cruising at 55-60 on the highway, it read low 20s... it would fluctuate between those two figures wildly throughout normal driving, so I figure its about the average of the two...

Click to expand...

I took mine to Boston a few times, which was mostly highway for 4 hours. I specifically calculated one of the trips and I averaged 20mpg. I'd say my average highway mpg was 18-19...

Soulive said:

I took mine to Boston a few times, which was mostly highway for 4 hours. I specifically calculated one of the trips and I averaged 20mpg. I'd say my average highway mpg was 18-19...

Click to expand...

Thanks! Obviously I'm not buying it to have a fuel-efficient vehicle, but there is a big difference between 12mpg and 20mpg with gas > $3/g...

Guess I'll see if this guy can work with me. If not, there are about 30 of these listed within 75 miles of my place.

I've got a '96 Cherokee with the inline-6 and the auto. Mine is a 2wd, though. I think it's got somewhere around 250k miles on the clock.

Yes, you can hit the upper teens in highway economy, but you certainly won't average anywhere near that. Expect it to guzzle gas like crazy..

They're not very comfortable. The ride is often harsh, and the handling isn't the greatest.

Expect it to leak oil from the rear main seal at some point, if it isn't already. Similarly, you might also expect to see some leaking around the valve cover. Expect the Neutral Safety Switch to crap out and prevent starting in Park or the reverse lights turning on properly. Expect a leak in the exhaust manifold at the welded joints where the pipes from the cylinders collect. Expect warped front brake rotors.

The 4L inline-6 is a beast - built like a tank. You wouldn't believe the abuse some people have seen these engines survive. Mine has been suffering from a leaky exhaust manifold and bad rear main seal for years now, and it's still ticking fine (sounds like a diesel, but runs great!). They're easy to maintain, very DIY friendly, and parts are plentiful and cheap. I just hope you enjoy DIY vehicle maintenance.

The AW4 auto is also pretty bulletproof. Mine has been running with a steady leak for years, and aside from having to add fluid when it starts to skip around, I haven't had much trouble with it.

Honestly, aside from minor problems, they really are very reliable - a side effect of a drivetrain that had very little Chrysler influence. The body will probably fall apart long before the engine dies. All-in-all, I'd say it's one of the better vehicles I've ever decided to buy.

capntang said:

I've got a '96 Cherokee with the inline-6 and the auto. Mine is a 2wd, though. I think it's got somewhere around 250k miles on the clock.

Yes, you can hit the upper teens in highway economy, but you certainly won't average anywhere near that. Expect it to guzzle gas like crazy..

They're not very comfortable. The ride is often harsh, and the handling isn't the greatest.

Expect it to leak oil from the rear main seal at some point, if it isn't already. Similarly, you might also expect to see some leaking around the valve cover. Expect the Neutral Safety Switch to crap out and prevent starting in Park or the reverse lights turning on properly. Expect a leak in the exhaust manifold at the welded joints where the pipes from the cylinders collect. Expect warped front brake rotors.

Click to expand...

That is hitting the nail on the head. I had a '96 inline 6 4WD Auto and that describes my experience pretty well. Oh, and if you have to replace the radiator or remove it for service, expect to dam near disassemble the entire font end.

Edit: BTW, I highly recommend carefully inspecting the wiring/electrical system if you can easily spot evidence of aftermarket stereo equipment installs. I have found some really aweful shorts/hack/patch jobs in the past on used vehicles like that.

brewt00l said:

That is hitting the nail on the head. I had a '96 inline 6 4WD Auto and that describes my experience pretty well. Oh, and if you have to replace the radiator or remove it for service, expect to dam near disassemble the entire font end.

Click to expand...

Ha! Yep, I've done that one.

I just replaced the CPS last weekend - Advance Auto had 2 parts listed, one with the wrong plug and one that was about 2 inches too short. How's that for typical?

I guess it'd be safe to say that I love working on that truck, but I'm not so fond of actually driving it.

Problems like the NSS might seem daunting if you go to the dealer for a replacement (a few hundred bucks, as I recall), but as with most Jeep problems, it can be remedied for much less. In the case of the NSS, you can pop the switch off the side of the transmission after removing the two bolts that secure it, clean the electrical contacts with a wire brush and some carb cleaner, and grease everything with some white lithium or dielectric grease before bolting it back.

Just don't break the pivot bolt off in the transmission - it cost me 5 hours under the truck with a pair of vice grips and 10 bleeding knuckles to fix that mistake.

capntang said:

I've got a '96 Cherokee with the inline-6 and the auto. Mine is a 2wd, though. I think it's got somewhere around 250k miles on the clock.

Yes, you can hit the upper teens in highway economy, but you certainly won't average anywhere near that. Expect it to guzzle gas like crazy..

They're not very comfortable. The ride is often harsh, and the handling isn't the greatest.

Expect it to leak oil from the rear main seal at some point, if it isn't already. Similarly, you might also expect to see some leaking around the valve cover. Expect the Neutral Safety Switch to crap out and prevent starting in Park or the reverse lights turning on properly. Expect a leak in the exhaust manifold at the welded joints where the pipes from the cylinders collect. Expect warped front brake rotors.

The 4L inline-6 is a beast - built like a tank. You wouldn't believe the abuse some people have seen these engines survive. Mine has been suffering from a leaky exhaust manifold and bad rear main seal for years now, and it's still ticking fine (sounds like a diesel, but runs great!). They're easy to maintain, very DIY friendly, and parts are plentiful and cheap. I just hope you enjoy DIY vehicle maintenance.

The AW4 auto is also pretty bulletproof. Mine has been running with a steady leak for years, and aside from having to add fluid when it starts to skip around, I haven't had much trouble with it.

Honestly, aside from minor problems, they really are very reliable - a side effect of a drivetrain that had very little Chrysler influence. The body will probably fall apart long before the engine dies. All-in-all, I'd say it's one of the better vehicles I've ever decided to buy.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the first-hand experience. I definitely am not worried about it "breaking down" on me anytime soon, even with ~100k on the clock. I can also do most DIY maintenance when I am feeling motivated to do so, haha.

With that said, I'm still looking at my options. There are plenty within driving distance of me between $3,500 - 6,000. It's just trying to pick the one that is going to treat me well.

In fact, I just found one about 50 miles from me on ebay actually. 120k on the clock, sport, fully loaded including moonroof and 10 disc changer (in addition to power everything, etc), owned for 105k of those miles by an elderly couple. Reserve set for 2,800 or something i believe. I might go look at this one also.

The other one for $4995 seems like a solid deal to me, but the unwillingness of the dealer to work with me makes me wonder and hesitant...

capntang said:

I just replaced the CPS last weekend - Advance Auto had 2 parts listed, one with the wrong plug and one that was about 2 inches too short. How's that for typical?

Click to expand...

..memories *sniff*

My family has had great luck with jeeps. We have had two with well over 150K on the clock and oil field miles at that. Never had any major issues. They are great little cars.

It's a great vehicle on everything except gas mileage. I've got a '97. Bought it with 93,000 on it about a year and a half ago, and I paid 4600. Highway mileage is about 19, and on a mix of highway and city driving I get about 16-17.

Easy to work on even if you're not an expert mechanic, reliable and roomy. Oh, the only other disadvantage is that it's noisy (inside) on the highway. Gotta really turn the radio up to cover the wind noise.

the art guy said:

It's a great vehicle on everything except gas mileage. I've got a '97. Bought it with 93,000 on it about a year and a half ago, and I paid 4600. Highway mileage is about 19, and on a mix of highway and city driving I get about 16-17.

Easy to work on even if you're not an expert mechanic, reliable and roomy. Oh, the only other disadvantage is that it's noisy (inside) on the highway. Gotta really turn the radio up to cover the wind noise.

Click to expand...

Comfort and highway noise are two things I am pretty lenient on...

I drive a modified 350z normally - 2 seats only (obviously not roomy!), lowered 1" from stock (which is already damn low!), with 35 series tires that don't always wear evenly due to a factory issue on the 2003s, and engine mods including header-back exhaust with test pipes (e.g. no cats!). I'm very used to a crammed, noisy highway ride...

But I love it!

I just got rid of my 96 jeep cherokee sport. It got about 14-15 MPG and was a standard withe the 4.0 motor. I never had to fix a thing on it but normal maintenance like brakes but had 215,000 miles on it and was my wifes car and wanted to get her into something newer. I also had a 4" suspension lift on it with 33" BFG Mud Terrains as it was my vehicle at 1 point until she decided 1 winter day that she really liked it. Was a great vehicle, actually the most reliable vehicle I ever had and am sad at Mopar for discontinuing that vehicle.

Not to be the negative guy...but I have a Jeep and I hate it. Not because of the way it runs, comfort level, maintenance, or anything like that.

It's made for SHORT people! I am only 6'0", but my head touches the ceiling of my Grand Cherokee when I sit up straight. I can't see the stop light if I am first in line, I have to hunch down to see when the light is green.

I have a 2004 Grand Cherokee Limited. Obviously a different year from your rig, but I wanted to let you know my experience. I did not notice the low ceiling issue on my test drives. Just something to consider. On the flip side - we have lots of ice and some snow(+ I am a snowboarder and go alot) and this thing goes like a goddamn devil in the snow and ice.

blacklab said:

Not to be the negative guy...but I have a Jeep and I hate it. Not because of the way it runs, comfort level, maintenance, or anything like that.

It's made for SHORT people! I am only 6'0", but my head touches the ceiling of my Grand Cherokee when I sit up straight. I can't see the stop light if I am first in line, I have to hunch down to see when the light is green.

I have a 2004 Grand Cherokee Limited. Obviously a different year from your rig, but I wanted to let you know my experience. I did not notice the low ceiling issue on my test drives. Just something to consider. On the flip side - we have lots of ice and some snow(+ I am a snowboarder and go alot) and this thing goes like a goddamn devil in the snow and ice.

Click to expand...

I am also 6'0" and I've had the Cherokee, Wrangler, Grand Cherokee, and now Liberty. I have to say that I've noticed this as well, but its not nearly enough to make me hate my Jeep. I have driven the Commander about 20 times and that truck seems to be the worst for tall people. In general though, I love Jeeps!

Where's ollllo?:cross:

talleymonster said:

Where's ollllo?:cross:

Click to expand...

Excellent point!

ollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllo where are you?

blacklab said:

It's made for SHORT people! I am only 6'0", but my head touches the ceiling of my Grand Cherokee when I sit up straight. I can't see the stop light if I am first in line, I have to hunch down to see when the light is green.

Click to expand...

Good thing I'm 5'6'"

Well, found a few others around. Any major difference between a 1995 and 1998? I found a top-of-the-line 1995. One owner (the guy is now 68) with 105k, fully loaded (power everything including seats, heated mirrors, and I think he even said moonroof), leather interior, black exterior, 4 door, AT, 4x4... Regular service including all records. Brand new tires and inspection. He only is asking $3k. Seems like the KBB value for one that old... but it makes me feel comfortable to know it was adult owned its entire life.

Thoughts?

RoaringBrewer said:

Well, found a few others around. Any major difference between a 1995 and 1998? I found a top-of-the-line 1995. One owner (the guy is now 68) with 105k, fully loaded (power everything including seats, heated mirrors, and I think he even said moonroof), leather interior, black exterior, 4 door, AT, 4x4... Regular service including all records. Brand new tires and inspection. He only is asking $3k. Seems like the KBB value for one that old... but it makes me feel comfortable to know it was adult owned its entire life.

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

That '95 might be a Grand Cherokee (ZJ from 1993-1998). For some reason, people have a tendency to think the "Grand" part is a trim designation or something and not an entirely different model. As far as I'm aware, the Cherokee was never offered with a moonroof or fancy options such as heated seats and mirrors. Now, he could have had one installed aftermarket, but that's just scary.

The Cherokee (XJ) underwent a redesign in '97. Changes were primarily interior, though there were some mechanical upgrades as well (larger, more efficient intake manifold comes to mind). The '97+ models had a more "Chrysler" interior than the earlier, significantly more spartan models.

capntang said:

That '95 might be a Grand Cherokee (ZJ from 1993-1998). For some reason, people have a tendency to think the "Grand" part is a trim designation or something and not an entirely different model. As far as I'm aware, the Cherokee was never offered with a moonroof or fancy options such as heated seats and mirrors. Now, he could have had one installed aftermarket, but that's just scary.

The Cherokee (XJ) underwent a redesign in '97. Changes were primarily interior, though there were some mechanical upgrades as well (larger, more efficient intake manifold comes to mind). The '97+ models had a more "Chrysler" interior than the earlier, significantly more spartan models.

Click to expand...

Honestly, I can't recall if he said it had a moonroof or not. It was a fairly quick cell-phone call after work. It's listed as a Cherokee only and it definitely has the 4.0 V6, did the Grands have these? I thought he mentioned it was a "Country" version or something, but again, not entirely sure. I do see this was an option on the 1995 Cherokee...

He seemed to know what he was talking about, but he did sound elderly and mentioned he has owned the car for the last 13 years since new and he was either 65 or 68 now... so, he could be losing his marbles or not all together knowledgeable about the vehicle.

But then again, he's owned it for 13 years, so whos to say he's wrong?

I'll let y'all know once I check it out...

the 95 is a grand, limited... Seems like a good price for that? Any drawbacks to the grands?

EDIT: Looked at the Grand today for $3k. Exterior was pretty solid, but the interior had not been cleaned in 13 years, guarenteed. It was quite the mess. Would have taken some elbow grease and a lot of time to recondition the leather, carpets, headliner, and trim. I guess you can't ask for much when looking at a $3k vehicle, but I'm pretty much buying a used car on "feel" of the previous owners, as opposed to amenities and price. If you couldn't clean your car in 13 years and you put about (literally) 17 cigarette burns in the carpet near your shifter, then you probably didn't treat the car all that well...

So, the search continues. I didn't really want a Grand anyway..

The inline-6 was offered in the Grands. They'll have a little more interior space, and the ride may be a little more comfortable (slightly more plush interior, longer wheelbase). You're probably more likely to find features such as antilock brakes on a Grand Cherokee as well.

They'll have a lot more in the way of electrical gadgets, so they might require more constant tinkering. My brother has a couple of ZJs, and it seems as though he spends a lot more time chasing electrical gremlins - some of which prevent the vehicles from starting at all (crappy factory alarm systems on these models).

capntang said:

The inline-6 was offered in the Grands. They'll have a little more interior space, and the ride may be a little more comfortable (slightly more plush interior, longer wheelbase). You're probably more likely to find features such as antilock brakes on a Grand Cherokee as well.

They'll have a lot more in the way of electrical gadgets, so they might require more constant tinkering. My brother has a couple of ZJs, and it seems as though he spends a lot more time chasing electrical gremlins - some of which prevent the vehicles from starting at all (crappy factory alarm systems on these models).

Click to expand...

Thanks, I'm keeping my eye open for the normal Cherokee still (XJ?)... there are two more for me to check out within 20 miles. Just don't have the time to check them out until the weekend.

Yeah, anyone who's anyone refers to the jeeps by their "-J" code designation.

Some of the more popular ones listed here:

CJ - precursor to the Wrangler, produced by AMC, many variations
XJ - Cherokee from 84 to 01 and Wagoneer from 84 to 90
MJ - Comanche compact pickup, 88-92
YJ - Wrangler from 87-95, replaced CJ, square headlamps
TJ - Wrangler, replaced the YJ through 07, back to the more nostalgic round lights
ZJ - Grand Cherokee from 93-98
WJ - Grand Cherokee from 99-04, much more Chrysler influence
KJ - Liberty, independent suspension and a minivan-derived V-6

The new models switched to xK designations, but I don't care for any of them. Personally, I'd still kill for a '79 CJ-7 with any of the AMC V8s and a T-18a transmission. I'd only be able to afford enough gas to drive it once a year, though.

Thanks for the info... definitely looking XJ. Found a few more in the area to check out today... One looks very promising (Black 1999 Cherokee Sport with 3.5" Lift, 31" Tires, 90k Miles, AT, All Power Amenities, Garage-Kept, Two-Owner - all for around $5k), but there are several I am going to check out.

The lift and tires would be nice, the vehicle looks immaculate, but I was planning to NOT mod this vehicle as I already have a "toy"...

I worked at the local Jeep dealership from 2000-2002, and I would absolutely never own a Grand Cherokee. The list of recurring problems is long and expensive.

The Cherokees aren't quite as bad, but it was very common for them to drop window regulators, axle bearings, pinion seals, rear main seals, brake rotors, fuel level sending units/fuel pumps, and especially head gaskets on the inline 4.0Liter.

I'm sure all vehicles have their problems, but I just don't think I could trust a Jeep. Whatever you do, don't buy a Grand.

Sorry if I've rained on your parade.

bob

Man. I'm jealous of you I-6 owners now. My '00 Mountaineer with 5.0 V8 gets 11mpg city and 15mpg highway, with only 90k on it. Summer with the A/C on, it lowers to 8mpg city and 11mpg highway. I can't bear to think what my mileage is going to be like once I've got 150k on it. Damn you Ford!!

Anyways. Back to lurking and wishing I had a Jeep.

Hey! I seriously am driving an identical one to the OP. Thought that might be relevent.

I own a '99 XJ and LOVE it. (Except the mileage). I got it because a friend had a '96 and he gave it to his parents when it rang up 300,000 miles with nary a fault. They are basic, rugged, dependable, and repairable. You will get more problems with certain components, but that is due mostly to the abuse they get.

Mine broke a window regulator, and the same for my 2000 Durango. They used plastic where some real metal was necessary. I replaced myself. I also lost the bearing on my AC Clutch, and replaced myself. That's about it. Just rolled 100K.

I got mine due to having two kids and needing to be able to pull a trailer or small boat, and the 4-wheel is nice in the winter, or if I want to go off the road on occasion.