Storing yeast: boil or Starsan

It seems a lot of literature out there suggests sanitizing the jars used to store yeast by putting them in boiling water.

What's wrong with Starsan? Isn't that good enough? It's good enough for my 5 gallon carboy so why not my 12 oz. beer bottles used to store yeast?

Boiling just makes everything easier. If your harvesting yeast you need sterile water anyway, why not boil your jars in water, fill the now sterile jars with sterile water, close, and chill for future harvesting.

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If you are storing yeast I would not consider it without a pressure cooker (aka poor mans autoclave). Boiling does not sterilize it only sanitizes. Canned or pressure cooked water/Wort will not harbor any bacteria or yeast spores or colonies where boiling will leave some things alive.

Also why books and websites say to boil not star san, one thing I can think of star san does not kill yeast, as it wild yeast. Being an acid it only kills bacteria and mold.

Clem

+1 what clem said

I see a lot of people who use star san and wonder why they get infected beer (wild yeast mostly). I personally use a chlorine based sanitiser, not only does it make everything nice and shiny white, I think it does a much better job of killing off stuff.

Also much better for stuff like my bottling bucket... if I am bottling a beer made with a 70% attenuating yeast, I don't want any 85% attenuating yeast from the last batch I bottled it into the bottles or I'm gonna end up with bottle bombs.

I agree with the poster above. I've tried many times to save the last dregs of my brew sessions for use in future starters. I would boil the wort and sanitize my materials meticulously only to find an infection in the container a month later. I've even tried boiling, then sanitizing with Iodophor. Bacteria, viruses, wild yeast, etc. are everywhere. Without an autoclave to kill wild spores, you will inevitably get an infection.

dragonbreath11 said:

I agree with the poster above. I've tried many times to save the last dregs of my brew sessions for use in future starters. I would boil the wort and sanitize my materials meticulously only to find an infection in the container a month later. I've even tried boiling, then sanitizing with Iodophor. Bacteria, viruses, wild yeast, etc. are everywhere. Without an autoclave to kill wild spores, you will inevitably get an infection.

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not sure why you had so much trouble, I've stored washed yeast for months (others have gone longer) without any issues just using boiling.

Clementine said:

If you are storing yeast I would not consider it without a pressure cooker (aka poor mans autoclave). Boiling does not sterilize it only sanitizes. Canned or pressure cooked water/Wort will not harbor any bacteria or yeast spores or colonies where boiling will leave some things alive.

Also why books and websites say to boil not star san, one thing I can think of star san does not kill yeast, as it wild yeast. Being an acid it only kills bacteria and mold.

Clem

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Ensure your pressure cooker can reach at least 15psi though! When I store yeast it's not the wild yeast or bacterium i fear...it's the mold I fear the most.

ChillWill said:

+1 what clem said

I see a lot of people who use star san and wonder why they get infected beer (wild yeast mostly). I personally use a chlorine based sanitiser, not only does it make everything nice and shiny white, I think it does a much better job of killing off stuff.

Also much better for stuff like my bottling bucket... if I am bottling a beer made with a 70% attenuating yeast, I don't want any 85% attenuating yeast from the last batch I bottled it into the bottles or I'm gonna end up with bottle bombs.

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ChillWill, I use Star San religiously and I've only had two infections (brett) but I found the reason behind those ones. Since then I've never had an infection (yet). lol, as for chlorine based sanitizers..I only use them when friends hand me moldy bottles and I need to let them soak for 48 hours in a chlorine solution.

dcp27 said:

not sure why you had so much trouble, I've stored washed yeast for months (others have gone longer) without any issues just using boiling.

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EXACTLY!

Cool, I like a good discussion, hearing about other peoples processes.

I can only speak from my experiences and the reason I pressure cook all my wort and just about anything I can, is heat is cheaper than chemicals and leaves no residue. Although you might be able to rid your stored stuff from all germs why risk it for the cost of a $40 pressure cooker.

To add some fuel to debate, for decades people have been canning fruit and vegetables if just boiling was OK then why would over the decades people go to all that trouble? Did you hear about the french guy who invented a pressure cooker he blew the first few up... what a mess!

Clem

Clementine said:

To add some fuel to debate, for decades people have been canning fruit and vegetables if just boiling was OK then why would over the decades people go to all that trouble?

Clem

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Pressure cookers are used to can low acid foods to destroy any botulism spores which are only destroyed at temperatures above that of boiling water. At a ph of less than 4.6, the spores cannot survive therefore a boiling water bath is sufficient to can high acid foods like pickles.

foomanchu said:

Pressure cookers are used to can low acid foods to destroy any botulism spores which are only destroyed at temperatures above that of boiling water. At a ph of less than 4.6, the spores cannot survive therefore a boiling water bath is sufficient to can high acid foods like pickles.

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Thanks for the info there I knew canning killed the bad stuff I was not sure why somethings required it while others did not. So the PH of my mash is around 5.2 so does that mean the wort would have the same PH and therefore it benefits from the canning process? I have never check the PH of the wort prior to pitching.

Clem

Clementine said:

Thanks for the info there I knew canning killed the bad stuff I was not sure why somethings required it while others did not. So the PH of my mash is around 5.2 so does that mean the wort would have the same PH and therefore it benefits from the canning process? I have never check the PH of the wort prior to pitching.

Clem

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pH of beer is usually around 4, but if were talking washing yeast, its basically gunna be whatever your water is. since the yeast is going to be stored cold and pretty airtight with basically no nutrients, oxygen or sugar, I don't think going as far as canning is needed for the amount of time washed yeast is usually kept around.

I guess I just have bad luck because everytime I have some last runnings left over from a brewing sessions I boil it, sanitize my materials, and store it in my basement. Needless to say the wort always gets infected perhaps as one poster mentioned it's mold but I dunno.

I freeze my left overs. Then boil for 15 min with a bit of nutrient for the starter.

The other reason for boiling your water when you go to make a yeast bank is to remove all stray oxygen from the water. You want the yeast to go dormant and the lack of O2 makes them do just that. No food and no O2, time for the yeasties to take a nap!