Oatmeal Stout Recipe - Comments/Suggestions

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BugAC

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I'm formulating an oatmeal stout recipe at the moment. I'm also using some commercial examples of stouts (not necessarily oatmeal) for ideas such as Oskar Blues Ten Fiddy, and Jester King Black Metal.

Here is what i have so far. Let me know your comments/concerns/suggestions.

SG - 1.065-1.068

Grains
79% Maris Otter
8% Flaked Oats (or oatmeal toasted in oven)
4% Roasted Barley
4% Coffee Malt
5% Chocolate Malt

Hops - IBU's 35-45, BU/SG Ratio - .6
1 oz. E. Kent Goldings (60 minutes)
.5 to .75 oz. Millenium (60 minutes)
**willing to take any hop addition suggestions. Timing/dry hopping/etc...

Yeast
Irish Ale or English Yeast
(haven't really looked into the yeast too much yet. Suggestions wanted)
 
Have you figured out a targeted SRM, IBU, and FG (or for that matter, BU:GU) for the recipe? I'd want to know a little more about what you're thinking this would be, other than just "stout." For example, if you're using most English yeasts with an OG of 1.065ish, may get a fair amount of residual sweetness (since they tend to be low-attenuating); is that what you're aiming for?

But on to some ideas. I wouldn't use the EKG at 60; they are really best as an aroma/flavor hop, and you could add them in the 10-20 minute mark for a bit of that. Of course, most stouts don't have that much in the way of hop aroma or flavor, so you could also just cut them entirely.

Not sure I would go for Carafa in a stout. I typically use debittered black when I am adjusting color in a beer for which the roast flavor of normal black malt would be a problem. But in a stout, you usually want some roastiness. And if you want to make a stout that has that kind of color and flavor profile but without the harshness, I think the best way to do it is by technique, not ingredients: you can cold steep the dark grains, rather than mash them hot, and add the liquid to the end of the boil. All of that said, it's not like it will ruin your beer; I just don't think it's what I would use.
 
Have you figured out a targeted SRM, IBU,or for that matter, BU:GU

It's listed above

SRM - no preference
BU/GU - .6
IBU -40-45
FG - 1.16 - 1.18

I want a mid level attenuation. I don't want it finishing out too dry. I want to keep it around 1.018.

I'm using the de-bittered black carafa instead of roasted barley to give it a smoother taste, rather than a more bitter taste. But i have been contemplating using 1/2 roasted barly and 1/2 de-bittered black carafa. I just don't want to muddle up the grain bill too much.
 
I guess my question i have

What are the pros/cons between de-bittered black carafa III and roasted barley. I know roasted barley is more bitter, and carafa is supposed to be smoother than barley but with similar tastes.
 
Also, in regards to hopping.

I know it's a stout, so you don't want a strong hop presence, so you want to focus on bittering hops, rather than aroma hopping. Is there any advantages to late addition hops/dry hopping in a stout?
 
The debittered black has less bitterness and also less general harshness, but it also has less roast flavor. But in a stout, you want roast flavor. That's why I recommend cold-steeping roasted barley and adding at the end of the boil, which (like cold brewing coffee) gives you a lot of the roast flavor, but less harshness.

I wouldn't say that there are exactly pros or cons to flavor/aroma/dry hopping in a stout. It's like any beer that has those additions. I don't think I have had a dry-hopped stout, but anything COULD work. Then again, I feel like when I have a stout, I want to focus on the roast, dark flavors, not hop kind of flavors.

As for the yeast, just think about what flavors you want to highlight. If you want some fruity esters, go for an English strain and ferment it around 70F. If you want it to be cleaner, go for an Irish or Scottish strain and ferment it cooler--mid 60s or even lower. None of those should attenuate too much.
 
Like motorneuron said, I wouldn't use de-husked Carafa III in a stout. From my experience and what I've read, it doesn't give a lot of roasty flavor. It's more for color adjustments in things that you don't really want to have any roasted flavor in. It's used extensively to this end in Black IPAs. I think it will give a light roast aroma but not much more. Not really what you want in a stout which is defined by roast flavor. Roasted barley, in my opinion, is essential in a stout. As long as you don't use too much it's not going to be too bitter.
 
Like motorneuron said, I wouldn't use de-husked Carafa III in a stout. From my experience and what I've read, it doesn't give a lot of roasty flavor. It's more for color adjustments in things that you don't really want to have any roasted flavor in. It's used extensively to this end in Black IPAs. I think it will give a light roast aroma but not much more. Not really what you want in a stout which is defined by roast flavor. Roasted barley, in my opinion, is essential in a stout. As long as you don't use too much it's not going to be too bitter.

Well initially i had roasted barley, but i switched it for carafa due to some recommendations. I may switch back to roast barley. And maybe up the percentage from 6 to 8%.
 
One more question. In regards to the oats.

I use austinhomebrew supply for my ingredients. Is there a difference between using the flaked oats from the shop, or buying my own from the store and roasting them in an oven?
 
One more question. In regards to the oats.

I use austinhomebrew supply for my ingredients. Is there a difference between using the flaked oats from the shop, or buying my own from the store and roasting them in an oven?

No. Quick oats would be perfect to use, and probably cheaper than the flaked oats from the brewstore.
 
No. Quick oats would be perfect to use, and probably cheaper than the flaked oats from the brewstore.

I've read in either designing great beers, or brew your own, that when you add oats, it's recommended to roast the oats, then let them sit for a week or so, to make sure none of the chemicals/conversions impart anything in your beer.

Is this really applicable, or is this for certain types of oats?
 
6% oatmeal is on the low side, IMO. most oatmeal stout recipes are closer to 10%, if not over. 6% should give you a hint of the silkiness but personally i prefer more.

suggestion: drop the 6% carafa, use 2-3% roast barley and increase the chocolate malt 2-3%.
 
I've read in either designing great beers, or brew your own, that when you add oats, it's recommended to roast the oats, then let them sit for a week or so, to make sure none of the chemicals/conversions impart anything in your beer.

Is this really applicable, or is this for certain types of oats?

Randy Mosher recommends exactly this in Radical Brewing. I think it's a nice idea; I have done it myself. So yeah, just roast oatmeal until it's golden, then let it sit for a few days at least to let the harsh flavors waft away. (Letting it sit is more important the darker you roast, so if you're just toasting for 15-20 minutes, a day or two is probably fine in a pinch.)
 
Randy Mosher recommends exactly this in Radical Brewing. I think it's a nice idea; I have done it myself. So yeah, just roast oatmeal until it's golden, then let it sit for a few days at least to let the harsh flavors waft away. (Letting it sit is more important the darker you roast, so if you're just toasting for 15-20 minutes, a day or two is probably fine in a pinch.)

I was planning on roasting at 300 for about 45 minutes
 
I was planning on roasting at 300 for about 45 minutes

I'd have to check in Radical Brewing, but I think his advice is to roast at around 350 for "20 or 30 minutes, until they smell like cookies." 45 sounds a bit long to me, but maybe I'm thinking of the wrong temperature. Anyway, it's easy, so no sweat, and highly recommended (from me). I'll check when I get home.
 
I'd have to check in Radical Brewing, but I think his advice is to roast at around 350 for "20 or 30 minutes, until they smell like cookies." 45 sounds a bit long to me, but maybe I'm thinking of the wrong temperature. Anyway, it's easy, so no sweat, and highly recommended (from me). I'll check when I get home.

I have the book too. Maybe that's where i got that from.
 
That's a pretty cool policy there on recipe sharing.


Interesting comment on toasting the oats. I've only made one oatmeal stout, but I didn't toast the oats prior to mashing. Other than the cookie like aroma you get from toasting, what does the toasting really bring to the party? Does it change the potential specific gravity point contribution of the oats through carmelization?
I'm planning a stab at KBS using between 8-9% quick oats in the grist, per the zymurgy rough approximation recipe. Wondering if I should bother a light toast or not.

One thing I will not be doing again is the pulverizing of the roasted barley. I did this on a previous brew an ended up gumming up my mash to the point that my recirculation kept getting plugged up. Single infusion in cooler might consider crushing the RB in a coffee mill for instance, if you're not recirculating the mash continuously. Read that in a special feature BYO article about doing dry Irish stout, which isn't the same as an oatmeal stout I realize. It is said to promote long lasting roasted aromas in the glass.

TD
 
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