Hello form Kitchener, Ontario

This morning my wife asked if I wanted to make some fruit beer using the 4 quart basket of cherries she purchased yesterday at the market. It sounded like a good chance to make some fruit flavored wheat beer that would be ready by mid summer. So I took her up on the offer.

Background - I moved back to Ontario from Florida about 4 years ago and have spent more time making wine than brewing beer (2 rows of grapes in the backyard and 200 bottles in the wine rack). I started brewing about 10 years ago and at the peak brewed almost every weekend, but have only made about 4 batches in the last 4 years. The last being a cranberry ale, using a hopped kit (in desperation) last fall.

I hadn't noticed any brew supply places around town, but thought I should be able to scare up some pale malt extract, wheat malt extract and hops within an hours drive. I was wrong. All I could find were some hopped kits and a number of brew-on-premises sites. Forget about a selection of hops (a worldwide hops shortage!) and a selection of grains for a partial mash. What was I to do? I guess I was spoiled in Orlando where I could drop by Hearts and get whatever I needed on the spot. If I called ahead they would even smack the Wyeast pack for me so I wouldn't have to rush.

I did find a place in Fergus, about 45 minutes away, that would sell me 25kg bags of malt, if I could get there by 2:30. (It is a holiday weekend here). So off I went. I ended up buying a bags of pilsner, carapils, maris otter and light wheat. (I figured with high gas prices I should stock-up.) Came to about 220 bones for 100kg. I remember when I could get a bag of 2 row for $20! Interesting that they didn't have any Canadian malt. I guess everyone has switched to Corn for Ethanol. I plan to make a few specialty malts by roasting the maris otter and carapils using some instructions I have from a home brewer in Australia.

Next I needed to find hops. I stopped by a Brew-On-Premises place in Waterloo that had sold me hops about 3 years ago. No luck this time. They told me they were reserving all their hops for their high-margin customers. I was starting to think that those cherries were about to become jam instead of beer.

Luckily I found about 8 ounces of Cascades in the freezer that seemed to be well preserved in several layers of sealed Mylar bags. Otherwise I'll need to wait for $5/once hops to come by mail-order in Canada or pay a large brokerage fee if they come from the US. (A found a wide variety of hop plants at a nearby Nursery and plan to pick up a dozen plants on the weekend).

Now I need to crush the grain. (Should have thought about this when I was buying the grain). In the past used a friends Phil's Mill or would just have Hearts crush it. Instead I went to rummage through the surplus section at Princess Auto (like Harbor Freight in the US combined with a surplus store). Managed to find 2 aluminum rollers that look just like the ones in Phil's Mill only bigger. I will finish the crusher in the morning (found some good info on this site) and should be able to start brewing by noon.

My old mash setup was a RIMS (recirculating infusion mash system) that I had put together with 2 brew buddies in Orlando. Tomorrow I'll be using a Coleman cooler instead. Good to get back to basics! I'll report back on how I make out.

One last thing - Yeast. No Wyeast here. I did manage to find a generic package of ale yeast though. I guess I'll have to start washing and culturing yeast again as well

Cheers,
Paul

PS If anyone lives nearby and knows of a good hop supplier or wants to get together for a bulk purchase, please let me know.

*Waves from across the St. Clair River*

You probably can't see me, 'cause Sarnia is in the way.

Welcome to HBT!

Welcome to the board palayman
Kitchener is good for Oktoberfest
Sounds like you know what you doing reading over your post...I feel your pain when it comes to hops
Just prepping for all grain myself.

Cheers
BeerCanuck

Howdy Neighbor! I'm just down the road in Guelph. And I definitely know your pain in the LHBS area (as does most Canadians members I imagine). I assume the place in Fergus you're referring to is Gilbertson & Page. They specialize in imports but my latest price list from them lists both Canadian 2-row ($35) and Canadian Wheat ($40), but maybe they were out of stock at the Fergus location.

Hops are tricky too, I use a place just up the road from me here in town and he has a not too bad selection. Discovering Wine and Beer (214 Speedvale Ave, Unit 5, 519.837.0624), he doesn't have a lot of beer stuff but he does stock extract, some specialty grains (not much) and hops as I said. He's actually a wine and beer on premises but he's happy to sell to the homebrewer, he's a great guy and knows his stuff. If you happen to go there, tell him Brad sent you.

For stuff I don't want in bulk (I live in an apartment so 3 sacks is pretty much my storage limit and right now it's vienna, munich and maris otter) I go to a place down in Hamilton called Brewtime. They're a BOP but they do all grain brewing and they have a not too-bad selection of grains (nothing exotic though). Their hops prices aren't too bad and they carry WhiteLabs (though again, not a huge selection but they'll get in anything you want when they put in their own orders). The head brewer is a young guy that's very knowledgeable and is happy to talk shop.

I just got 3 new sacks of grain that will take me a while to get through but I'd definitely be interested in a 'group' buy at some point!

Brad,

Thanks for the tips about local (Guelph / Hamilton) suppliers. I may
head over to Discovering Wine and Beer today before I brew. Cascade's
weren't the ideal Hops for what I have planned. I'll also make a point of stopping by Brewtime the next time I pass through Hamilton.

It's funny that it was a friend here in Kitchener that introduced me to Home Brew about 10 years ago. While visiting us at our summer place in Bayfield, he brought along a variety of his recent creations. (All bottled in PET and nameless - just batch numbers, 101, 102, 103 and 104 written on the caps.) I was impressed and brewed my first batch, an IPA, within a week of returning home to Orlando. A partial mash. My next batch was all grain and within a couple of months the RIMS system was built and I was brewing in 15 gallon batches. I thought when I moved back here he could help me find supplies, as I was sure he would be doing all grain as well, considering how good that Home Brew tasted. Turns out he just uses kits he buys at the local hardware store. Go figure.

Paul

Im trying to get off the extract teat...its pretty hard when there is a Vineco extract kit distributer couple blocks away.

Im interested in a group buy of bulk ingredients and hop grow/swap next year.

Cheers
BeerCanuck

BeerCanuck,

Did you end up planting any hops? It was your post where I found out about Richters and am planning a trip tomorrow.

Cheers,
Paul

I was actually just down at Brewtime today. I picked up a wit yeast (WLP400) and a london ale yeast (WLP013) to play with along with some malted rye, caraamber, and crystal 60. 2KG of each of those and the 2 yeasts was about 45 bucks I think. Plus of course the gas to get down there and back which is the main reason I don't go much anymore.

If you go to Brewtime be sure to try the Italian place in the plaza next door, amazing panini's and pasta.

I use to live up in Hamilton when I was going to Mohawk College...never visited Brew Time..I use to get 12 packs of black label care packs from the folks who shopped at Tops.

I wanted to plant this year...holding off till spring.

I got a few spots in mind for the hops

Cheers
BeerCanuck

Well, here it is late Tuesday night and I still haven't managed to brew my cherry wheat beer yet. Good thing I froze the cherries. I did manage to find some hops and they are planted and starting to grow up the 20 ft hop twines I installed on either side of my office windows. (I am looking forward to the smell drifting in the window later this summer). I have completed conversion of my cooler to a mash tun using 4' of stainless braid from a dish washer water line and even completed my grain mill using the aluminum rollers I picked up at Princess auto. It did an excellent job of crushing 9 lbs of grain for my cherry wheat beer and cost me less than $40. Would have brewed today, but forgot that I didn't have a kettle large enough to boil 6+ gallons of wort. Looks like tomorrow is the big day.

Wish me luck!

Paul

PS I have upgraded my account and attached a couple of pics.

Wow you work quickly palayman
The hops/mash tun/mill look good.

Cheers
BeerCanuck

Its nice to see so many people from southern ontario here. I'm just beginning the research phase of beer making, but plan on making my first batch in the next few weeks. right now I'm trying to drink enough beer that I'll have bottles to fill . nice to meet you all.

John

jspence1 said:

Its nice to see so many people from southern ontario here. I'm just beginning the research phase of beer making, but plan on making my first batch in the next few weeks. right now I'm trying to drink enough beer that I'll have bottles to fill . nice to meet you all.

John

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Welcome to HBT!

Be sure to check out Brewtime that I linked above, it's probably your best bet in Hamilton, I even drive down to there from Guelph when I need things.

palayman just wondering if you got the hop plant at Richters ..that Hop looks like its starting nicely
I am interested in getting some Centennial Hops as well if I can find them for next season.

jspence1 ...welcome to the board...I wouldn't let bottles hold you back from brewing. I like using 2 litre soda bottles, it holds 4+ pints and fits in the fridge nicely.

Cheers
BeerCanuck

Canada Day Fireworks from Sarnia! Shot from the roof of my loft.

It's finally beer!

7:00PM Started getting everything ready. Calculated strike temp for step mash (140/168). Began heating water.

7:55PM Hit 140 bang on the nose with .75 quarts per pound (6.75 quarts @ 167 for 9 lbs grain).

8:10PM Stirred mash. Still at 140 (thinking this should be a great night).

8:25PM 3 quarts at 210 to raise the mash to 158. But wait, I'm only at 149? Must be the thermometer. Grab another. Then another. Eventually have 4 in the mash. Original seems to be correct. What went wrong? Must not have added enough water. Did I not add it up correctly? Add the extra water I have heated, but it's only enough to raise it to 150. Start to heat some more. No way - the propane tank is empty. I guess we will have a long rest at 150.

9:30PM Back with a filled tank. But now the regulator connection to the tank leaks badly. Notice that the O-ring is missing. Find one on my garage heater and install it on the burner. Still leaking. Looks like my son dropped the end on the floor when he disconnected. Need to sand it smooth again. After fiddling for a while we are back in business.

9:50PM I'm concerned that if I try another water addition to step it up to 168 (from 148 now) that I won't have enough sparge water. Quickly calculate that I need about 2 quarts boiled for a decoction step to 158. Oops, I forgot about the grain and only got to 154. Calculate another quart but first let it sit here for 15 minutes.

10:05PM Second decoction gets it to 158 finally. Will leave it here for 25 minutes.

10:30PM Sparge at 170 starts - 20 quarts per hour. I made a sparge manifold during the last decoction rest and it is working great.

11:30PM Grain seems to be retaining more water than calculated. Need some more sparge water. Grain bed doesn't look right. Some whole kernels of wheat and barley on top.

12:00AM Have 5.5 gallons for boil. Quick read of hydrometer says 1.034 @ 125F. Corrected to 60F this is 1.046 and if I correct to 5 gallons after boil I have 1.0495. I am beating the 70% efficiency I was predicting by a mile. Stainless braid works like a charm. Clearest wort I've ever had! Grain bed must be OK.

12:05AM Wort is boiling. Some Cascades go in. What a great aroma! But how am I to chill the wort? My son claims I have some 1/2" copper tubing in the basement. He was right and we even mange to find a fitting to connect the hose to it. By 12:45 we have an immersion chiller.

1:05AM Second addition of Cascades. Looks like I'm boiling off a lot more than expected.

1:20AM Drop the chiller into the boiling wort.

1:35AM The boil is done. Start chilling. Down to 60F in about 10 minutes. (I guess tap water is much colder here than in Orlando. Could never get it below 80F there). Need to add 2 gallons of water to get it back to 5 gallons. Check the gravity and it is only 1.042. My efficiency sucks and apparently I can't do some basic math either. I look at the grain bed again and there are lots of whole grains. Need to set the mill smaller next time. No need to worry about getting stuck easily with the stainless braid in the mash tun.

1:40AM Pitch the yeast and we have beer. It's late. I tired. Do some very basic cleanup and head for bed.

It didn't go as well as I planned - but there is always the next time. (My son calculated we have enough grain on hand for over 1000 bottles.) In a couple of days I'll add the cherries to the secondary.

Happy brewing,
Paul

Trials and Tribulations on the brew ..Paul
I admire your tenaciousness

Hope it turns out well

Cheers
BeerCanuck

Exciting maiden voyage of the new gear! From my experiences with the stainless braid, unless your mill will give you actual barley flour you won't stick a sparge. So crush until you're scared. Sounds like you're fly sparging though so you might want to think about another method of wort separation. The braid is fantastic for batch sparging but with fly sparging it channels like crazy - that will be one of the causes of your poor efficiency.

You might want to consider some brewing software to make the math easier. Both promash and Beersmith have free trial versions.

bradsul said:

Welcome to HBT!

Be sure to check out Brewtime that I linked above, it's probably your best bet in Hamilton, I even drive down to there from Guelph when I need things.

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Thanks I stopped in there last night, but the place was really busy. I went to the one on upper james maybe I'll check out the other store next time.

John

bradsul said:

Exciting maiden voyage of the new gear! From my experiences with the stainless braid, unless your mill will give you actual barley flour you won't stick a sparge. So crush until you're scared. Sounds like you're fly sparging though so you might want to think about another method of wort separation. The braid is fantastic for batch sparging but with fly sparging it channels like crazy - that will be one of the causes of your poor efficiency.

You might want to consider some brewing software to make the math easier. Both promash and Beersmith have free trial versions.

Click to expand...

?! boy am I glad I ordered how to brew from chapters i didn't understand one word of that lol

JOhn

jspence1 said:

Thanks I stopped in there last night, but the place was really busy. I went to the one on upper james maybe I'll check out the other store next time.

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That's the one I use all the time. I've never been there during the week but on Saturday it's not too busy. I usually talk shop with the head brewer (young guy), he knows his stuff.

jspence1 said:

?! boy am I glad I ordered how to brew from chapters i didn't understand one word of that lolte=jspence1;739272]?! boy am I glad I ordered how to brew from chapters i didn't understand one word of that lol

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By the time you read howtobrew a couple times you'll be in great shape, that book is fantastic!

I had no idea what you meant by "fly sparging". Had to do a little Googling to figure it out and the answer is, yes I was - sort of. I was adding 1 quart of sparge water every 3 minuter and drawing off 1 quart of wort. Didn't notice any channeling and am sure that I was getting an even distribution of the sparge water over the bed. From what I read quickly, fly sparging should result in higher conversion efficiency than batch sparging. (Hope I'm not setting off a fire storm here).

After looking at the grain again this morning I am sure that it was a problem with the mill being set too coarsely.

As for the math I've checked it all again today and have to conclude that it was measurement error. I'll have a look at some software though.

Paul

a belated welcome from another canuck
i get my grains from gilbertson and page as well. last year it was 19.00 for a bag of whole 2 row and this april it was 36.00.
got my hop plants from richters as well

palayman said:

From what I read quickly, fly sparging should result in higher conversion efficiency than batch sparging. (Hope I'm not setting off a fire storm here).

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Oh geez... maybe if we all pretend you didn't say that; I know I'm gonna whistle a bit and nonchalantly kick some stones around on the ground.... Don't get started about your aluminum pot, either.


Welcome back. Glad to have another countryman on board. Now that you've made that fruit beer abomination for your wife, how about nice macho real beer for yourself? :cross:

Fingers said:

Don't get started about your aluminum pot, either.

... Now that you've made that fruit beer abomination for your wife, how about nice macho real beer for yourself? :cross:

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How did you know I was using an Aluminum pot?

Ya, my son decided on a Macho fruit beer since we had so many cherries. His plans are for a Chocolate/Cherry Stout. We just finished roasting some grains for tomorrow's event. I hope it goes smoother. I think the biggest problem with the last brew night was we weren't drinking any beer and the Beer Gods were offended.

Paul

Thanks for the heads up on brewtime I went there this morning and was well cared for. I have an appointment with them to make some beer next saturday in their store. It sounds like its going to be a real learning time for me they said it would take about 3.5 hours we're going to do everything including milling the grain. I find it amazing that they will be willing to spend that much time with me to prepare a batch of beer for $100. Its a steal an A-Z beer making lesson and 6 cases of beer

John

bradsul said:

Hops are tricky too, I use a place just up the road from me here in town and he has a not too bad selection. Discovering Wine and Beer (214 Speedvale Ave, Unit 5, 519.837.0624), he doesn't have a lot of beer stuff but he does stock extract, some specialty grains (not much) and hops as I said. He's actually a wine and beer on premises but he's happy to sell to the homebrewer, he's a great guy and knows his stuff. If you happen to go there, tell him Brad sent you.

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Brad,

I finally made it to this place today. Thanks so much for the tip. The guy was great and he had a good selection of hops that were even reasonably priced. I'm sure I'll be back.

In the mean time I brewed a Chocolate/Cherry Stout today with my son using some of the hops we purchased. Managed to figure out the error in my excel spreadsheet and temperatures worked out fine. Set the mill finer and managed to get 76% efficiency even with a couple of pounds of flaked and roasted barley in the mix (1.074 OG). I'm getting back in the swing of things again.

Cheers,
Paul

Glad to be of service!

That's a big stout, I'm addicted to session beers so I rarely make anything > 1.045. I'm contemplating a RIS (on the low end) for the end of the summer so it's ready for winter however.

bradsul said:

Glad to be of service!

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In case you're interested, I did manage to find a Brew on Premise place called "Just Brew It" here in Kitchener at 313 Lawrence Ave (519-743-6262), that will sell Hops, some grains, LME and some other supplies to home brewers. The owner, named Mike, was friendly and helpful but not very knowledgeable. He was surprised to meet someone that was doing all-grain at home. He didn't start out as a home brewer, but rather a employee of the former owner of the shop.

I managed to score some lager yeast (dry), 3 oz of what looked like very fresh Saaz Hops (a little reluctance since he his distributor told him he will not be able to get any more) and 3 lbs of LME for $20 (tax in). No itemized bill, but this seems very fair.

Paul

Sounds like a nice score palayman
I just got my hops 1lb of tettnager, 4 oz of northern brewer and some 5.2 stabilizer from Skinaney I will be doing my first AG this weekend. Im still looking for a distributer that sell fermcap in Ontario, no luck so far.

Cheers
BeerCanuck