sake/beer hybrid ideas??

Just got a sake "kit" from nothern brewer for christmas. Includes packet of "fine" koji-kin, Wyeast Sake #9 pack, and some citric acid.

Looking for a way to incorporate into beer and was thinking something like CBC did here:
http://cambridgebrewing.com/blog/details/sake-beer.-banryu-ichi-2012/

So I'd make a moto (I guess the equivalent of a yeast starter, should take a couple weeks) and rack wort on top in the carboy. Not sure about the wort recipe yet but seems like rice presence would be appropriate and I've got Sorachi Ace on hand to add to the Japanese theme....

Any ideas or input??

Might want to use a couple pounds of Flaked rice in the beer recipe, Sorachi Ace hops are going to give it a lemon hint, If you don't want that, I would go with Saaz (very popular flavor hop in Japanese beers). Most Japanese beers are light body so you might also want use pilsner malt in the recipe

Beer + sake = fancy malt liqour!

Joking aside, could turn out tasting like malt liquor I guess but worth a try!

So maybe something like 80% Pilsner with 2 lbs of flaked rice and some sort of specialty malt to add color and complexity.
Not much bitterness but Saaz and a touch of Sorachi as late additions?

Look up the DFH Chateau Jiahu clone.
http://byo.com/stories/recipeindex/...al-beer/450-dogfish-heads-chateau-jiahu-clone

And try a bottle, it's good.
http://www.dogfish.com/brews-spirits/the-brews/occassional-rarities/chateau-jiahu.htm

Said I was done with the pricey bottles for the year but might have to give that a try to see what I like from it. Think I'd want to keep the gravity lower but some honey could replace specialty malts if assertive enough

fightingfreuds said:

Said I was done with the pricey bottles for the year but might have to give that a try to see what I like from it. Think I'd want to keep the gravity lower but some honey could replace specialty malts if assertive enough

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I had planned to do this beer/sake/wine/hybrid, but the ingredients are expensive; especially the powder and the muscat. Pricey and you are left with a lot of left over material. That's why I never carried through. Also because I didn't want to screw up an expensive brew while I'm on my first year. But I do recommend tasting that beer even though it's $15 to $20 a pop. Women enjoy that drink so be sure to share.

Good luck with your experimentation with sake yeast!

Isn't Budweiser a beer/sake hybrid, since it uses rice and malted barley?
You could always make an adjunct lager with rice, but why try to mix the styles? Make sake, and make beer.

I think the Sake yeast would be the defining contribution, especially with the whole moto starter step.... at the very least it sounds artisinal

You should try hitachino nest red rice ale. It's made with rice and sake yeast. It's interesting.

JRems said:

You should try hitachino nest red rice ale. It's made with rice and sake yeast. It's interesting.

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Thanks, looks like there were some cloning efforts that were thinking of something similar to this. I've definitely seen that bottle before, I'll look out for it and probably pick it up next time I do.

Also if your in the boston area you should check out the cambridge brewing company because they recently made a sake beer hybrid that looks delicious! They call it banryu ichi.

JBK said:

Also if your in the boston area you should check out the cambridge brewing company because they recently made a sake beer hybrid that looks delicious! They call it banryu ichi.

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Yea I did find that page while searching and ended up using their idea. I made what was essentially a starter, referred to as a yeast mash (steamed rice, citric acid, sake yeast, and koji that I had made). Let ferment for a week, then pitched on wort featuring mostly pils malt and about a pound of red rice, single hop sorachi ace. Within 12 hours there was some pretty strong signs of fermentation, temp is at about 62 and now a week later it's starting to slow down. Going to raise the temp a few degrees for a few days and take a sample.....

I'm cold crashing this today, had a taste of a sample and it's pretty reminiscent of a belgian pale ale (fruity phenols/esters) with some noticeable rice character. Interesting, not exactly what I was expecting but I guess it makes sense with the fruit-like character that sakes develop

How has this beer aged and did it turn out? Also, what ABV did you end up at? I saw the article in Zymurgy about sake brewing a few months ago and thought that this would be something fun and different to do...

JBK said:

Also if your in the boston area you should check out the cambridge brewing company because they recently made a sake beer hybrid that looks delicious! They call it banryu ichi.

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It's quite good. Though, to be honest I've only ordered it once.

keesimps said:

How has this beer aged and did it turn out? Also, what ABV did you end up at? I saw the article in Zymurgy about sake brewing a few months ago and thought that this would be something fun and different to do...

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Had a couple bottles lying around until maybe April, so didn't exactly let it age much. Not much of a noticeable difference in those months, except slightly more fruity yeast character coming through probably due to hop character dropping out. All in all was fine don't think the rice added much, didn't get the red hues I was hopping for. Personally didn't think it was too different from a Belgian Pale, if I were to do it again I'd try something more interesting for the malt bill.

Believe OG was around 1.055 and attenuated very well down to 1.006 I believe, Abv would be 6.43%. No noticeable "boozyness".

Ok; yeah, based on your comments and those of Cambridge Brewing's, I decided to embrace the Belgian characteristics, so am going to do a tripel with a more robust malt bill and a combination of wild rice and regular. Now, just have to get it into the queue... Thanks for the response and inspiration!

Awesome, if you decide to build the yeast up using a rice starter method be sure to cherish the smell of moldy cheese, it'll stick with you for a while

That's exactly what I was planning; thanks for the warning!

hi this is gonna be my next beer just a couple of questions when making the saison did you pitch sake yeast or just a saison yeast ? did you add any hops to bring it in line with traditional sake ? and what was the fg before bottling ? thank in advance