Budget Summer India Pale Ale

Yakima 728
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Brew_4iT

Brew_4iT

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All-Grain - Budget Summer India Pale Ale

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Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: Wyeast Irish ale 1084 (prior slurry)
Batch Size (Gallons): 5
Original Gravity: 1.065
Final Gravity: 1.017
IBU: 41.8 (with centennial 60.1)
Boiling Time (Minutes): 90
Color: SRM 13, Copper to red
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 7 68-72 deg f
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 7 68-72 deg f (dry hop)
Tasting Notes: (haven't tried yet will post results)




%___lbs.____oz.___Ingredients
69% 8 0 Pale Malt, 2 Row, US
17% 2 0 Vienna Malt
9% 1 0 Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L
2% 0 4 Candi Sugar
2% 0 4 Biscuit Malt
1% 0 2 Black Patent Malt

Hops Schedule
Magnum 1 oz 60min pellet
Centennial* .5 oz 40min pellet
Centennial* .5 oz 15min pellet
Cascade 1 oz (dry hop) leaf

Spices/other additions
Orange zest .25 oz 5min boil
Coriander .25 oz 5min boil

Mash at 155, 165 before the addition of grains unless the temp of the grains was previously brought up to temperature (steep 40 minutes). Sparge 165 3 step. Boil 90 minutes, start 60 minute hop/spice schedule 30 minutes in. If doing stove top (like I did) and have problems with boil volume, I used two seperate stock pots 21 quart, and the other slightly less. Use just enough water in the pots to completely cover the grains and not spill over the top (about halfway mark on both pots). After sparging reduce boil volume by boiling an hour to an hour and a half, should be able to consolidate after in one pot to make it easier for hop/spice schedule. Use fresh orange peeled just the skin no white rhine, washed well (if concerned about infection boil for 10 min), may want to roast the coriander in a pan to help release flavor.

Yeast isn't common but retaining a prior slurry, help with costs, use a more traditional yeast for an IPA if stringent about beer style guidelines. According to beer calculus 40 IBU's is the minimum for an American IPA, the SRM is also within the guidlines. ABV should be around 6.5% depending on attenuation and other variables. I'm going to condition in mini kegs (reused coors home draft kegs) I'll update when the best outcome will be for conditioning (by my palate).

*Baseline for bittering with 40 IBU's by BJCP style guidelines for an IPA without the addition of Centennial, with centennial will be around 60 IBU's which is more recommended. Also, some more late additions of citrusy flavorful hops may be more desirable like amarillo last 5 min/flameout/ or even add with cascade dryhopped. If you want to substitute magnum for an even higher alpha hops for bittering, and for AIPA standards summit is great and American.

Price: $20 (depending on the place you get your grain, hops, and utilizing a prior yeast cake/slurry.)
 
Irish ale yeast, coriander, orange zest, black patent, candi sugar, and only 2 oz of hops aren't usually things that come to mind when I think IPA.

Still would be interesting to know how all of that tastes together.
 
It's an untypical beer I know that, but like I mentioned the SRM and IBU's are in the guidelines for this style beer and more so attaining this style without busting your wallet on hops. The moderate amount of candi sugar will help dry it out a little bit, and also boost the alcohol to give it a decent 6.5%. This is also with 73% attenuation, so will probably get even better conversion if all goes well. I've seen quite a few IPA recipe's with black patent, namely Yooper's that comes to mind.

The "Gravity/Hops Ratio" chart puts it as light green "slightly hoppy" but right on the edge of extra hoppy.
 
tesilential said:
I think you'll be closer to an APA than an IPA when it's all said and done.
Click to expand...

How does that statement make any sense if everything is within the guidlines of an IPA????

From Homebrewing Wiki:

14B. American IPA Vital Statistics
BJCP Style Guideline Definition (2004)
IBUs: 40-60+ SRM: 6-15 OG: 1.056-1.075 FG: 1.010-1.018 ABV: 5.5-7.5
 
Brew_4iT said:
How does that statement make any sense if everything is within the guidlines of an IPA????

From Homebrewing Wiki:

14B. American IPA Vital Statistics
BJCP Style Guideline Definition (2004)
IBUs: 40-60+ SRM: 6-15 OG: 1.056-1.075 FG: 1.010-1.018 ABV: 5.5-7.5
Click to expand...

Because there is a lot more to a style than the numbers. Remember all those words in the style guidelines? They are actually more important than the numbers. With only 1 oz. Of late hops this beer won't have nearly enough hop flavor and aroma to be an IPA.
 
You can brew a pretty hop heavy IPA for under $30 if you buy in bulk. My last IPA that I brewed had 7 oz of hops (1 oz Magnum, 3 oz Simcoe, 3 oz Amarillo) and an OG of 1.068. It cost me around $30 with everything considered, including salts and DME for my yeast starter (bottle culture of Pacman).

If you wanted to spend less, you could easily use cheaper aroma hops (Centennial and Chinook come to mind) and and less malt.
 
slowbie said:
Because there is a lot more to a style than the numbers. Remember all those words in the style guidelines? They are actually more important than the numbers. With only 1 oz. Of late hops this beer won't have nearly enough hop flavor and aroma to be an IPA.
Click to expand...

+1

the irish yeast should work pretty well tho. i had a variation of loose cannon with irish yeast that I liked better than the normal.
 
slowbie said:
Because there is a lot more to a style than the numbers. Remember all those words in the style guidelines? They are actually more important than the numbers. With only 1 oz. Of late hops this beer won't have nearly enough hop flavor and aroma to be an IPA.
Click to expand...

If there is more to style than the numbers how come you are only quoting quantitative values in my thread?

.5 an oz of cascade in a 5 gallon carboy should be fine to give it a decent flavor and aroma once all said and done. You ever drink a bohemian style pilsner? or other brew that crosses guidelines but still claims to be a pilsner or ale or what have you?

This is a summer style IPA I wanted to try and with magnum being the same cost of centennial (which I was going to go with originally) IBU's all said and done will be over 40, and with flameout cascade, dryhopped, orange peel and coriander. I don't see any dissatisfaction in the end result of aroma and flavor.

This is geared towards a budget brewer, doesn't buy in bulk during the summer time and wants something different and by definition, even if I were to cut and paste "all those words" would still remain as an IPA.
 
Brew_4iT said:
If there is more to style than the numbers how come you are only quoting quantitative values in my thread?

.5 an oz of cascade in a 5 gallon carboy should be fine to give it a decent flavor and aroma once all said and done. You ever drink a bohemian style pilsner? or other brew that crosses guidelines but still claims to be a pilsner or ale or what have you?

This is a summer style IPA I wanted to try and with magnum being the same cost of centennial (which I was going to go with originally) IBU's all said and done will be over 40, and with flameout cascade, dryhopped, orange peel and coriander. I don't see any dissatisfaction in the end result of aroma and flavor.

This is geared towards a budget brewer, doesn't buy in bulk during the summer time and wants something different and by definition, even if I were to cut and paste "all those words" would still remain as an IPA.
Click to expand...

Might be a tasty beer, but absolutely not an IPA. The flameout and dryhop additions are way too small and the orange peel and corriander are very out of place.

BTW - how does a Bohemian Pils cross style guidelines.... Boh Pils is a style...
 
Bohemian by definition, unless referring to inhabitants of the area means unconventional in appearance, behavior, etc.

I would assume the style of this beer comes from the very notion of being different from a traditional pilsner.... make sense?
 
Just for the sake of argument, this is a qualitative "opinionized unquantifiable words" from wiki

"Modern versions of English IPAs generally pale in comparison (pun intended) to their ancestors. The term "IPA" is loosely applied in commercial English beers today, and has been (incorrectly) used in beers below 4% ABV."

Hey atleast I'm not making a 3.5% abv beer and slapping an IPA label on it.
 
Brew_4iT said:
Bohemian by definition, unless referring to inhabitants of the area means unconventional in appearance, behavior, etc.

I would assume the style of this beer comes from the very notion of being different from a traditional pilsner.... make sense?
Click to expand...

Bohemian pilsners are named such because they originated in Bohemia. Bohemia is a region of the now Czech Republic. The style is actually the original Pilsner, seeing as it takes its name from Pilsen.
 
Brew_4iT said:
Hey atleast I'm not making a 3.5% abv beer and slapping an IPA label on it.
Click to expand...

if it had the hops to back it, I don't think anyone would argue its merit as an IPA. it'd just be a session IPA. this brew, however, just doesnt have the level of hops to make it an IPA. its a spiced pale ale.

btw, in the case of a boh pils, its referring to the region, not being unconventional
 
By who's standards now though lol

... And if someone says Homebrewing wiki, or BJCP style guidlines I'm gonna slap 3.5% abv labels on IPA's...

I understand where everyone is coming from, when I think of IPA's I think a really thick hopped beer. But my goal was to tone down an IPA for the summer, still within BJCP style guidelines, and price effective, accordingly.
 
Brew_4iT said:
Bohemian by definition, unless referring to inhabitants of the area means unconventional in appearance, behavior, etc.

I would assume the style of this beer comes from the very notion of being different from a traditional pilsner.... make sense?
Click to expand...

phenry said:
Bohemian pilsners are named such because they originated in Bohemia. Bohemia is a region of the now Czech Republic. The style is actually the original Pilsner, seeing as it takes its name from Pilsen.
Click to expand...

Yes, a Bohemian Pilsner IS a recognized beer style, style #2B, with certain characteristics that make it a BoPils.

Brew_4iT said:
By who's standards now though lol

... And if someone says Homebrewing wiki, or BJCP style guidlines I'm gonna slap 3.5% abv labels on IPA's...

I understand where everyone is coming from, when I think of IPA's I think a really thick hopped beer. But my goal was to tone down an IPA for the summer, still within BJCP style guidelines, and price effective, accordingly.
Click to expand...

Just like an American IPA (style #14B) has style guidelines. You can "think of a really thick hopped beer" but that isn't the style anyway. If you want to make an IPA, you really have to have the late hopping. You can make any beer in any way you want, and that's one of the great things about brewing. But it's not very nice to attack people who simply point out that there aren't enough late hops to make a "real" IPA.
 
L'sigh... you rock my face off sometimes, you know that Yoop? HAHA

But seriously, it's true. You need late hop additions (and plenty of them) in a proper IPA. You're making an ESB or something.
 
Brew_4iT said:
If there is more to style than the numbers how come you are only quoting quantitative values in my thread?
Click to expand...

I quoted both quantitative (1 oz of hops) and qualitative (added late in the boil) properties of your recipe. Either one is meaningless without the other.

But I don't understand why you got so defensive about it. There's nothing wrong with brewing a beer that doesn't neatly fit into a style. I do brew the 4% ABV 'IPA' that you described and I completely agree that it's not an IPA, but it's delicious and I don't care that it doesn't fit a style.
 
slowbie said:
I quoted both quantitative (1 oz of hops) and qualitative (added late in the boil) properties of your recipe. Either one is meaningless without the other.

But I don't understand why you got so defensive about it. There's nothing wrong with brewing a beer that doesn't neatly fit into a style. I do brew the 4% ABV 'IPA' that you described and I completely agree that it's not an IPA, but it's delicious and I don't care that it doesn't fit a style.
Click to expand...
10 Barrel in Bend, OR is doing a lower ABV IPA, and calling it an ISA (India-Style Session Ale).
 
Mongrel said:
10 Barrel in Bend, OR is doing a lower ABV IPA, and calling it an ISA (India-Style Session Ale).
Click to expand...

Drakes from NorCal made a beer called Alpha Sessions last year. 3.8%abv and 80ish Ibus. It was amazing. I called it a California lite beer.

That said, IPAs can be made for cheap if you use your ingredients wisely.

1.Use mostly base malt. It tends to be cheaper than specialty malts. Use just enough specialty malts to get the job done. No more.

2. Have a good high alpha bittering hop. I like summits for example. At 16-18%AA, you dont have to use much to get you the bitterness you need.

3. Account for 4oz of hops to divide between late boil and dry hop. That should only cost around $8.

4. Use dry yeast. US-05, s-04, or nottingham are all good for IPAs and half the price of liquid yeast. You also dont need any extract to make a starter with. Pitch and go.

5. Go a little lower in ABV and IBU. There are plenty of great IPAs on the lower end around 6% and 60-65IBUs.

Ill use Austin Homebrew as a baseline for pricing a simple recipe.

13lb 2-row @ $1.35/lb = $17.55
1oz Carafa III Debittered (just to give a little color, but not necessary) = $.85

1oz Summit 60min 18%AA = $1.99
2oz if any hops you want @ flameout = $3.98
2oz for dryhopping = $3.98

1pack US-05 = $3.49

OG - 1.064
FG - 1.012
ABV - 6.9%
IBU - 63

total cost - $31.84
$6.37/gal of beer
 
Alright, well went to a different brew shop than I usually go to because I was in the area (luckily will move closer to this area so will be my main place). I picked up all the ingredients... and an extra oz of centennial (for all the haters out there), a muslim bag, extra pound of dextrose for a grand total of... $20

1 oz Magnum 60min
.5 oz centennial 40min
.5 oz centennial 15min
1 oz cascade dryhopped leaf

OG - 1.065
FG - 1.017 (depending on yeast retained)
ABV - 6.5%*
IBU - 60.1

Total cost - $20 (- priming sugar and muslim bag less)

5 gallons of beer


***Just to note, I'm not going to banter about previous dialogue pertaining to what constitutes a "hoppy" beer (seems to me that even late additions of nonetheless "hops" would make a beer thicker and hoppy...) Although remaining within guidelines of referenced brewing material and being told... it is what it is not, no further sourced citations of any credibility besides attacking one area of my recipe while further being told that I'm rude for defending BJCP style guidelines and definitions of the like ... I'll just swallow it
 
don't really want to cross hairs... but "added late during a boil" wouldn't be qualitative. In statistics qualitative means data that cannot be categorized mathematically only by categories of opinionized value. Because the value of bittering can be mathematically figured by the AA and time... yada yada

I don't know I guess from my perspective without numerical value, a beer would mainly be only biased opinionized banter.
 
Brew_4iT said:
...Because the value of bittering can be mathematically figured by the AA and time...
Click to expand...

Which would be a good point, except I'm not referring to the value of bittering, but rather the flavor and aroma contributions, which cannot be mathematically expressed.
 
Brew_4iT said:
(seems to me that even late additions of nonetheless "hops" would make a beer thicker and hoppy...)
Click to expand...

In response to the bolded word: "....um... what?"

Are you under the impression that late-boil and dryhops add body to beer?
 
Excellent choice on using 1084! I have brewed several IPAs and a Black IPA (that won a BoS) using the 1084 strain. Fermented in the mid-60s, it works magic with the malt and strong American hop flavors.
 
slowbie said:
Which would be a good point, except I'm not referring to the value of bittering, but rather the flavor and aroma contributions, which cannot be mathematically expressed.
Click to expand...

Are you serious dude? Even flavor and aroma can be quantifiable. Think about it... If you can calculate time by the amount of bittering for early additions, and the amount of aroma and flavor loss you have more than enough values for an expression to numerically value aroma/taste this hasn't been done yet???

Reno_eNVy_446 said:
In response to the bolded word: "....um... what?"

Are you under the impression that late-boil and dryhops add body to beer?
Click to expand...

Remove the idea of bittering being the soul definition for "hoppy"

Derivative: hoppy
adj

Smelling or tasting of hops.


Unless late additions contribute no value (which you are all telling me has great value lol) then their has to be something present... right? Think about it. You may not be able to see the thickness, or what have you but, even late additions of hops leaves more elements into the finished beer. Hence... the beer must be thicker with something, or their would be nothing
 
Brew_4iT said:
Remove the idea of bittering being the soul definition for "hoppy"

Derivative: hoppy
adj

Smelling or tasting of hops.


Unless late additions contribute no value (which you are all telling me has great value lol) then their has to be something present... right? Think about it. You may not be able to see the thickness, or what have you but, even late additions of hops leaves more elements into the finished beer.
Click to expand...

Late additions contribute flavor and aroma compounds which add to hop flavor and aroma. Body is produced by unfermentables from grain, as well as other unfermentables you may want to add (i.e. lactose.)


Brew_4iT said:
Hence... the beer must be thicker with something, or their would be nothing
Click to expand...
So by the same logic, adding spices adds body or thickness because you're putting something in there. :rolleyes:

I think you're confusing flavor with body.

99.9999999% of the things we "taste" are actually smells. The only things we actually taste are sweet, sour, bitter, salty, umami and acid. Everything else "tastes" how the smell-compounds are interpreted by our olfactory system. This means these smelly compounds are volatile and must be of negligible mass compared to 5 gallons or even a pint, thus, no body is added. QED
 
Brew_4iT said:
Are you serious dude? Even flavor and aroma can be quantifiable. Think about it... If you can calculate time by the amount of bittering for early additions, and the amount of aroma and flavor loss you have more than enough values for an expression to numerically value aroma/taste this hasn't been done yet???
Click to expand...

yes, its generally quantified by the amount of late hops, hence why everyone is saying you didnt have enough. I guess you could try to quantify it further by including the %essential oils, but since their make-up hugely varies hop to hop and have different rates of volatility and absorption, the estimate would be even further from the inaccuracy of IBU calculations
 
I'm not arguing these points I whole heartedly agree. Nothing is absolute, but numbers helps with precision. I like the fact that in brewing you can never replicate an exact beer twice, especially when aging is involved...

And no I'm not talking about the initial body of a beer, I was loosley expressing earlier in the thread when I first grab a sip of an IPA the first initial response is a thickly hopped beer. whether right or wrong I just do...

I'm not claiming that I know all the answers, I still have a lot to learn I admit that.
 
Brew_4iT said:
Are you serious dude? Even flavor and aroma can be quantifiable. Think about it... If you can calculate time by the amount of bittering for early additions, and the amount of aroma and flavor loss you have more than enough values for an expression to numerically value aroma/taste this hasn't been done yet???
Click to expand...

If only it were that simple. Even the IBU calculations are very imperfect and don't singlehandedly give an accurate representation of how bitter. Even with the same IBU number, things like OG, FG, hop variety, and carbonation will affect perceived bitterness. You can try to quantify anything (and people do try on nearly everything), but how successful you are will be variable.

Brew_4iT said:
when I first grab a sip of an IPA the first initial response is a thickly hopped beer. whether right or wrong I just do...
Click to expand...

When you first take a sip of an IPA, you should be tasting a very hoppy beer. From all the BJCP guidelines:

Overall Impression: A decidedly hoppy and bitter, moderately strong American pale ale.
Click to expand...

However, an IPA shouldn't be thick. Sure, the hops add SOMETHING, but anything added by the hops completely negligible compared to sugars in solution.

Again, I don't understand why you're so hung up on this having to be an IPA. If you want to make an IPA, then make a hoppy beer. If you don't want to make a hoppy beer, don't make an IPA. It's that simple.

But if you're really so convinced that you're right, just brew it and enter it in a competition as an IPA and see how you do.
 
slowbie said:
If only it were that simple. Even the IBU calculations are very imperfect and don't singlehandedly give an accurate representation of how bitter. Even with the same IBU number, things like OG, FG, hop variety, and carbonation will affect perceived bitterness. You can try to quantify anything (and people do try on nearly everything), but how successful you are will be variable.



Brew_4iT said:
I'm not arguing these points I whole heartedly agree. Nothing is absolute, but numbers helps with precision. I like the fact that in brewing you can never replicate an exact beer twice, especially when aging is involved...

And no I'm not talking about the initial body of a beer, I was loosley expressing earlier in the thread when I first grab a sip of an IPA the first initial response is a thickly hopped beer. whether right or wrong I just do...

I'm not claiming that I know all the answers, I still have a lot to learn I admit that.
Click to expand...

(dead horse icon)
Click to expand...
 
horse.gif


There ya go ;)
 

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