Taking the plunge

I've been kicking around giving home brewing a try for a few years now. I've been reading up as best as I can, but it's hard when I really don't understand much of it. I finally signed up on the website, when I compiled a few questions.

1. I've read the suggested starter kits, but I don't know why they're suggested. It seems like many of them need other items. I'm not as worried about cost, within reason. Are there any kits that would give me everything I need to increase my chances of success?

2. howtobrew suggests fermentation of 65 to 70 degrees, if I understand it correctly. In the winter, my house is between 52 and 65 degrees, depending on time of day and if anyone is home. Is this a problem? If so, how do other people deal with this?

As long as my temperature isn't an issue that can't be fixed, and I can find a good starter kit, I think I'm ready to give it a shot. Any advice or links to kits is greatly appreciated!

It sounds like you're all set man. The things that you're worrying about, all have simple solutions that you can learn here.

As far as being successful, if you know how to wash dishes and follow a recipe, you can be a good homebrewer. Go for it man

Martlet said:

I've been kicking around giving home brewing a try for a few years now. I've been reading up as best as I can, but it's hard when I really don't understand much of it. I finally signed up on the website, when I compiled a few questions.

1. I've read the suggested starter kits, but I don't know why they're suggested. It seems like many of them need other items. I'm not as worried about cost, within reason. Are there any kits that would give me everything I need to increase my chances of success?

2. howtobrew suggests fermentation of 65 to 70 degrees, if I understand it correctly. In the winter, my house is between 52 and 65 degrees, depending on time of day and if anyone is home. Is this a problem? If so, how do other people deal with this?

As long as my temperature isn't an issue that can't be fixed, and I can find a good starter kit, I think I'm ready to give it a shot. Any advice or links to kits is greatly appreciated!

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Midwest sells a kit that includes everthing you would need to brew your 1st batch (a normal starter kit, a recipe kit, bottles, and a brewpot). I would say you are better off just getting the basic equipment kit because you can get the brew kettle cheaper at Walmart and the bottles you can get from drinking.

I have fermented in the low-60s without a problem. It can be a little slower to finish, but just leave it in the primary for 4-5 weeks and you will be fine. Low temperatures produce clean flavored beer which I like.

I think I have everything I need. Doing research, I found a store not to far from me. I went there today and picked up this starter kit. It seemed to have the things you guys were suggesting to me. It's a little more, but it's also from a local shop who walked me through the process. I'll try to hop in this weekend and give it a go.

They said a few things I hadn't seen before in my reading, or didn't recognize it when I did. First, they said to strain it when transferring from the kettle to the bucket. The directions also seem to only have the mixing and boiling taking place with a few gallons of water, and the rest is added after.

Then, I was told to transfer from the bucket to the carboy after a few days to finish fermentation, again leaving the stuff on the bottom. Then before bottling transfer back to the bucket, again leaving the bottom. I would think this would minimize the sediment in the bottles. Seems like a lot of racking, though. There's no spigot on the bucket, but they included the bottle filler. They said that's better. I guess we'll see.

To solve my cold issues I picked up a bottle warming band. They said I should put the carboy back in the bucket while it's fermenting, then fill the bucket with water and put the band around it to maintain the temperature.

Anything I've missed, or you disagree with?

Thanks again, folks.

Martlet said:

2. howtobrew suggests fermentation of 65 to 70 degrees, if I understand it correctly. In the winter, my house is between 52 and 65 degrees, depending on time of day and if anyone is home. Is this a problem? If so, how do other people deal with this?

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My house is around the same temperature this time of year. I used a cheap WalMart heating pad for one batch, although it got the fermenter too warm (76F) at one point. The others have been without the pad, and have been between 62 and 70F. All fermented just fine; started in 12-24 hours, active for 2-3 days then slowing down over the course of about a week.

You're going to see all sorts of differing opinions of various procedures. I would say this:

1. Boil size: typically bigger is better, but many kitchen stoves can't boil 5+ gallons, and then you need to chill it before you pour it into your fermenter. With a smaller boil, you use chilled water to "top-off" whcih helps this process.

2. Straining the wort between boil and fermenting pail is fine, just don't do it with hot wort. Aeration is actually good at this point.

3. Many people would skip the secondary transfer to a carboy, and even those who would do one wouldn't do it after only a few days. Give it a couple weeks.

4. It's usually either three transfers (kettle to fermenter, fermenter to bottling bucket, bucket to bottles) or four if you do a secondary. The first of these (from kettle) is very different in that you actually want aeration; for the others, you don't.

I agree. My house in the daytime is about 64 this time of year. As long as it doesnt get in the 50s you wont have a problem. Just may take a little longer.

nordoe said:

I agree. My house in the daytime is about 64 this time of year. As long as it doesnt get in the 50s you wont have a problem. Just may take a little longer.

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That's why I got it. My house ranges from 52 to 65 degrees throughout the week.

Martlet said:

That's why I got it. My house ranges from 52 to 65 degrees throughout the week.

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If the temp fluctuates a little throughout the day it shouldn't be too bad. It can take quite a while for the volume of wort/beer to change temperature too much. The heat band should be fine.

I use fermometers on my fermentors, they do a decent job of showing what temp the liquid is at, not perfect but decent!

The kit you have is good, check out Palmers "How to Brew" online for another reference(just a suggestion), keep notes on temps and times and just have a good time and enjoy!

BTW, this is a great site for information so use it liberally!!

Welcome to the wonderful obsession of homebrewing!

Lots of great help so far, thanks!

I have everything laid out and I'm ready to start.

Quick question: As I read the directions again, I notice where it says to add "cold water". It says put 3 gallons in my ferment bucket while my wort is boiling, then to add more after the wort to bring the total to 5.25 gallons. Does this water need to be boiled first, or is it ok right out of the tap?

unless you've got some kind of cooties in your tap water, I'd say you're probably ok without the boiling. Others that are far more serious about sanitation than I am (and who probably brew consistently better beer than I) may suggest boiling all the water first.

I agree. I just use tap water. The better the water, the better the beer I would think. It cant hurt but will take a while to cool down a boiling 3 gallons of water unless you have a chiller.

Thanks. It also calls to add crystals that appear to be water hardener. I don't see those mentioned in any books. Could it be specific to the recipe?

Ingredients:
2 - 3.3 lb cans of Malt Extract
1 lb Crystal Malt (grain, crushed)
1 1/2 oz hop pellets
1 pkg water salts

The advice you got from your LHBS about racking your beer to secondary after a few days tells me that you should not trust their advice. There are good stores and bad stores. The bad ones think that their customers want beer really quick, and tell you what they think you want to hear.

I'm not saying don't buy from them, just don't listen to them.

Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:

The advice you got from your LHBS about racking your beer to secondary after a few days tells me that you should not trust their advice. There are good stores and bad stores. The bad ones think that their customers want beer really quick, and tell you what they think you want to hear.

I'm not saying don't buy from them, just don't listen to them.

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Ahhh. Her reasoning was that it would be clearer. Do you think it would be better to wait until half gravity, like the book says, then transfer to the carboy?

Martlet said:

Ahhh. Her reasoning was that it would be clearer. Do you think it would be better to wait until half gravity, like the book says, then transfer to the carboy?

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A good many people here don't even use a secondary. If you rack it too soon you could lose a lot of valuable yeast and stall fermentaion. It is normal to leave it two weeks in primary, then a week in secondary. For a beginner, that would be the safest route IMO until you have a little more experience.

Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:

A good many people here don't even use a secondary. If you rack it too soon you could lose a lot of valuable yeast and stall fermentaion. It is normal to leave it two weeks in primary, then a week in secondary. For a beginner, that would be the safest route IMO until you have a little more experience.

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Safer is better, in this case. Two weeks it is. Thanks. I read the directions again, and they seem to think I'll be at the final gravity in 2 weeks with a 2 stage, 10 days with a 1 stage.

Would that 2 week first stage still apply if my room temp stays about 57 degrees, or should I start looking for ways to bring that up?

Martlet said:

Safer is better, in this case. Two weeks it is. Thanks. I read the directions again, and they seem to think I'll be at the final gravity in 2 weeks with a 2 stage, 10 days with a 1 stage.

Would that 2 week first stage still apply if my room temp stays about 57 degrees, or should I start looking for ways to bring that up?

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Lagers are OK to ferment at that temp but any ales should be 62°F up to the mid 70's. Kolsch yeasts do good at low 60's. Depending on the style of your beer. Keep the beer in primary(first stage) at least 2 weeks then bottle. Keep in the bottle about 3 weeks at low 70's to upper 60's. Should be fine!

The only way to be sure of the gravity is to measure it. Most ales should be done after two weeks in primary though! You just can't beat actual readings compared to what the directions "suggest"! IMHO

Good Luck!

KevinW said:

Lagers are OK to ferment at that temp but any ales should be 62°F up to the mid 70's. Kolsch yeasts do good at low 60's. Depending on the style of your beer. Keep the beer in primary(first stage) at least 2 weeks then bottle. Keep in the bottle about 3 weeks at low 70's to upper 60's. Should be fine!

The only way to be sure of the gravity is to measure it. Most ales should be done after two weeks in primary though! You just can't beat actual readings compared to what the directions "suggest"! IMHO

Good Luck!

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Thanks! I'm not getting those temps. I have a bucket band I could put on, but it says to only put it on for 8 days max. I'll have to buy a portable heater for one room or something.

A lot of good advice here. As for your temperature issue, I can suggest a couple of options. These are by no means the best options in the world but could help you out.

Once your bring your temp down to pitch your yeast in, mid to low 70's, wrap that sucker in a blanket. It will keep the heat in there hopefully long enough for the yeast to start. Once the yeast start they naturally make the temp rise in the fermenter a couple of degrees, so you should be able to hold some heat for a bit. Once they start dropping out your temp will start to decrease over time.

Another option...

Are you absolutely sure there are no spots in your house that are a little warmer? Up off the floor and near a heat register or something? If you have any kind of thermometer I would check a few places that may be a little warmer. Look for places that have no outside walls, heat registers, off the floor and out of the way.

Double check that, you may find a decent spot. Just try to make sure the temp doesn't swing to drastically.

Don't know exactly what you got in your kit, but a couple of things I find absolutely necessary:

1. a "wine thief" to draw a sample for the hydrometer;
2. a dial thermometer that attaches to the side of my brew kettle to keep the temp at 155° when I'm steeping grains;
3. a blowoff tube for the first few days of fermentation.

In my second brew, I broke all the rules, and cooled my finished wort with ice purchased at the grocery store. The water used by the ice company is treated by some process...osmosis/boiling/chemicals???...to keep it free of bacteria and other "nasties." I slowly dumped in a 7 pound bag of it. I have, however, purchased some of the parts for an immersion chiller.

glenn514

Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:

A good many people here don't even use a secondary. If you rack it too soon you could lose a lot of valuable yeast and stall fermentaion. It is normal to leave it two weeks in primary, then a week in secondary. For a beginner, that would be the safest route IMO until you have a little more experience.

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If you're just beginning, just don't do a secondary. The more you fiddle with your beer the more chance there is of it getting infected, or oxidated. Just leave it in the primary for two weeks.

You really only need a secondary if you're lagering, meaning leaving the beer on the yeast for 3-6 months. Some use it for secondary additions, like fruit, oak, dry hopping (though I do that in the primary too), or true secondary fermentation like when you add bacteria.

In short, if you don't have a reason to do a secondary, don't do a secondary.

Fwiw, your house is the perfect temp to do either a Kolsch (cold for an ale yeast) or a Cal Common (warm for a lager). Brew one of these, or another beer using these yeasts. Another style might work, but why not play the hand you're dealt?

Also, did your kit come with canned extract, or was that just in the pic? I've never had good beer from canned extract. And if it's pre-hopped canned extract (blech), I'd just dump it and get a real recipe kit with fresh malt extract and fresh hops from Northern Brewer or Austin Homebrew.

Glen brings up a good point.

There are a couple of things that may or may not have come with your kit and if your looking to expand and make things easier in the future I'd totally get what he's suggesting.

I've also got a couple of suggestions. There are a couple of brewing networks out there that I've found very helpful and a couple of products I won't brew without now.

Check them out if you like.

Beginner Homebrewer Must Haves

Thanks guys! That's some great information. It's in the warmest place I could find, which is about 60 degrees. I put a bucket band on it that supposedly takes it up to 70. I'll leave that on for 8 days, then take it off for the end. I did so many things wrong on this batch I don't have high hopes, but we'll see what happens.

I found a bunch of things I need for the next batch, and my thermometer broke on this one so I'll pick up another. Overall, it was a great learning experience and I'm looking forward to improving next time.

Yes, it was canned extract but not pre-hopped. It had some grains that I had to steep, too. I'm not sure what everything in the process is for, though. Now that I've been through that part, I'll read everything again and hopefully learn more.

Thanks for all the info. I guess the least I could do it pick up a membership, now.

Martlet said:

Yes, it was canned extract but not pre-hopped. It had some grains that I had to steep, too. I'm not sure what everything in the process is for, though.

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The grains are what they call "crystal" of "caramel" malts. They add flavor and color and some fermentables, but a lot of carbohydrates in them are not fermentable so they'll also add some thickness and mouthfeel (and a bit of sweetness) to your beer.

I hope I didn't discourage you about the canned extract. One of the ways to improve your beer is to source the best possible ingredients. It's just one more step in the process of making great beer.

Someone above mentioned brewing networks. I think one of the main things that helped me learn what the heck I was doing was the podcasts from TheBrewingNetwork.com. I would suggest listening to every episode of The Jamil Show (which covers how to make every single style of beer) and BrewStrong, which covers the technical side of brewing.

And definitely keep reviewing howtobrew.com.

And keep coming back here. We'll help as much as we can.

Hmmm. I strained out as much of the sludge as I could when I transferred from the kettle to the bucket. Hopefully, that will get rid of some things. The lady at the store likened this to Sam Adams. I only had a few choices with the kit, though.

I'll download those podcasts and give them a listen.

If I don't rack to a secondary, as most have suggested, should I rack to my carboy for bottling? I don't have another bucket, and this bucket doesn't have a spigot, anyway.

Martlet said:

If I don't rack to a secondary, as most have suggested, should I rack to my carboy for bottling? I don't have another bucket, and this bucket doesn't have a spigot, anyway.

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Yeah, I think that'll be fine. The point is mainly to get the priming syrup mixed in well (without sloshing the beer and thus oxidizing it). How are you going to bottle without a bucket/spigot? That's the only way I've done it, so it's all I know...

wendelgee2 said:

Yeah, I think that'll be fine. The point is mainly to get the priming syrup mixed in well (without sloshing the beer and thus oxidizing it). How are you going to bottle without a bucket/spigot? That's the only way I've done it, so it's all I know...

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I have a spring loaded bottling tube. I guess it goes on the siphon. I could always go buy a bucket and spigot. It seems a shame to have a glass carboy and not use it for something.

Martlet said:

I have a spring loaded bottling tube. I guess it goes on the siphon. I could always go buy a bucket and spigot. It seems a shame to have a glass carboy and not use it for something.

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Why not ferment in the carboy and buy a spigot to add to the bucket? Most are installed with a 1" paddle bit and it only takes a minute to do.

A couple of thoughts...

I leave my beer in the primary for 2 weeks and then rack to a carboy for at least another week (more if I am too lazy to bottle). I do this, because at the end of two weeks I have a free primary to put on more beer. Seems like a good reason to me - I was lucky in that I got my Dad's old equipment and one of my bosses' at work's old stuff (on perma loan, since it is now out of his garage, but he knows where it is). I really didn't want to use their buckets, since I can't be sure how kind they were to the plastic, but the carboys are fine. I have their buckets as permanent bottle cleaning stations.

I am lucky temp wise, in that the morons who owned my house before me took out the wood/ oil furnace and put in electric heat. We put back in a furnace and have a programmable therm, which we use to keep the temp in good pattern for when we are home/ away. I then keep the heat on in my "brew room" and just keep an eye on the temp range. So far has worked well.

You may want to keep in mind that lower temps are going to affect how long your beer takes to carb as well, not just how long it takes to ferment. One more reason to get the next batch on sooner rather than later

Welcome and Enjoy!

Martlet said:

I did so many things wrong on this batch I don't have high hopes, but we'll see what happens.

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I don't think you did anything wrong, in fact I think you did the most correct thing any new brewer could do, check out this forum!!

If we all knew everything there was to brewing beer we would not need this forum which means a lot of people around the world would have nothing to do while their beer was fermenting!

Keep it up and keep brewing!!

KevinW said:

I don't think you did anything wrong, in fact I think you did the most correct thing any new brewer could do, check out this forum!!

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You only say that because you didn't see me with my arm up to my elbow in my bucket fishing out the o-ring I dropped while inserting my fermentation lock.

6 hours later and it's bubbling happily along. I guess that bucket band helped.

I figure I'll post here for now so if anyone cares about the history, they can see my mistakes.

Put it in the bucket yesterday, and withing hours was getting burps every 3-4 seconds. This morning, it was still cranking. I looked now, and it's giving a burp or 2 every minute. It's been just over 24 hours since I closed it up. Is that normal?

Airlock activity is not an accurate picture of fermentation... I wouldn't worry about how much the airlock is bubbling, I use it as a random gauge so that I don't open everything up to take gravity readings all the time.

If the temp in your room is varying a lot, you may want to take a SG reading in a few days and then a few days later just to ensure that your fermentation is complete before bottling... other than that I wouldn't worry about it too much.

lady_brewer said:

Airlock activity is not an accurate picture of fermentation... I wouldn't worry about how much the airlock is bubbling, I use it as a random gauge so that I don't open everything up to take gravity readings all the time.

If the temp in your room is varying a lot, you may want to take a SG reading in a few days and then a few days later just to ensure that your fermentation is complete before bottling... other than that I wouldn't worry about it too much.

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I haven't opened it at all yet. I wouldn't think that it's done fermenting, though. It's only been 27 hours since I put it in there. I would assume it has a few weeks to go.

Martlet said:

Thanks. It also calls to add crystals that appear to be water hardener. I don't see those mentioned in any books. Could it be specific to the recipe?

Ingredients:
2 - 3.3 lb cans of Malt Extract
1 lb Crystal Malt (grain, crushed)
1 1/2 oz hop pellets
1 pkg water salts

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If you bought your stuff from the shop in Woburn then you are okay. The old lady knows her stuff and the staff in general is very helpful. Avoid some of the other shops around Mass. like the plague. There is one fellow on 495 South that knows his stuff real well. But, you should be good to go using the store in Woburn.

StAnthonyB said:

If you bought your stuff from the shop in Woburn then you are okay. The old lady knows her stuff and the staff in general is very helpful. Avoid some of the other shops around Mass. like the plague. There is one fellow on 495 South that knows his stuff real well. But, you should be good to go using the store in Woburn.

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Thanks! That's the one I went to.

Went back to the store to purchase a few more things that I'd broken or thought would make life easier. Talked to the folks about the recipe, and they said I can do what I'd like, but they HIGHLY SUGGEST I rack to secondary at half gravity. So in the face of conflicting advice, I took a reading when I got home. It was just past half gravity, so I sanitized with Star San (hope I did it correctly) and racked to secondary. When I opened the bucket, it smelled like my Fraternity house the morning after a keg party. Not particularly strong, but it had a hint of that "warm old beer" smell. Normal?

I also picked up another extract kit there. It seemed a little pricey compared to other kits I've seen online. It could just be because it was a better kit. I'm not sure. Where do you guys buy your kits? Locally, or order them online? Any suggestions?