BlackBerry Honey

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tonyandkory

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Hello all,
I just bought 12 pounds of Blackberry Honey and am kind of undecided what to do with it.

I was thinking of maybe just a straight mead but that depends on the flavor of the honey.

If I add fruit,in your opinion, what should I use? how much?
Should I add half the fruit in primary and half in secondary?

how can I add some body to this mead? my last one came out thin.(raspberry-vanilla)

and last about how many gallons can I get out of 12 pounds of honey?
can I do 6 with the help of inverted sugar, or should I just see where it gets me SG wise with just the 12 pounds?
 
I would do no more than 5 gallons, and that would produce a pretty light-bodied result, IMO. You might be better off doing 4 gallons. Don't add sugar; that's lame.
 
Try not to stretch it so far, bring it down to a 4 gallon or even 3.5 gallon batch. that alone will make more mouth feel but more of a medium sweet mead.

Make a batch of traditional first, just the honey, water, nutrients and yeast, let that finish in primary then rack onto 3-4 pounds of blackberries in the secondary, that will give a stronger blackberry flavor and cool dark red/purple color and also help with the body.

You can then try aging it for a short time on oak chips that will give you some tannins that will help balance the sweet fruity characters and make the whole thing pop as well as add some hints of vanilla like and other balancing flavors. again also helping improve how it fills your pallet. If you don't want to go on oak chips you can pick up some tannin powder at the LHBS, similar effect without the added hints of extra flavor.

If you really really want to do 6 gallons, get more honey, try to get another 6 pounds of the blackberry honey or some generic raw wildflower or clover honey, something that is subtle in the varietal flavors so you can keep the blackberry in the original honey up front.
 
.....rack onto 3-4 pounds of blackberries in the secondary, that will give a stronger blackberry flavor

If you really really want to do 6 gallons, get more honey, try to get another 6 pounds of the blackberry honey or some generic raw wildflower or clover honey, something that is subtle in the varietal flavors so you can keep the blackberry in the original honey up front.

Adding blackberries might be a good idea, but I would not expect blackberry honey to taste like blackberries. Varietal honeys do come predominantly from the flowers of a specific plant, but you can't expect the flowers to taste like the fruit.
 
Adding blackberries might be a good idea, but I would not expect blackberry honey to taste like blackberries. Varietal honeys do come predominantly from the flowers of a specific plant, but you can't expect the flowers to taste like the fruit.

That being said, adding any fruit other than blackberry, in my opinion, would remove any chance of distinguishing the honey flavor from the fruit - taking into consideration the OP's first thought was to do a show mead. A light amount of fresh blackberry in the secondary with respect to the batch size would be nice. Just enough to help what would naturally be (at most) a subtle hint of blackberry to start with.

Edit: Didn't notice TheBrewingMedic pretty much said the same thing.
 
Adding blackberries might be a good idea, but I would not expect blackberry honey to taste like blackberries. Varietal honeys do come predominantly from the flowers of a specific plant,
but you can't expect the flowers to taste like the fruit
.

sorta right, the flower doesn't taste like the fruit but the nectar contains same and similar volatile compounds as the fruit.

Orange blossom doesn't have orange and citrus flavors?

Have you had a single sources varietal from a fruit producing plant?

The flavors of the fruit does come through in the honey. When it's strictly a flowering plant it is more the aroma that is predominant.

Perhaps you are only a fan of clover honey, which is one of the only "varietals" than can have a small percentage of it's namesake as the nectar source and still be called a clover honey. Or maybe it's wildflower you prefer which could be nectar from any flower within the bees range.
 
sorta right, the flower doesn't taste like the fruit but the nectar contains same and similar volatile compounds as the fruit.

Orange blossom doesn't have orange and citrus flavors?

Have you had a single sources varietal from a fruit producing plant?

The flavors of the fruit does come through in the honey. When it's strictly a flowering plant it is more the aroma that is predominant.

Perhaps you are only a fan of clover honey, which is one of the only "varietals" than can have a small percentage of it's namesake as the nectar source and still be called a clover honey. Or maybe it's wildflower you prefer which could be nectar from any flower within the bees range.

You talk like you have years of experience with honey and making mead. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you make your first mead about three months ago? Have you become a honey expert in three months?

FYI - I am not a fan of clover honey. I haven't kept count, but I've probably made mead with at least 20 varietals. Orange Blossom and meadowfoam are my favorites.

Orange Blossom does have a citrusy taste to it, but I don't find most varietals to represent their fruits flavor very well. I've made standard meads using blueberry, apple, raspberry, and blackberry honey. I would be amazed if anyone tried them and said "This one tastes like apples and that one tastes like raspberries".
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you make your first mead about three months ago? Have you become a honey expert in three months?.

My first post here was about three months ago, after months of reading posts as a visitor. My first mead was prior to that first post and as far as my experience with honey it goes well beyond that.

I wasn't always a medic, I have years of experience using honeys in commercial bakeries and restaurants where knowing how the flavor and aroma profiles work came in handy. I've sampled different varietals many times. have talked to bee keepers about honey, won't say I'm an expert there either as it hasn't yet become something I'd be interested in doing myself, but can see it happening in the future.

I've had lengthy conversations with very experienced meadmakers, done considerable research on my own including reading much of the conflicting information in the many books available about mead making.

With a health science background in high school and college, I may not know a lot of the nuances of the chemistry but enough that I at least understand what I have been taught about it as well as the many studies on honeys composition that I have read, not only on honey itself but also fermentation, so I will better understand the reactions that occur so I can always strive to make a better bottle of mead.

Am I an expert? not even close, barely a novice in my opinion as there is so much to learn about honey and therefore mead that there is hardly anyone that could call themselves an absolute expert on the matter. Much about honey has yet to be discovered which is ironic with it's incredible documented history.
 
I'd imagine you could make a pretty decent Hypocras (Wine+Honey) with the blackberry honey.

There's also the herbal route: Try making it with some black tea, or star anise... anything that can add to the complexity :D

Maybe not adding berries, but adding some other elements that mix/pair very well with the blackberryness.
...and since apparently credentials are required to give suggestions, I'm but a lowly novice, I've only brewed 5 times, so my advice isn't from experience ;) take it with a grain of salt
 
By all means keep on with the info. The bashing was a little uncalled for but sometimes heated conversations are where a lot of info and opinion comes out, so please if there is anything else you all can impart it would be good. And remember opinions are exactly that Opinions.

I know in wine making you can add bananas to add body without adding banana flavor.does the same hold true with mead?
 
By all means keep on with the info. The bashing was a little uncalled for but sometimes heated conversations are where a lot of info and opinion comes out, so please if there is anything else you all can impart it would be good. And remember opinions are exactly that Opinions.

I know in wine making you can add bananas to add body without adding banana flavor.does the same hold true with mead?

As long as you maintain it underneath the threshold you can use fruits to alter the mouthfeel/body (I'm currently planning on using about 8 lbs of peaches in a 5 gallon brew of Brochet once I hit the secondary, its also a nice way of adding to the longevity of the brew and altering the PH)
 
tonyandkory said:
By all means keep on with the info. The bashing was a little uncalled for but sometimes heated conversations are where a lot of info and opinion comes out, so please if there is anything else you all can impart it would be good. And remember opinions are exactly that Opinions.

I know in wine making you can add bananas to add body without adding banana flavor.does the same hold true with mead?

You can indeed do that. I have not done it before, but I know it is easy to add too much and the banana flavor will dominate everything else. Do a little research before adding it to see how much you will need for your size batch to achieve a good balance.
 
I read something along the way in the past couple days that some people boil their honey.
Something about scum.
I am assuming something floats to the top and foams? what is it? is it bad? is it necessary or is it just a preference?
I did not do this on my first batch of mead and it turned out okay even though I can't drink it yet due to it being too high in alcohol.

I am probably going to do this

12 pounds/1gallon black berry honey
5 pounds sugar
1 tsp yeast nutrient
1 tsp pectic enzyme
1.5 tsp acid blend
red star Cote des Blancs or red star Montrachet (both have low ABV tolerances of about 13%)
this should bring the SG to 1.110
5 gallons water

Ferment to 1.020 rack to second primary bucket on to 3 pounds blackberries
Let the ferment finish
Then off to carboy for clearing and aging.

I am thinking that this will make an off dry mead with a hint of blackberries without overpowering the honey.



Thank you for all your input so far BTW!
 
the "scum" is left over particulate from harvesting the honey.., wax, bee parts, etc. as well as proteins and such that break due to the heat, it used to be a more common practice but since the equipment and methods of gathering honey in modern times have improved greatly it's really not necessary. It's definitely not needed to sanitize or sterilize the honey as it's naturally antimicrobial all on its own.

What's the 5 pounds of sugar for? just another fermentable?

are you adding water to bring it up to 5 gallons or adding 5 to get you to 6 gallons?

was just inputting the numbers in the gotmead calculator, 5 gal total volume it estimated an OG of 1.131 and 6 gallons at 1.108 (pretty close to your est.)

Cote de blancs and montrchet may both finish out before you get to 1.02 their lower alcohol tolerance make them good to finish a mid to higher gravity sweet or a low (1.07-1.08 OG) medium sweet.
 
ya I am on the visitors side dugout on the SO2/sorbate playing field, not adding any additional SO2/sorbate to any of our wines unless I have to back sweeten. (usually only with kits that have f-packs in wine)

so what I am shooting for is for the yeast to putter out 1.110 should get me close to 13.5%-14% with a little sweet left over. but maybe my calculations are off.

the extra sugar is because I don't have any more honey... think maybe I could/should use a weak flavored honey with it instead?
I didn't figure the addition of sugar would matter to the end product and its easier than trying to get another 7.5 pounds of honey.
 
Seems a shame to take a nice honey to then add plain sugar too it, if you dont have enough honey I would just make a smaller batch...
 
Not sure if it'll effect the overall flavor in the end, may make the ferment a little slower as table sugar is a disacharide (sucrose) and the sugars in honey are prediminantly monosacharides (fructose, glucose...) which the yeast can devour and break down more easily. Which is why a mead can ferment quicker than some homebrewed wines that rely heavily on table sugar for a fermentable.
 
I don't own a five gallon carboy.

Inverting the sugar solves the sugar problem.

I would need 7.5 lb honey to replace that 5 lb of sugar do you think I could add that later? Say after a week?

I want the ferment done before adding the fruit.
 
you can always add honey in stages, as if you were making a huge sack mead and needed to hold back honey so the OG wasn't too high for the yeast to get started.

Good call on waiting on the fruit
 
I have never done this before ...

The SG was 1.070 at the start.
about where do you suppose I should add the additional honey?
 
Fermented down to .998 and added another 7 pounds of blackberry honey and six pounds of blackberries.

re fermentation has started!

I think that this gave me a 1.120 SG.

I didn't account for the aditional volume of honey and black berries so I actually had to rack off a gallon into a carboy so I had fermentation space.


Couple questions.
1. what is a good FG for an off-dry mead like this?
2. do you think the yeast I used Red Star - Cote des Blancs Low alcohol yeast will ferment all the way out?
3. I have limited room and few carboys... I bottle wine about a month after its stable and done fermenting. I am assuming that I can bottle age the mead also..../>?
 
I made 5 gal of a really nice carbonated hydromel with:
-Initial Must, 6gal
-6# blackberry honey from Flying Bee Ranch,
-9# of frozen blackberries (in nylon bag, steeped in 2 gal initially boiling spring water for 2 days with pectic enzyme added after the first 24hrs); squeezed and strained and only used the juice water to avoid seed tannins)
-Spring water to 1049
-D254 yeast @ 63°F
-DAP and Fermaid K (I forget the amount; D254 has medium N2 requirement)
-Stabilized and backsweetened with more blackberry honey to 1010
-Force carbed to 3 volumes

Won 3rd in semisweet berry mel at Mazer Cup 2012 at 6 weeks old
 
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