Howto: Capture Wild Yeast

Schlenkerla said:

I'd try your yeast in a small batch. Try something that is 4-6% abv and hopped about 16 IBUs or less. Bittering only like 60 min.

I did mine in a wheat at 15 IBUs.

The reason I say that is you can isolate aroma and flavor created by the yeast.

Use it in the primary by itself.

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thanks, i was thinking of trying it in a bavarian hefe. would that fit the bill? or a wit maybe?

Danek said:

This thread is awesome. I'm really pleased that the wild beer looks like it's turning out so well. I hope you don't mind a really *****y and irrelevant comment though - "ressort" means spring as in a coil of metal - "flowers of Spring" would be "Fleurs du Printemps" (though only a real pedant would give a crap anyway ). Regardless of name, it's a really inspiring brew. Thanks for taking the time to share techniques.

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Thanks - I was curious about the word ressort. The web-translator gave me several to select from. Ressort sounded better. I was looking at my Farmhouse ale book last night and saw something like "Fantome Printemps" and was thinking my guess was wrong. Thanks for the confirmation.

I can't wait until I get this bottled carbonated.

killsurfcity said:

thanks, i was thinking of trying it in a bavarian hefe. would that fit the bill? or a wit maybe?

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Yes - I think either one would be great. You might have an ale or lager yeast, possibly something else, but at least this way you will know what the yeast character brings to the beer.

Both wheat styles are balanced beers and seem to be a good choice IMHO.

thanks! i think i will try the wit. i will report my findings here.

Enjoyable thread. I have been thinking of doing a wild yeast for some time. The possibility of doing wild yeast brews is what got me started making beer. I admit, I am only on my second batch [now in the primary fermenter and going crazy]. It is good to see other peoples experiments.

I have been thinking about alternative wild yeast sources. A few people mentioned fruit skins and flowers. Both are good ideas. When I was young my family brewed wine from the grape skin yeasts. However, I have no recollection of how that actually turned out.

Has anyone here actually tried capturing yeast for beer from fruit skins or flowers or something else? I was thinking of going what may be the obvious route and trying to capture wild yeast from fresh grains or fresh hops. I think the character that could be had from either would be interesting. What are other peoples thoughts on doing this? Any idea if fresh hops would even have a wild yeast strain on them?

Keep up the grand experiment Schlenkerla & everyone else.

- M

I'd try fruit grown organicanically in your area. Fungicides on the skin would kill the yeast. I'd try just letting it sit in a closed, sterilized jar of wort and seeing what happens.

I wonder if you captured wild yeast, pitched it in wort in a conical and then harvested the yeast that fell out after the first few days if you could select for a more flocculent yeast.

ChshreCat said:

I wonder if you captured wild yeast, pitched it in wort in a conical and then harvested the yeast that fell out after the first few days if you could select for a more flocculent yeast.

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I think you could. I pulled this from the primary.

Its alot of fricken yeast. ~1/2 gallon. This sucker had 1-1.25" yeast cake in a 5 gal primary. I did this Sunday and its starting to settle out.

Just tasted mine. Very estery, just like a good abbey beer or something. Tasted kind of like it smelled but much more subdued. Slight tang but nothing over the top. I have no idea whether the tartness will continue developing or not. Slight brett funk. This beer will be much better well carbed and chilled slightly. Oh, and aged another few months too! It's very clear, although you can see a few chunks I knocked loose while taking the sample. I think I'll go ahead and bottle tonight and let them start bottle conditioning. I'll probably include one in each of my 999 shipments.

KingBrianI said:

Just tasted mine. Very estery, just like a good abbey beer or something. Tasted kind of like it smelled but much more subdued. Slight tang but nothing over the top. I have no idea whether the tartness will continue developing or not. Slight brett funk. This beer will be much better well carbed and chilled slightly. Oh, and aged another few months too! It's very clear, although you can see a few chunks I knocked loose while taking the sample. I think I'll go ahead and bottle tonight and let them start bottle conditioning. I'll probably include one in each of my 999 shipments.

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That Really Looks Awesome. What did you use for a recipe?

Did I miss that post?

Schlenkerla said:

That Really Looks Awesome. What did you use for a recipe?

Did I miss that post?

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yeah, that post was buried way back in there. Just a quick one gallon extract batch made with some DME I had for starters.

KingBrianI said:

This glass, still sitting in my kitchen, has continued to develop very belgian-y aromas without molding over or turning funky, so tonight I brewed up a simple 1 gallon recipe with DME to pitch the glass into. I'm really looking forward to seeing how it comes out. I was aiming for a kind of simple belgian golden ale to highlight the yeast flavors without overwhelming them with anything else. Here is what it was:

OG 1.062
IBU 27

1 lb. light DME
0.25 lb. wheat DME
0.125 lb. table sugar

0.3 oz. New Zealand Hallertau (8.6%) 20 min

This is exciting!

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Kool - I'm hoping mine clears well once it hits the fridge. I used a lot of wheat though. Cloudy is OK. I know it tastes good!

Sorry still a bit confused. Do you leave the wort totally uncovered for 2 weeks or just for an hour or two and it takes two weeks to build up enough yeast? Or do you leave it open and just covered with a cheesecloth for 2 weeks?

Do you leave it outside or inside?

Yeastie - I believe there are two methods being tried out here. You need to have that in mind when reading the posts

I did my yeast collection on DME Agar for about 4hrs. Then stored it inside and let grow then made 3 incremental starters 25ml, 150ml, 1000ml

KingBrianI - Did his with a small starter for several days outside. (I think)

It appears like both methods yield promising results.

I personally like the agar method since I can see surface growth. That could be good or bad growth. I can identify mold on a slant and abort the idea of making a potentially bad batch of beer. Just watching the yeast grow had a coolness factor.

After that I can inoculate a starter or collect samples for cold storage. I believe collecting yeast and not mold might be harder to do when it gets warmer. I will be able to replicate this yeast at any time now.

KingBrianI can also do a yeast wash after the primary and save his yeast too.

I culture yeast so you can see why I went this route.

I actually just left some wort from another batch sitting in a pint glass in my kitchen overnight. The next day I covered it with aluminum foil. It took a week or so but finally you could see yeast activity and the smell went from funky to estery. I think I got lucky in not growing mold but it's worth trying, if all it takes is a few ounces of wort from a batch you already made.

As a side note, I bottled mine the other day and washed and stored the yeast. The bottles seem to be carbing up quickly, the beer has gone from clear to cloudy so I'm guessing the yeast is chowing down in there. If any of my 999 recipients frequent this thread, you'll be getting a bottle in the swap. It'll be interesting to hear feedback.

I live in the big quite polluted city of hong kong....would the wild yeasts come with any nasty toxins???

I think you could get normal biological stuff. I imagine if its fairly hot or humid it might be challenging to yeast without getting mold. I've only did this once and I don't know your weather that well.

I think makers of lambics & sours need to collect yeast before it gets too hot.

I may be wrong. Traditionally, I think wild brewing seasons are in the spring and fall throughout brewing cultures in Europe. Don't know about Asia. Think of where there is good history and tradition, these areas have moderately cool to cold weather patterrns. England, Germany, Austria, Northern France, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Holland and Belguim.

Are Hong Kong nights cool?

xhmko said:

I live in the big quite polluted city of hong kong....would the wild yeasts come with any nasty toxins???

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The thing is the wild yeast would have adapted to live with all that polution. I swear the wild yeast I captured one winter had a note of road slush in the smell. Does hong kong smell nice?

Do you have any relatives out in the country?

Okay, it looks like I have some non-mold action going on, which is a good thing. However, I am not sure what is the next step.

It doesn't look like mold, but there are clearly bubbles on the top. Smells funky/sour.

Is there a way to tell if this is bacteria or yeast? How should I go from here? Make a full sized starter and transfer to that? Any suggestions?

I am excited to have something going on here.

Here is a pic compared to my control, which I never left out for an exposure.

A few days back I put some plates around to see if I could collect anything. Just checked and I see a few spots of mold on 2 of them and all 3 are showing some growth.

Before the mold takes over the whole plate I think I'll transfer some of the colonies to new plates.

Really wish I had a microscope

Bokonon said:

A few days back I put some plates around to see if I could collect anything. Just checked and I see a few spots of mold on 2 of them and all 3 are showing some growth.

Before the mold takes over the whole plate I think I'll transfer some of the colonies to new plates.

Really wish I had a microscope

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Good Idea!!! :rockin:

9/9 said:

Okay, it looks like I have some non-mold action going on, which is a good thing. However, I am not sure what is the next step.

It doesn't look like mold, but there are clearly bubbles on the top. Smells funky/sour.

Is there a way to tell if this is bacteria or yeast? How should I go from here? Make a full sized starter and transfer to that? Any suggestions?

I am excited to have something going on here.

Here is a pic compared to my control, which I never left out for an exposure.

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Yes! Move it to a starter covered with foil or a foam plug. If you have a stir plate use it! After that give ~ 1-2 weeks give it a smell, look and taste.

The next step is a small batch.

Cool. I will get the starter going tomorrow.

Any way to know if it is yeast or bacteria?

9/9 said:

Cool. I will get the starter going tomorrow.

Any way to know if it is yeast or bacteria?

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It can be either enterobacter or yeast this at this point. Smell and taste are the best indicators. The enterobacter will smell like cooked veges or fecal. The yeast could be estery like brewing yeasts. The entero will create souring acids and the yeast might be fruity tasting. This is hard to be certain.

Be advised I have only done this once and have just starting reading about wild ferments.

FYI - Entorobacter will be eventually be overtaken by yeast, provided you got some in your sample. According to what I have read, this always happens, this bacteria is the most quickly adaptable. The yeast generally out paces it within 5-7 days.

Thanks, I appreciate the info and advice.

I will just have to see what happens.

9/9 said:

Thanks, I appreciate the info and advice.

I will just have to see what happens.

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I failed to say its probably both.

Schlenkerla said:

Yes! Move it to a starter covered with foil or a foam plug.

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Is there any reason for doing this instead of a stopper+airlock?

ericd said:

Is there any reason for doing this instead of a stopper+airlock?

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I have always been told so it can take in air. I think this is especially true on a stir plate.

After reading through Wild Brews, it has me thinking... Lowering the pH of the plates using acid should skew things in our favor here. I'm not sure what effect an acid pH would have on mold... which is my biggest problem... but if we started with a pH of ~4 rather than 5, the bacterial growth would be suppressed.

Saccharomyces said:

After reading through Wild Brews, it has me thinking... Lowering the pH of the plates using acid should skew things in our favor here. I'm not sure what effect an acid pH would have on mold... which is my biggest problem... but if we started with a pH of ~4 rather than 5, the bacterial growth would be suppressed.

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I think that is good. Would you add lactic acid or use hop oil?

What about acid blend?

ericd said:

What about acid blend?

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That too.........

What type of agar are you using - for those using agar. I know there is potato starch agar that is supposed to be really good for growing yeast, but was wondering your preference. Not sure the difference from other agar. Wonder if it is the pH or something else in the grow medium.

maztec said:

What type of agar are you using - for those using agar. I know there is potato starch agar that is supposed to be really good for growing yeast, but was wondering your preference. Not sure the difference from other agar. Wonder if it is the pH or something else in the grow medium.

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I just used agar that I got from a Chinese grocery store. Its not the powdered type, its the stringy stuff.

Package says "agar-agar"

Update: My starter seemed to go pretty much like other starters I have done (though I haven't done many). There was a small krausen on top, but at this point it is just still on top and a layer of sediment on the bottom.

With a normal starter, I would be pitching now. With this, is it okay to just leave the starter be for a while? I assume I don't need to feed it or anything?

I don't have much experience with liquid yeast, so sorry if the questions seem basic. I look forward to seeing if this actually works with a test batch soon!

9/9: There is a whole timing thing. I don't have the charts in front of me, but they have been explained on the forum repeatedly - I think even in this thread - and are available elsewhere on the net. The period of time helps determine which beasty is in your starter. And, the answer on the time should help you know how long you can leave it, what you have to feed it, etc. I am fairly certain there is another beasty after the yeast stage, but I do not recall what it is.

One option, if it is to the yeast stage, is to pour it off, filter it, and create test tube cultures for refinement and later usage.

Otherwise, my understanding is you can let it go as long as 8 days, but you may have to refeed it before you pitch it.

maztec said:

9/9: There is a whole timing thing. I don't have the charts in front of me, but they have been explained on the forum repeatedly - I think even in this thread - and are available elsewhere on the net. The period of time helps determine which beasty is in your starter. And, the answer on the time should help you know how long you can leave it, what you have to feed it, etc. I am fairly certain there is another beasty after the yeast stage, but I do not recall what it is.

One option, if it is to the yeast stage, is to pour it off, filter it, and create test tube cultures for refinement and later usage.

Otherwise, my understanding is you can let it go as long as 8 days, but you may have to refeed it before you pitch it.

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Maztec: Thanks, but I guess I just need to read up more on yeast washing and the like. Clearly people keep yeast for a lot longer than 8 days. But, I guess I don't know what those people do.

Off to put the search function to good use, I suppose.

9/9: I think at the very beginning of this thread there was someone who posted a link to a site that had a lot of information on yeast and yeast washing and what to do with it. I recommend looking back for that. I could swear it is in the first four pages...

9/9 said:

Clearly people keep yeast for a lot longer than 8 days. But, I guess I don't know what those people do.

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If I've understood this correctly, I think there's a slight difference between what you're doing, compared to the majority of yeast wranglers. They generally have a single strain of yeast, such as the stuff you can buy from your LHBS, which can be kept for weeks (or even longer) and it'll still be viable. If the yeast have eaten all the sugar available, then they'll eventually go dormant, until they're roused at a future date. But what's different in your case is that no-one really knows what yeasts and bacteria you have in your little sample, and in all probability you have multiple different kinds of tiny beast in there. So if some beer-friendly yeast in your sample eats up all the available sugar, then when they go dormant, they may then be out-competed by another strain of microbe that can eat the unfermentable sugar left behind. So in short, the most active strain of tiny creature in your wild sample can change according to how long you wait, and if you wait for a long time, you may not end up with a beer-friendly yeast.

That's what I think happens, anyway, based on my reading of this thread. Hopefully if that's wrong someone will be along to set me right

From the very first post in this thread:

How long you leave it out will affect what you get. If you use it right after you first start seeing signs of life (2 weeks) you will just get wild yeast. Leave it out longer and you will get other things in it. This is what happens (from Lambic by Guinard):

(3 to 7 days) Enteric Bacteria and Kloeckera Apiculata
(2 weeks) Saccharomyces
(3 to 4 months) Lactic Acid Bacteria
(8 months) Brettanomyces plus Pichia, Candida, Hansenula and Cryptococcus

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That should answer how long you can leave something sitting around.