hops - how old is old?

Starting to think about brewing a lambic sometime. Right now, the limiting factor in how soon I can brew it is aging the hops. Now, I'm in no rush - I have plenty to things to brew - but just how aged are we talking?

it isnt necessary unless you are doing a spontaneous ferment, which id guess you werent

this is becasue with spontaneous ferments you need large amounts of hops to prevent bad nasties from taking over while letting the good nasties make a great lambic, since you are probably pitching a blend you dont need large amounts to protect the beer, so bitter with any hop to ~10IBU and your good to go

also, pitch the blend to start off, no need to do a clean yeast then blend, and if you do it will actually result in a beer that is far less sour/funky, its also a good idea to add dregs of commercial sours to yours to increase complexity

For a lambic regarding hops, age really isn't a concern. Go ahead and brew with hops that are a few years old because you aren't after the bittering qualities of hops. I had hops that are 2-3 years old that I used in a lambic.

avidhomebrewer said:

For a lambic regarding hops, age really isn't a concern. Go ahead and brew with hops that are a few years old because you aren't after the bittering qualities of hops. I had hops that are 2-3 years old that I used in a lambic.

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I guess my question isn't really "how old is too old", but more "how old is old enough"? (hops, people....I'm talking about hops)

Is ryane's statement above concerning spontaneous fermentation and hops the consensus?

JLem said:

Is ryane's statement above concerning spontaneous fermentation and hops the consensus?

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Yup.

They're only necessary if you're doing a true wild/spontaneous fermentation and need lots of old (debittered) hops to keep any uninvited guests like lactobacillus out of your beer.

"too old" for a wet hopped IPA is (what?) 3 weeks old.
"too old" for a belgian is closer to 4 years old.
(Doesn't Chimay use 3yr old hops?)

many lambic recipes call for long boils which will also boil off alot of bittering hop flavor. use saaz or any lower end alpha acids and don't add a finishing hop addition. that said, no aging is necessary

You can also bake some hops for a few hours at 250ish to "speed age" them.

I just did an experimental batch with some 2006 first gold hops I found very cheap online. They smelled a little cheesy but gave the wort far more of a bitter flavor than I expected them to.

Thanks all for the replies. Not sure when I am going to venture into this brew, but you've given me a lot of things to think about. I may check out the local natural health store and see if they have any hops laying around. I also haven't yet checked with my LHBS - the guy there may have some as well.

I've heard mixed reviews about using the oven to speed up the aging process. If I can't find any already aged, I'll probably go with just a small dose of low alpha variety.

I oven aged some hops for a lambic, tasted it ~ 1 month ago to see if I had vinegar...

sour - absolutely zero hop presence.. and I baked and use 8oz of 1 year old, home grown centenial - yes, centenial - in 10 gallons.

Does anyone have old hops they'de be willing to trade/sell? When you add the wort to the fermentor,pitch the microbes, do you plug the fermentor with a capper and airlock? What do you all think abotu jamil's recipe for a Lambic in his book Brweing Classic Styles? I woudl like to brew a replicate of Peche lambic by Lindermans. Any other suggestions?

Thanks

I have a few OZ of 2006 first gold hops if you're interested. They smell sorta cheesey.

Dan,

I am interested in them. What would you want in return? Fresh hops of which I have Columbus, Chinook, Amarillo, Cascade, Willamette, Vangaurd, Crystal, I may have another but can't recall and all are vacu-sealed and stored in the freezer until use. Money? Let me know.

Thanks!
John

You don't necessarily need to use aged hops either. Try Cantillon Iris sometime. The hop presence in that beer is different from most traditional lambic, but very delicious!

I had a rant typed out, but then I re-read the thread and realized that perhaps a key point hasn't been explicitly spelled out.

Great Truths for Hops & Lambics:
1) Lambic-style beers generally do not exhibit much bitterness.
2) Hops have antiseptic properties that inhibit lactobacillus (and other unwanted microbe) growth.
3) Lambic brewers who were using spontaneous fermentations found that using lots of old hops boiled for a LONG time did a good job of inhibiting lactobacillus growth without contributing much bitterness or flavor. (I can't find a reference now, but I think they typically use like 3-5oz of aged hops per 5 gallons and boiled for up to 6 hours)

Great Truths for Homebrewed pLambics:
1) You're probably going to use a commercial culture inoculation, not a spontaneous ferment.
2) Since you're using a "controlled" fermentation (not a spontaneous one), you don't really need the same antiseptic properties from the hops. WYeast and WL have done this work for you already by preferentially selecting the relative population sizes of the microbes in the blends.

So, you have basic 3 options:
1) Use some crappy old hops that you've got laying around (lambics are a good use for your old hops).
2) Go to extreme lengths to obtain or artificially create lots of aged hops.
3) Just use an oz of low alpha-acid hops boiled for 60-90 minutes.

For my money and time, I'm going with option 1 or 3 and leaving option 2 for someone else. I personally think there are far more important variables in pLambic production worthy of effort than the hops.